New Van Diemen

[Blair Robertshaw]

Hello all,

Recently I was told that Van Diemen is going to make a purpose built FB or F1000 turn key package! To be released next spring!

Has anyone heard the same? or have any confirmation on such an undertaking?

Respectfully,

Blair Robertshaw

[RussMcB]

Yes, I've heard it, too, from someone who is supplying dry sump systems to them.

[Blair Robertshaw]

Russ, did you hear the same release target of spring '09?

[RussMcB]

I got the impression that they were pretty far along. I think the number of dry sump systems was a dozen or more, and they may have already been delivered. The engines will be Suzukis.

I would not consider myself a reliable source, but it certainly sounded believable.

[Nicholas Belling]

And let us all know what he says.

[Ivinsea]

Could you engineering types describe the differences required by an FB installation vs FC? Apparently Van Diemen 1998 & up conversions have been competitive with current "state of the art" factory FB's which is surprising to me.

Some quick thoughts:

Weight distribution/wheelbase/overall chassis weight
Engine/transmission compactness & packaging differences
Torque characteristics of 12,000 rpm & 180 hp vs 6500 rpm & 140 hp
6 speed vs. 4 speed
Fuel consumption
Braking load - speed & chassis weight - FB's are lighter but faster...
Cooling
Aero - does 180 hp FB need more downforce than FC?

I would think there are a zillion more subtle differences....

[Richard Dziak]

Russ and others:

With the present news that Van Dieman will be entering the F1000 or FB turnkey market, that will add a quality name to the class. I would assume it will be very difficult for other constructors to compete with a mass produced car and reputation as Van Diemen has had over the years. Van Dieman is certainly one of the most recognized names in formula built cars, and we should all welcome their entry into this class. I am sure the car will be state-of-the-art, in technology and design. I look forward to seeing the first draft or photos of the car. Perhaps if someone gets a first peek, they can post some photos for us all.

This new entry should be very interesting indeed. Especially if the car is priced right.

[ghickman]

Could you engineering types describe the differences required by an FB installation vs FC? Apparently Van Diemen 1998 & up conversions have been competitive with current "state of the art" factory FB's which is surprising to me.

Some quick thoughts:

Weight distribution/wheelbase/overall chassis weight
Engine/transmission compactness & packaging differences
Torque characteristics of 12,000 rpm & 180 hp vs 6500 rpm & 140 hp
6 speed vs. 4 speed
Fuel consumption
Braking load - speed & chassis weight - FB's are lighter but faster...
Cooling
Aero - does 180 hp FB need more downforce than FC?

I would think there are a zillion more subtle differences....

Ok..I'll make a stab at answering these questions. Keep in mind my views may be different than others. I just completed a "GROUND UP" from Scratch FB build. We used ZERO DONOR parts...and copied nothing.

My thoughts are that the VD conversions are a very sound investment. Buy a used FC, remove all the unwanted bits IE Gearbox etc... sell those off and use that $$$ to fund the conversion.

Other obvious advantages are parts stream is really good for the VD. Reasonable replacement cost when you crash the car or wear out parts.

Weight Distribution: proper conversion design will dictate this. The % will be the same as a FC just lower weight overall.

Torque: Having driven my car for the first time last week I was shocked at the torque it has. The car feels lighter than a FC and for sure has higher top speed. I wouldn't say it's a whole lot different coming off the corners though.

Gears more is better: the Motorcycle engines need more gears. Gives you a more favorable spread of gears...this helps since we're stuck with what came with the stock engine.

Braking Load: We opted for the biggest brakes we could put on the car without sacrificing weight. We used 4 pot calipers on all 4 corners. In my opinion the braking forces required on a FB are nearly identical to a contemporary FC.

Cooling: This is a problem area on the FB. The cooling system on a FC is too small for a FB. Largest contributor of the overheating problems in the FB is the "Under Hood" heat. There's little to no air flow passing over the headers to evacuate the heat from under the engine cover. When we designed our side pods we built an elaborate ducting system that takes BLEED AIR and routes it right into the engine compartment.

AERO FC vs FB: I personally don't believe a FB requires additional down force over a FC. If the mechanical grip is good no need to sacrifice straight line speed. Trick with a well designed FB is to keep the frontal area minimul and well designed side pods that can carry a large radiator and oil cooler with clever ducting.

Gary Hickman

[formulasuper]

"Trick with a well designed FB is to keep the frontal area minimul and well designed side pods that can carry a large radiator and oil cooler with clever ducting."

Gary Hickman

IMO Gary has hit the nail squarely on the head. From what I have seen in the last two years & from my 3 years experience with my Ralt RT5/SV conversion to Hayabusa power I believe the original FC sidepods are just too small to hold the larger radiator(s) required by the higher powered, front sided exhaust system engines. My Busa engine makes the same average 180 hp as the 1000cc engines & does so at the lower rpm of 10,500. I'm using the original larger SuperVee radiator (19"x12"x2") with the original large size Mocal oil cooler (11"x7.5"x2") and this setup appears to be "just" large enough to handle this amount of power. It would seem to me (I'm no engineer) that the 1000 cc engines would require at least as much cooling capacity since they are screaming another 3,000 rpm higher.

[VehDyn]

I think the conversions have done well for a number of reasons, but most importantly for two. 1)They are well developed race cars from a chassis and aero standpoint where some people have a lot of experience and seat time in them. 2) The nuts behind the wheel are pretty good too which is probably the most important variable.

Put hotshoes in all the different makes and it will be a battle every time. I think its great that there will be such variety of race cars in the near future.

Now if I just could afford to get mine to the track. Maybe I'll get one of those cool FEMA loans as a sponsor for 09.

[kropptool]

Gentlemen just to clear things up I have been working with Ralph Firman former owner of Van Diemen and David Baldwin designer, NOT Van Diemen Thank you, Larry Kropp

[kropptool]

Yes, I've heard it, too, from someone who is supplying dry sump systems to them.

gentlemen, Just to clear things up I have been working with Ralph firman former owner of Van Diemen and David Baldwin designer, NOT Van Diemen, they are just testing my new Suzuki GSXR 1000 dry sump. If anyone is interested in one my email is kropptool@netzero.net I am in the process of developing a dry sump for the Honda CBR 1000 engine Thank you Larry Kropp

[Sean Maisey]

Sign that the end of the world is nigh? Larry Kropp is posting on ApexSpeed.

Very cool, and good to see you here in our little community.

What are Mr. Baldwin and Firman's intentions re: US imports?

Best Regards,
Sean

P.S. for those of you who don't know Larry he is a F1000/DSR/CSR racer's best friend, and one hell of a machinist.

[RussMcB]

Sign that the end of the world is nigh? Larry Kropp is posting on ApexSpeed.

He probably heard that someone (me) was posting misinformation on the interweb.

Larry has been a big help to me during the last two years. I'm happy with my dry sump, and he's had Runoffs success with it, so I'm not surprised to hear about more systems.

[Blair Robertshaw]

found them

[ralph firman]

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Gentlemen,

I read with interest last week’s chat regarding a new F1000 car and was very pleased to read the enthusiasm of a new car into the market place. I would like to make the following comments:

1 I sold the Van Diemen Company in 1999 and resigned as a director in 2004. Since then I have worked on some other projects building some factories and houses. However, I realised there is nothing like building a car and spending one’s life working to improve a chassis to go round a black piece of tarmac a few tenths quicker.

2 Seeing the F1000 category begin to come to prominence in the US it began to appeal to me as an interesting car both from an engineering and cost point of view.

3 The regulations allow both aero and mechanical modern race car thinking. With the competition cars I have built over the years I have always maintained a generous development budget to gradually improve the car from year to year which I found keeps customers happy and interested in the class – F1000 meets this criteria.

4 David Baldwin agreed to design the car. From day one he had great enthusiasm both from the regulations and the fact he had a clean sheet with no compromise having to carry over parts from previous models. David was a Director and share holder of Van Diemen for thirty years and he designed almost all the competition cars which I built over the years.

5 We tested the car at Brands Hatch on Tuesday and it ran trouble free for 84 laps. Unfortunately, it was wet but at the end of the day the driver (Joey Foster) was very happy with the balance. We still have to finish off and if the diffuser and barge boards then conduct a 4 day test in France before shipping the car to the US for further tests.

6 I trust this clears up any confusion as to what Company has built an all new F1000 in conjunction with Larry and Sandy at Quicksilver on the engine side. The name of the car will be RFR and the Company will be Ralph Firman Racing. Should anyone require further information or are interested in buying a car you can contact me on ralphfman@aol.com or johnupr@gmail.com or jonbaytos@yahoo.com tel 727 289 7005

Ralph Firman
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