Tire Mounting and Balancing

[Tom Valet]

Anyone mounting and balancing their own race tires? What are you using? I am getting tired of paying $20 per tire for mounting and balancing.

When we raced karts I got good enough that I could mount and remove tires solely with my hands without any tools (other than a bead breaker). Last weekend I tried to dismount some old FF tires by hand using pry bars and screw drivers but they were not coming off. Some of them I couldnt even get the bead broken much less off the rim.

So where can I find an economical bead breaker/mounting tool and a hand wheel balancer?

Thanks

Tom

[Tom Sprecher]

Look for another tire shop because I pay $12 per.

[stonebridge20]

Tom, This should get you started. I will now bring all my tires to you and you can change them for a buck a piece! Oh,...And balance them also!

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...atchallpartial

[SteveG]

This...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=34542

and this...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=39741

If you watch the Harbor Freight ads, these go "on sale" quite often.

Use to take me about 45 minutes to unmount and mount a set of FF tires.

Steve

[JHaydon]

Tom, I tried to help mount a set of FF tires a couple of weeks ago with a hand machine. All I can say is NEVER AGAIN. Two of us (the other guy has much more experience with race tires than I do, but I've mounted street tires before) had to use two prybars and a mallet in addition to the "proper" prying tool. We nearly broke the machine.

I'll gladly pay $20 a tire not to go through that again.

[formulasuper]

Anyone mounting and balancing their own race tires? What are you using? I am getting tired of paying $20 per tire for mounting and balancing.

When we raced karts I got good enough that I could mount and remove tires solely with my hands without any tools (other than a bead breaker). Last weekend I tried to dismount some old FF tires by hand using pry bars and screw drivers but they were not coming off. Some of them I couldnt even get the bead broken much less off the rim.

So where can I find an economical bead breaker/mounting tool and a hand wheel balancer?

Thanks

Tom

Tom, I know this isn't what you wanted to hear but I've always mounted & computer spin balanced my free, used, hand-me-down tires for free at my recently retired from company's auto hobby shop. Being the SEDIV's #1 "King of Cheap" it helps me hold this title! (Beat that Purple Frog) Actually it does cost me a $20/yr membership fee but it does include all the stick-on weights & valve stems I can use. (This is about the only good bennie I got from the company.)

[Gary Slahor]

Tom,

As another former kart racer turned formula car guy, I built myself scaled up versions of the kart bead breaker and static balancer. They work great, and I now mount and balance all my own formula car tires. Arguments could be made that static balancing is not as good as spin balancing, but I place the balancing weights on the inside of the rim, near the centerline of the tire to minimize dynamic effects, and have not noticed any vibrations at high speed.

I could email you pictures of my home made devices, if you are interested.

Gary

[sccadsr31]

[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]Tom,[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]I mount and balance my own tires with an old manual machine from a gas station, (I'll get a picture in a couple of days) and use a Sears bubble balancer. I can dismount and mount 4 tires in less than an hour. Balancing takes another 30 minutes. I have had them checked on the dynamic machines and they are good enough to run on my DSR.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]It takes some learning but is fairly easy after you develop a technique. About half a dozen local racers regularly come to my shop to use it, DSR, FV, GT1, HP for example. There is one tool for breaking the bead and another to remove the tire and the opposite end of the tool is used to install. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]David[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[Tom Valet]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I think a winter project for my sons will be to build a breaker/mounting tool.

Look for another tire shop because I pay $12 per.

Tom, $20 is what both the NE Hoosier and Goodyear guys charge at the track (plus another $10 per if you want them to discard the old tires). I can get my local garage to mount tires for less, but they cant get the FF rears on their balancer.

Tom, This should get you started. I will now bring all my tires to you and you can change them for a buck a piece! Oh,...And balance them also!

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...atchallpartial

Thanks Mike. I ordered the deluxe model. At $1 per tire I'll only have to mount 11,999 tires to break even.

[Tom Valet]

Tom,

As another former kart racer turned formula car guy, I built myself scaled up versions of the kart bead breaker and static balancer. They work great, and I now mount and balance all my own formula car tires. Arguments could be made that static balancing is not as good as spin balancing, but I place the balancing weights on the inside of the rim, near the centerline of the tire to minimize dynamic effects, and have not noticed any vibrations at high speed.

I could email you pictures of my home made devices, if you are interested.

Gary

Gary, if it's not too much trouble I think I will take you up on your offer to send pictures of your home made tools. This will definitely be a good winter project to make our own. Thanks very much for the kind offer.

Tom

[Brian]

The manual tire changer that actually works is the Roger Kraus machine seen here:

http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/RKR/tiremachine.shtml

I use a Harbour Freight (actually Princess Auto, being Canadian, eh) machine, with the bead breaker heavily modified to not bend all over the place like a wet noodle, and a Kraus bar, with a HF bubble balancer. The bar supplied with the HF machine doesn't work well at all to pop the beads on and off compared to the Kraus bar, which comes with plastic covers to protect your virgin rims.

Dunlop FFord tires kind of fall on and off, they are so easy. Formula Atlantic tires, I would pay a lot more than $20 to get someone else to do Atlantic rears...I average 2 hours a tire. FFord slicks, the rears are a bitch because they are so cantilevered.

Brian

[Paul LeCain]

I use and recommend the Roger Kraus bead breaker and balancer.

Atlantic tires are pretty easy. The cantilevered FF tires are definitely not easy.

[EACIII]

I have a Habor Frieght balancer I got for $39 including shipping. Not sure how they can make that in China, ship it across an ocean and deliver it to my house for that, but they did. You can easly mount FF tires with it with a little practice. After you do a few sets you will get the hang of it. I use another flat bar to keep the other side of the tire from coming off as I spin the handle around. Oh and you have to mount it to something solid. But I rarely do my own tires as time to work on the car is my problem. The $20 a tire is more then worth it to me. (Oh but I do take my old ones home as I can't see paying for that - anyone need 40 or 50 used FF tires, Goodyears, Hoosiers and I think I may still have some Firestones)


Ed

[M.Sauce]

There is a concept out there you might consider, support the vendors that support your racing.I am the SW Division Goodyear dealer and I work on very thin margins and if I don't get any labor from mounting and balancing I loose money.What if no vendor showed up at the race because they were not making any money?Most vendors don't consider supporting SCCA or NASA weekends as part of their hobby.Just a comment from someone who knows both sides of the story.By the way I too race on a very small budget.Think about the contingencies that Goodyear and Hoosier offer as well.

[hardkorre]

try this,

http://www.nomar-secure.com/category_s/1.htm

there's actually a video on that site of someone changing ff tires!.................

http://www.nomartirechanger.com/video/show/32

[Trhoades]

I also have been looking for a cheaper means of changing. You can find some good buys on machines on sbay at times...Todd

[Bob Coury]

I purchased the Habor Freight 39.00 unit, added some delrin to reduce scratching. Made my own balancer which was basically a mounting the wheel on a shaft that rotates on roller skate bearings. Heavy side always ends up at the bottom.

[steve zemke]

I use a Coats 10-10 machine. They, and later, newer models are avilable on Ebay, Craig's list, and in most local newspapers. I paid less than $100 for mine. Made two static balancers. One vertical and one horizontal. Both work about the same. All you need for them is a lathe, and some time. Static balancing has always been fine for me.

[Tom Valet]

There is a concept out there you might consider, support the vendors that support your racing.I am the SW Division Goodyear dealer and I work on very thin margins and if I don't get any labor from mounting and balancing I loose money.What if no vendor showed up at the race because they were not making any money?Most vendors don't consider supporting SCCA or NASA weekends as part of their hobby.Just a comment from someone who knows both sides of the story.By the way I too race on a very small budget.Think about the contingencies that Goodyear and Hoosier offer as well.

Mike, I see your point and frankly hadnt thought of it from that perspective. At the same time, I feel like $20 per tire is really pushing it. What does it take them, half an hour to do all four? If they charged a reasonable rate I wouldnt complain. But add that on top of the already crazy prices they charge for the tires and it gets out of hand (yes, I know the dealers only see a fraction of the cost of the tires, but it is still coming out of my pocket). But you do raise a good point.

[Keith Carter]

We had the Harbor Freight and the bead breaker bent on the second use. We welded in a brace, but it still seem the geometry was wrong for proper bead braking. We have been using the Kraus setup for several years now and we have a system that allows us to change a set of tires in about 25 minutes. It has paid for itself many many times over... We also use the bubble balancer in the first link.

[Alan Oppel]

Manual labor is not a spanish farmer. Bustin tires for a living is a tough way of life. I can not charge enough to do that for a customer. That said, I do hand mount, and balance my own tires, even cutting my own intermediate/rains. As a welder/fabricator, I made my own version of the 'krause' machine, incorporating both halves of the coats model 1010 tire bead tool to separate ends of a 4" bar for stripping/mounting. Finesse is still required, as most volunteers to use a hand machine can attest. If you are a doctor, or other professional who values dexterity, have them mounted at the track. If you are the 'mud, blood and beer' kind, no liability implied or consented to use my machine. I just might leave the lights on if you are out there late. Alan

[Rick Kirchner]

I have the HF manual machine. To make it useful, weld it to a LONG piece of trailer hitch tubing and then you can attach it to your truck hitch. That solves the "how do I mont this?" problem. To make the geometry better, weld a piece of pipe that's roughly the diameter of your wheel center at the right distance from the shoe. Then the wheel won't scoot off, the cheezy HF tire stop won't screw up your wheels, and the tire will stay in the right place.

[Roux]

Tom,

I have for years mounted my own tires with the cheap HF tool. I modified the breaker part to stop it from bending. If you want to come by one evening or weekend and play with it to see if it works for you, stop by. on your way to or from Limerock perhaps?

In general the tires are easy to mount. Front or rear with only two exceptions

The only tires I ever had a bad time with were:

GY r600 FRONTS. They don't make them any more, and the 160's have softer sidewalls

Hankook radials for the 2007 season in Quebec. Since then they do Dunlops, so no issue

[stephen wilson]

I use the Kraus machine. It became much easier after I made a hub-sized wood spacer about 10" long to get the tire up off of the table. Without this spacer I could never get the cantilevered rears mounted because the center clamp would push the tire into the table, and away from the rim. With that, and the proper technique, the tires pop on and off very easily (including GY 600's!).
Steve

[Evl]

I have for years mounted my own tires with the cheap HF tool.

Any tips for keeping the bar from scratching the heck out of powder coated rims? I used to use the HF tool on bare Al wheels w/ no problem (and liked being self-sufficient), but gave up when I saw what it was doing to my new rims.

[Brian]

get the Kraus bar and the vinyl covers. They work pretty good, and the bar is far better than the HF bar.

The covers don't fit the HF bar, btw.

Brian

[Captain]

Anyone have any tips to do this with a more lower profile tire?

I have tried several times to mount a FV tire. I just can't get that last part of the tire to pop on! Maybe a tool recomdation? I have been using the HF bar (works great on regular car tires). Also have tried some smaller dirtbike tire style spoons with no luck.

I can take them off fairly easily though.


Thanks
Jim

[Greg O'dell]

Rim Protection,

Back when I used to change my own, I found a circular "drum" clamp of the correct diameter, that keeps the lids attached to either cardboard drums or even metal drums and would clamp them on my rims. Once the bead was broken, you can then clamp this on your rim and let the bars ride on them as you take the tire off. They are circular in nature and have a half round shape that will fit and stay on our rims. This way your bar actually never touches your rim but rides on the clamp itself. Just my two cents worth, Greg.

[DaveB]

We bought one of these several years back, they were retailing for $850 at the time freight was $125 it works Great! I sure wish these Chinese tire machines would have been available when I started racing. I should be able to sell it when I get out of racing for what I paid for it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Tire-...mZ110303293969

Dave

[steve zemke]

Any tips for keeping the bar from scratching the heck out of powder coated rims? I used to use the HF tool on bare Al wheels w/ no problem (and liked being self-sufficient), but gave up when I saw what it was doing to my new rims.

Polish the bar. When I first started doing my own, the used bar I had was worn and gouged. Used a file, sandpaper and then Scotchbrite to polish it. No more damage.

[sccadsr31]

Evl wrote

Any tips for keeping the bar from scratching the heck out of powder coated rims?

JR Osborne had a wheel center break at the runoffs, the reason was powder coating.

David

[steve zemke]

Evl wrote


JR Osborne had a wheel center break at the runoffs, the reason was powder coating.

David

How did you come to that conclusion. I do not understand how Powder Coating can lead to failure. Thanks in advance for sharing your learnings.

[steve zemke]

Anyone have any tips to do this with a more lower profile tire?

I have tried several times to mount a FV tire. I just can't get that last part of the tire to pop on! Maybe a tool recomdation? I have been using the HF bar (works great on regular car tires). Also have tried some smaller dirtbike tire style spoons with no luck.

I can take them off fairly easily though.


Thanks
Jim

Are you doing one side at a time or both at once? I never had a problem. Use lots of lube, preferably not water based. What type of Vee rim adaptor are you using?

[stephen wilson]

When trying to pop that last bit of bead, is the bead on the opposite side in the deepest part of the rim center?

[Captain]

I have a home made "fixture" that holds the wheel in place. Not the nicest part (plate welded together) but it holds it in place.

I have been using soap and water, is there something better?

Yep, I push down on the oppsite side of the tire.

[Revs2-12k]

I have a Habor Frieght balancer I got for $39 including shipping. Not sure how they can make that in China, ship it across an ocean and deliver it to my house for that, but they did. Ed

I recently bought the Harbor Freight machine and had a good friend who races Spec Miatas teach me how to use it properly. He noticed the Chinese strengthened & improved the bar. Although the bead breaker is flimsy.

Count up all of the tires you own, you'll be surprised!

[steve zemke]

I have a home made "fixture" that holds the wheel in place. Not the nicest part (plate welded together) but it holds it in place.

I have been using soap and water, is there something better?

Yep, I push down on the oppsite side of the tire.

You do not necessarily want to push down on the tire bead. You want to push it towards the center of the rim ,at the rim's deepest part. You need to get below the bead lip. Have you tried mounting from the back side?

Yes, there are better solutions than soap and water. There are some glycol based product that are very slippery. Water usually ends up inside the tires and adds much moisture to the tire atmosphere. Main reason for tire pressure increase as tire warms up.

[stephen wilson]

At the possibility of sounding stupid (not a first for me!), I just use a little WD40 on the bead for mounting, carefull not to get it on the "tread".

[EACIII]

I would be carefull using WD-40 as it can lead to letting the tire spin on the rim. I know not all are cars have big HP, but it happens.

Ed

[Garey Guzman]

Yes, there are better solutions than soap and water. There are some glycol based product that are very slippery. Water usually ends up inside the tires and adds much moisture to the tire atmosphere. Main reason for tire pressure increase as tire warms up.

Steve,
Please share the names of these products! I got some equipment from work that they were going to throw out and I've never liked using soapy water because of the reason you mentioned. But it's all I've ever seen people use (I don't usually stand and watch my race tires get mounted)

I would be carefull using WD-40 as it can lead to letting the tire spin on the rim. I know not all are cars have big HP, but it happens.

On smaller cars, I think it typically happens under braking. For FA tires, one guy said they only install them dry because of this.