Edge Engineering FB

[ghickman]

Hi All
As promised here are some pictures of our newly completed Formula B. Just a few more items to complete before we leave for Willow Springs next Friday for our first test session. Note the rear shocks are exposed...bumps will be added to the rear of the engine cover to close them in. Will be adding the carbon fiber custom seat this week. Graphics will be added in vinyl next week.

13 months of hard work and lots of $$$. Glad we have our own machine shop to make all the bits or the cost would have been thru the roof.

Regards
Gary Hickman

[RussMcB]

Looks great, and it's fantastic that this car will be at Road Atlanta in November. Can't wait to see it in person.

[ghickman]

I'll post some pics next week with details of the aribox, eng. compartment etc. I'll also try our new GoPro camera out at Willlow Springs next week, hopefully I'll get some decent video to post.

Any of you that live in the Southwest that will be attending the Regioanl at Firebird Oct. 11-12th we will be there running laps. Matt please come out and play!

Oh...and YES we will be at the ARRC in November.

Gary

[ghickman]

Just had a question asked about our body work. There are 15 seperate molds associated with the body work.

The white color you see is straight out of the mold...no paint. We used a very thinned out Gelcoat to further reduce weight but a least give it some color. We don't plan to paint it...just ads weight.

All of the layups except the floors and diffuser were done with Polyester resin "Wet Layup".

The wings are hollow cores done in single cavity molds we built from foam core plugs.

Dirvers side panels done in Kevlar per SCCA rule.

Gary

[lowside67]

That scoop sure looks reminiscent of a Stohr!

Beautiful car, the details are amazing. Just curious why so many bodywork pieces? (I guess I know the answer to this - to make it easier to access different parts, but at the expense of overall fit and finish?)

[ghickman]

Mark
Thanks for the kind compliment.

Well I guess the fact that the Stohr has an overhead scoop it makes ours similar. If you stood next to our car and a Stohr the first thing you'd note is ours is about a 9 inches lower. Our engine cover is so close to the fit around the roll hoop you can't get a credit card to slip in. We knew how much intake air volume we needed and worked with that.

As for body panels count what's on your car, I'll bet there's at least 8 to 10. Here's a list

Nose
Shock cover
center section
drivers side panel left
drivers left side kevlar side impact
drivers side panel right
drivers right side kevlar side impact
top left pod
bottom left pod
top right pod
bottom right pod
Engine cover
left lower eng. cover
Right lower eng. cover
Air box
Splitter (underneath drivers feet)

Aero parts:
Front wing
Diffuser
Upper rear element
Lower rear element

Gary

[cparsons]

Ok you guys. I am finally getting jealous. And worried. Go on, keep raising the bar higher and higher. Beautiful work Gary, absolutely beautiful. I want to point out to those who may not be aware that this is a "from ground up, started from scratch, built it myself" car. It gives me hope just when I am starting to get discouraged.

[RobLav]

That looks like some real good work. Looking forward to seeing the car in person.

Do you have access at the top of the rollhoop for the wrecker hook?

[Wren]

Looks really good, how about some pictures of individual components?

How wide is the floor compared to the bodywork?

[VehDyn]

Fantastic! Great job. Hope to see you at the track.

[Jnovak]

Extremely nice, can't wait to see it at the ARRC.

Thanks ... Jay

[RussMcB]

Do you have access at the top of the rollhoop for the wrecker hook?

I think I see a hole in the engine cover, to accept a horizontal bar. I think this may be becoming a standard? I think the FE/FSCCA cars have it? I've occasionally wondered if ALL tow trucks have a bar handy. I'm considering this mod for my car (in addition to reducing the frequency of tow-ins :-).

[ghickman]

I think I see a hole in the engine cover, to accept a horizontal bar. I think this may be becoming a standard? I think the FE/FSCCA cars have it? I've occasionally wondered if ALL tow trucks have a bar handy. I'm considering this mod for my car (in addition to reducing the frequency of tow-ins :-).

Russ
Yes you are 100% correct. If you recall some time back I sent out a mass email to the FB guys. Got lots of good suggestions back. The one that stuck was the lifting bar. I called the SCCA Enterprises and they offered up the CAD drawing for their lifting bar. We copied it to the "T". We also built the identical bar which we will carry with us at the races. We figured there we enough of the FE cars out there that most of the wreckers probably had this bar on them...if not we have one.

Somewhere I read that the FE cars actually carried this bar strapped inside the car...I don't feel comfortable carrying this around with me at 140 plus MPH....might make a nice projectile.

Thanks for the nice compliments. We love this class and want to see it grow.

Gary

[ghickman]

Looks really good, how about some pictures of individual components?

How wide is the floor compared to the bodywork?

Wren
We're stretching this rule to the limit. Read the rule carefully as it's not what you might think.

BARGE BOARDS:
What you don't see in this is our barge boards. We will be testing these in a few different configs.

Votex Generators:
A few of them also

Gary

[ghickman]

It's time for me to take a moment and thank a few people for their help and words of encouragement.

The most important persons in this whole project are my wife Cathy and my long time buddy Tony Moore. Cathy has put up with me spending way too much time away from home (that's code for weekends and nights) and of course the $$$.

Tony Moore...well suffice it to say he's been on this full time since Sept. 07. Without his help it would never have happened. Tony thanks for putting up with me and sticking with the project.

Dustin Wright....I like this kid! We've been swapping ideas back and forth for about a year now. Whenever we needed some quick tech info he was always there. I hoped I was able to help Dustin with some of his machined parts ideas.

Other special mentions:
These are people that may not have directly contributed but thru their involvement in this class they did.

Sean, Russ Mcb, Jay Novak, Geo. Dean, Mike B, Glenn Cooper (love his humor). Brandon Dixon (thought I was the only CNC machinist that had way to much time on his hands), Billy Wight, Lee Williams, and lastly Jerry Freeman for building the very first truly scratch built car....it inspired us to press on.

Thx
Gary

[Brands]

Looks great! The ARRC really will a great F1000 event, and I'm looking foward to it. I just hope I have time to have a good look around your car, and all the others.

[ghickman]

Ben
You'll be more than welcome to pick over it...as will anyone. I'll be over at your camp picking your brain for RA driving tips...been since 1989 runoffs that I've driven there.

Last year I got escorted (not so nicely) out of the Piper camp for taking pics. It got my rankle up some but I got over it. Lifes too short for such antics.

Gary

[Wren]

Wren
We're stretching this rule to the limit. Read the rule carefully as it's not what you might think.

i read it as allowing the floor to be wider than the bodywork by 50mm. i can't remember everything that is defined as bodywork though.

But, I also read it to allow someone to run FC bodywork and put a tiny little extension on it(maybe a tiny chimney or something that sticks out of the sidepod) and run a full width floor.

[carnut169]

Wow!! Car looks great. It looks like the Piper, Stohr, and Phoenix got mashed into one car and then sharpened everywhere possible.

I can't wait to hear about your outings!

[ghickman]

Wow!! Car looks great. It looks like the Piper, Stohr, and Phoenix got mashed into one car and then sharpened everywhere possible.

I can't wait to hear about your outings!

Sir Sean
Coming from the "God Father" of Formula B I am truly honored. You have inspired me more than you'll ever realize.

I was deeply saddened when I heard you sold your car but something tells me you'll be back.

Gary

[Wright D]

Hey Gary,
Thanks for the kudos. Colaborating with you has been fun - your car looks great!!!!!

[glenn cooper]

Yep, looks like the ARRC is shaping up to be nicely attended. Maybe we can break last years entry total, which in "this economy" would be a minor miracle!
The Edge (Hey you guy's did get permission from David Evans, aka "The Edge" lead guitarist of U2 fame for naming rights, right?) looks like a winner straight out of the mould.
Good on you guys!
PS Nice to know I got/get a chuckle outta ya from time to time.

GC

[RussMcB]

When I started racing in the 1980's in the northeast, Ed Givler had an Edge FSV. I wouldn't be surprised to hear he still races it occasionally.

[jerry freeman]

Gary,

Thanks for the good word. Glad to be a little insperation for someone. The car looks great and I'll bet it looks better in person at the ARRC. Now if I could get some inspiration to get my turd looking that good life would be good. Good luck with the testing.

Jerry

[ghickman]

Hi All
Thanks for all the kind comments about the car.

We leave for Willow Springs tomorrow for the first of 4 (one day) test sessions before the ARRC race in November. I'm really looking forward to seeing this car turn a wheel after 13 months of work. I'll make sure it comes back in one piece.

If I can get my GoPro camera to produce some decent video I'll post it here on this thread.

Thanks again and wish us luck....

Gary

[ghickman]

Hi All
Update on our testing. We've been plagued by an oil leak that we just couldn't seem to locate. We worked on this for 2 days at our shop and thought we had it fixed.

Made the 4 hour drive to Willow Friday morning. Rolled out onto the track and there was our oil leak back again. Got about 12 laps in... in 3 sessions...

We cleaned up the mess and then it was apparent where the leak was coming from. There's 2 bolts on the clutch basket cover that are supposed to have a hard washer with rubber seal...they weren't there.

We concluded that the insurance company we got the donor engine from had removed the clutch basket cover then reinstalled it and left those sealing washers off.

NEXT TEST:
We're going back to Willow this Friday (that's their only open test day). We hope to get some legitimate testing in. In the short time I've been in the car it seems to be very nautral handling. We'll also be testing with new tires which should help eliminate that variable.

Gary Hickman

[RussMcB]

Sorry it wasn't a better test, but at least you've gotten past a problem.

I have a coolant system pressure tester and have always wished there was something similar for oiling systems. I made an adapter recently so I could test my Kawasaki main and scavenge oil pumps while in the engine, using a hand drill, but it only works with the clutch (and cover) removed.

Can't wait to see your car in a few weeks at Rd Atl.

[carnut169]

I'm suprised you didn't see the leak when running the motor in your shop... a cold start and a little rpm's generate the most oil pressure you'll ever see....

Still. could be worse, and at least you found the leak.

Keep it up!

[RussMcB]

I'm suprised you didn't see the leak when running the motor in your shop... a cold start and a little rpm's generate the most oil pressure you'll ever see....

It just dawned on me that there is no oil pressure behind the clutch cover. That would certainly explain why the problem waited for on-track g forces to really become a problem.

[ghickman]

It just dawned on me that there is no oil pressure behind the clutch cover. That would certainly explain why the problem waited for on-track g forces to really become a problem.

Russ
That's what we thought. Those 2 bolt holes we thought went straight into one of the oil galleys...but after studying it closer they don't.

We thought it was strange that Suzuki would machine the block and make those 2 holes thru holes. The parts guy at the Suzuki dealer told me they sold lots of those sealing washers.

Sean...we couldn't detect any oil leak in our shop except for just a few very small drops...and then it was impossible to locate the source. Our original thought was that it was coming from our 90 degree oil fitting coming out of the engine...we chased that for a whole day.

Gary

[RussMcB]

Recently, when I was having a problem sealing my clutch cover, I was astonished with the fluidity of synthetic oil. Each time I tried hard to make a good seal. I couldn't see any problems with the surfaces or gasket, but Amsoil had no problem whatsoever finding a gap and making good use of it. :-).

[Tony Moore]

It just dawned on me that there is no oil pressure behind the clutch cover. That would certainly explain why the problem waited for on-track g forces to really become a problem.

You hit the nail on the head Russ! The lowest of those 2 bolts is an inch higher than the oil level window. That kept it from doing more than a drop or two in 10 minutes shop running. I found out those sealing washers are in both sides of the engine. I don't know if this is a Suzuki design issue alone or not. Worth checking your service manual if you have a leak.

Gary should be posting pics of this test day soon. We were totally focused on testing and didn't get the GoPro on the car. Sorry about that everyone. We WILL have it on next time!

2nd Willow Springs went great! If the wind had been less than 30mph it would have been a perfect day!!! A large group reserved the track for a private session and cancelled. We had the track all to ourselves! That had to be a first.

I have to brag on Gary as a driver now, he is too modest to do that. With a new car and nearly constant 20-30mph wind and gusts exceeding that, he managed to consistantly shave time off each lap on the 2nd session out. He can very accurately describe what the car is doing. That allowed me to make changes in the positive direction and sort the car rapidly. If the wind dies down next Friday, I expect him to be in Continental and Atlantic time territory.

I don't know if any of you have been to Willow Springs. It is a 9 turn 2.5 mile road course. Turn 9 is an infamous loooooong decreasing radius turn. It is where the best drivers shine. It had a full crosswind Friday and Gary was getting drifted toward the outside. That had to be spooky, but he was cool as could be describing it. I almost couldn't see the car a few times due to the sand and dust blowing across the track!

Gary obviously was getting comfortable with the car to push it that hard. It was an unseasonably cool day for Willow too. Desert terrain and hot Santa Ana winds usually have it in the mid 80's to low nineties this time of year. I opted to get R250 compound and got a 68 degree track for my crystal ball guess. Didn't give Gary optimum grip and he still got faster each lap. Upside is they have another test day of wear left in them

Best Regards,

Tony Moore

[Wright D]

Good work guys, look forward to racing with you soon!

[ghickman]

Hi All
For those that have been following this thread we made our second test day on Friday. As Tony said above we had the entire track to ourselves...a very rare thing indeed. We plan to get 2 more test days in before we make the 3,000 trip to RA for the ARRC race.

We got about 60 laps in working in 8 lap sessions. The wind was insane...sometimes blowing the car into what could very likely have been a 4 wheel drift coming out of turn 8 and all the way into the entry to 9 which is flat out in 5th gear. For those that have driven Willow Springs you know how spooky these turns are on a calm day...we were working with a 20-30mph direct cross wind. I believe we were giving up at least 5 - 7 seconds per lap here which would have put us down in Atlantic times.

Chassis seems very neutral handling and responsive to shock settings. We plan to drop down 50 in/lbs all the way around on spring rates...felt slightly oversprung.

Sorry for not having the GoPro running...we've done several late night thrash session prior to leaving for testing and it seems like getting the camera mouted has been last on the priority list. If we make next Friday's test day we will for sure have it on then.

Here's a few pics. Tony shot quickly on pit lane.

Gary Hickman

[CSHAW]

This looks great guys

Once again, I will state my enthusiasm for the growth in this class. It is a great venue for creativity on a budget

When you guys tested, did you experience a substantial helmet buffeting? I found that when using a flat forward cowling, ther can be an extensive amount. We added some vortex devices but found the best fix was to slightly crown the cowling and let some of the air flow condense, split and spill over the sides

I look forward to seeing it in competition

[ghickman]

This looks great guys

Once again, I will state my enthusiasm for the growth in this class. It is a great venue for creativity on a budget

When you guys tested, did you experience a substantial helmet buffeting? I found that when using a flat forward cowling, ther can be an extensive amount. We added some vortex devices but found the best fix was to slightly crown the cowling and let some of the air flow condense, split and spill over the sides

I look forward to seeing it in competition

We did have some helmet buffeting most of which I believe was from the high winds. We were going to slap some vortex generators on the helmet if we encounter the same high winds this Friday....which is highly likely.

We get these crazy desert winds here called Santa Anna winds. If you're watching the news right now the winds are picking up here in SoCal and the wild fires are starting up.

Gary

[S Lathrop]

Add a small horizontal or vertical lip to the front of your cowel opening. This is to stop the air from flowing over the front of the cockpit and dipping under the driver's helmet.

[Rick Ross]

I agree with Mr. Lathrop. There is no need to modify the nose/cowling shape. Just add a small vertical "fence" along the front edge of the cockpit opening. It only needs to be an inch or so high.

[ghickman]

Thanks Steve and Rick
We'll give that a try. Years ago I did that to one of my Atlantic cars...worked like a charm.

Gary

[CSHAW]

On my big car I had a 1.5" Lexan piece, like a small windscreen, but on my new formula car design that we are building now, I was able to pay more attention while the car was still in CFD and came up with the curvature solution. In my case, I was able to clean up some of the turbulence this way and while reducing the gross direct wind blast on the helmet while maintaining some degree of laminar flow around the helmet. The head rest shape and the blending of the helmet to roll structure pod also helps out in the design.

One thing to keep in mind is that the flat sloped cowling, while giving you some downforce, creates a greater penalty in drag. The F-1 cars, where the flat top seems to originate, have a lot of power to convert the drag into effective work, the F1000 is challenged to say the least and thus limited of how much effective work we can extract..

Mike_B was wondering, out loud, why the old Van Diemon still holds its own and even bests many of the new cars that have the F-1 Look. The Van Diemon, with its elliptical cowl, is very slippery and I believe that to have the best results, we as designers are going to be forced to explore the balance in compromise between streamlining and effective downforce, due to the available power limitations.
People might look at you funny, but tuft testing is very effective and the driver can easily see what is happening on the top, sides and the transition corner break of the cowl. I think you might be surprised at what you see.
You have a big investment there and some very incredible workmanship.

C Shaw