Engine failures

[Gary Slahor]

Lawrence,
I do check oil levels several times over the weeknd, just to make sure I never see anything but solid oil in the site glass...at elevated revs. In fact I even added ANOTHER 1/2 qt to the sump to see if it would help the dips...but it didn't. Bearings were fresh at the beginning of the season, but maybe after 4 races they're getting loose. Probably time for a refresh.

[LLoshak]

Ok Gary, just didnt want you to run underfilled.

If adding another 1/2qt didnt make any difference, these dips you are talking about are not starvation dips.

I'd run Amsoil 20/50 motorcycle oil to try to get those numbers up. And if it is just loosening up, the thicker oil will help. I'd also swap out your relief valve with a different one, it maybe the cause. A O/D gear should move the lower rpm dips to even a lower rpm and might be a good idea too. At least go with some thicker oil and a different relief valve.

[Ivinsea]

Bearings were fresh at the beginning of the season, but maybe after 4 races they're getting loose. Probably time for a refresh.

Gary - do you replace the rod & main bearings? Stock sizes?

If I see some OP dips, I'd prefer to replace some bearings rather than blow it up.

Thanks.

Ivin
08 Stohr FB

[VehDyn]

Gary - do you replace the rod & main bearings? Stock sizes?

If I see some OP dips, I'd prefer to replace some bearings rather than blow it up.

Thanks.

Ivin
08 Stohr FB

Ask on the DSR forum what their interval for replacement is. I don't think it is very common.

[Rick Ross]

Gary - do you replace the rod & main bearings? Stock sizes?

I thought that the FB rules allowed only stock engine internals, including bearings, rod bolts, etc. Is this correct?

[rickjohnson356]

I would think that the crank/rods could be ground to -10 or -20, so that appropriate non-stock sized bearings could be used, just the 'stock' material. no exotic bearing material.

just a guess on my part, though

[HastyHorn]

The typical Japanese motorcycle engine is delivered with "sized" bearing inserts. When manufactured the cases and the crankshafts are measured and marked accordingly and the appropriate bearings are selected. Thus the facory offers slightly larger bearings (and smaller) and one selects the correct bearing by measuring clearance with plastigage.

In actual practice if the clearance has become too great it is the result of material being removed from the bearing (not good), however, if the crank surface is acceptable the usual practice of replacing the bearings with identically sized replacements will bring the clearance back to normal.

There is a standard method of "reading" the case markings and the crank markings and using the factory manual subtracting one from another the appropriate bearing is indicated. This same method is used for rod selection as well. The rods (without bearings but assembled) are measured and the bore is indicated on the side of the rod (usually in ink). The crank has stamped numbers in the crank indicating its size at a particular journal. Subtract one number from the other and you get a color (yep, a color) indicating, for example, that blue inserts are used at that particular combination of rod and journal. They mark the bearing inserts on the edge with a colored dye so one can know the bearing thickness.

It's a rather clever system that does allow one to select a thicker or thinner bearing if you decided to tighten up clearances. The variation between thickest to thinest is not very large so if you screw up a journal and expect to grind out the imperfections you will have taken enough meat off the journal to take it outside the standard bearing variations.

Regardless, bearing replacement wouldn't violate the letter or the spirit of the stock FB rule, it would just be good maintenance.

Hasty Horn

[LLoshak]

Among getting ready for the runoffs, we found enough time to get these done.

They were completly drawn up and then laser cut to make a complete drop in replacment. The area that is for the pick up box, actually has vertical planes that were bent up, to provide strength and to avoid warping during welding. We also made the plate out of thicker material, the results are fantastic.

8 plates in stock, ready to ship. Can also be used as a template on how much to slot the bolt holes on your oil pan.

[Wright D]

Phoenix Race Works has revised pans with the internals rotated 180 deg.(trap doors, pick up, and baffle plate) ready to ship.
The new wet sump system sells $750 and includes a new pan, baffle plate, and pick up ready to bolt right on.

[urbanimports02]

BRD will also be offering new wet sump kits. they are usual BRD quality machining and include an all billet aluminum pickup tube with properly sealed filter screen, pan, baffle, and all hardware. we will be finishing machining a few early next week, and they will be going for $650. this system takes a little different approach then the 180 pans, and is gauranteed(literally money back gauranteed) to fix the pressure dips, and uses knowledge and data gained from moded wet sump testing, and dry sump development to improve on the slight peak pressure loss seen with other systems. this is a great alternative to dry sump for those that are budget minded, or chasing every last pound.

for those interested in the data from the new BRD dry sump, we finally found the silver bullet for peak pressure with dry sump. it is a simple engine mod that is inexpensive or free if you have the right tools(most will) george stumbled upon it accidentily, and both West cars are running this system at the runoffs and Eric reports solid oil pressures with peak pressure steady in the 70-75psi range at full operating temp! and that is with stock 05-06 oil pumps(smaller then 07-08)! this is a great option for those that want ultimate piece of mind and restored power lost with clutch and other components running in an oil bath with wet sumps. plus the new gear driven setup reduces weight gain associated with dry sump. the new West is weighing in around 780lbs dry sumped! for more info on either system, contact Jesse at BRD @ 503-810-9755

[LLoshak]

Next batch going into production!

First 4 going to:

Mike Devins
Jay Novak
Brandon Dixon
Dan Robinson

Many asked for one at the runoffs, if your name isnt on the list above please email me ASAP!

For those of you who already have a wet sump pan, heres your option to buying a complete replacment.

P/U: $150
Lid: $125
Pan mods: $75
relief valve collar: $25

+SHIPPING

I no longer need anything sent in UNLESS you would like us to do the bolt hole modifications & drain plug relocation, via our CNC, to your existing oil pan. Get it to me by Monday, have it back by the weekend.

BTW, these parts have been succesfully tested on 6 different sports racers/f1000's with 6 happy customers. We are now beyond the testing stage.


Thanks,

Lawrence Loshak
LLatENGINETRANSdotCOM

[Northwind]

For those of you that are going to attempt to do the milling of the oil pan yourself.

Off-setting the bolt hole is not a problem. Off-setting the hole for the bolt head can give you a thin wall condition or worse a hole to the inside of the oil pan. BE CAREFULL WITH YOUR MACHINING.

A trip to the aluminum welder is next on my list.

[Don Conner]

To the problem of an oil pressure drop under braking. In Loshak's case I have to assume this is with the full blown "moist-sump" system. Still having a pressure drop seems odd since you'd rule out a pickup issue (fed from external tank to pressure pump) except I'm curious where the tank is located. The only reasons that seem plausible would be a change in the crankcase pressure (anyone measuring this?) showing up on the oil system or getting back to the location of the tank if it's forward of the pump?, under braking the oil in the feed line would be working against the pump, seems unlikely that it could cause much of a drop but if simply feeding the stock pump from a remote tank causes a pressure loss it might be a factor. I'm sort of new to this bike engine stuff but have co-designed an FB car which we ran for the first time recently, so I'm trying to get ahead of any problems.

Don Conner
JDRmotorsport.com