Who will FF @ Runoffs - Vegas Line 2008

[Drivers Services]

Other stuff,

Thanks for the PM's and E-mails but if you have a general question please post it here in the thread I'm sure others besides myself will be able to answer many of them. I'll try to answer some now.

Concerning the big Banana.

Mr Campbel knows what he's doing, This is the same car that JR2 said is the best FF he's ever driven, Wheel covers are not worth over a second a lap, Yes the banana does look big, especially when it's passing other cars at speed. Tonis is an excellent driver, I dare say he would probably make most FF's here go faster just by getting in it. Tonis was out qualified and beaten by Hans Peter last year in FA at the RO's



Farley does JT's motors, About 1/3 of the field are DB-1's, I agree a seperate "DB-1" trophy would be neat.


An Aside

I do a fair amount of test driving of FF's FA's and CSR's. When I drive an FA/CSR or even an s2 for that matter and then immediately get in a FF, I usually feel like I'm going slow in the FF. Invariably the times are usually quite a bit better than I expect them to be. Mike Agnifilo refers to this as "everything slowing down". I think Tonis's recent experience is a big plus for his current FF effort.
So my advice. If you want to be fast in a FF. Buy an Indycar!

On another note, If you find yourself test driving a FF and FA on the same day DON"T drive the FF first, it will kill your FA times. Ask me how I know.


Heard around the paddock,

"Now they're bringing in hired guns!"

"If I could sh*t gas, you'd all love me."

"I hear you can have Paul Tracy drive for you and you don't have to pay him"

"So I hear you think we're cheating"

Speed asked me for some help picking out other fast drivers in several classes, it seems many of those they had already picked for their intro pieces aren't coming. There may be 513 entries listed on the SCCA website but I wouldn't be surprised if that #'s not high by 15-20 percent.

Try to talk to you tomorrow.

Jim Little

[Wes Allen]

Hey Jim,Thanks for the updates!
1. How many cars are running fronts all around?
2. Last year there was alot of debate surrounding the "flat plane diffuser" at the rear of the car. Coello had a modified FC piece others had aluminum pieces. Anything new this year?
Thanks Wes Allen
Piper DF2

[Purple Frog]

I was in fear that with no frog migration to HolyTopeka we would be left in the dark out here in the netherlands... Thank goodness for Jim Little!

Keep up the fine reports!

[Tim Webb]

I can't seem to pull up the qual times for session #2.

Any results?

Tim Webb
Swift DB-6 #24

[RussMcB]

screen print:

[Joefisherff]

Any pictures? Thanks for the updates.

[Keith Carter]

1| 15| Chris Keller| 8|1:36.413| 93.348| 7|1:35.547| 94.194|
2| 37| Tonis Kasemets| 10|1:37.023| 92.762| 6|1:36.343| 93.416|
3| 44| Alex C Schutte| 10|1:36.719| 93.053| 10|1:36.719| 93.053|
4| 17| Tony Coello| 7|1:38.643| 91.238| 3|1:37.413| 92.390|
5| 36| Stephen Oseth| 10|1:38.126| 91.719| 8|1:37.865| 91.963|
6| 2| Michael Sauce| 6|1:38.019| 91.819| 6|1:38.019| 91.819|
7| 3| Arthur A Foster| 10|1:38.769| 91.122| 5|1:38.235| 91.617|
8| 4| Clifford A Johnson| 8|1:41.826| 88.386| 5|1:38.310| 91.547|
9| 12| Jeremy Treadway| 7|3:56.614| 38.037| 4|1:39.245| 90.685|
10| 42| Bill Johnson| 9|3:46.607| 39.716| 8|1:39.565| 90.393|
11| 75| Rick Joseph Payne| 9|1:39.570| 90.389| 9|1:39.570| 90.389|
12| 66| Mark Keller| 10|1:39.713| 90.259| 10|1:39.713| 90.259|
13| 82|avid H Livingston Jr| 10|1:39.847| 90.138| 10|1:39.847| 90.138|
14| 72|Thomas E Schwietz Jr| 5|1:39.960| 90.036| 5|1:39.960| 90.036|
15| 8| Marc Blanc| 5|1:41.944| 88.284| 3|1:40.941| 89.161|
16| 73| Michael W Baden| 9|1:44.884| 85.809| 4|1:41.072| 89.045|
17| 74| Brad Hayes| 9|1:42.490| 87.813| 8|1:41.160| 88.968|
18| 38| R Lawence Bangert| 10|2:09.137| 69.693| 9|1:41.189| 88.942|
19| 48| John Vlasis| 9|1:43.261| 87.158| 9|1:43.261| 87.158|
20| 81|nry Kenneth Rozeboom| 9|1:45.040| 85.682| 5|1:43.937| 86.591|
21| 22| Bill Ehrlinger| 9|1:46.623| 84.410| 8|1:46.128| 84.803|
22| 95| Daniel R Helman| 8|1:47.714| 83.555| 8|1:47.714| 83.555|
23| 6| Stanmore B Townes| -| --.---| 0.000| -| No Time| 2.500|
24| 19| John Robinson II| -| --.---| 0.000| -| No Time| 2.500|
25| 24| Tim Webb| -| --.---| 0.000| -| No Time| 2.500|

[TimW]

http://www.scca.com/popup/raceresult...12416&file=436

[stonebridge20]

I don't think those times will stand through the afternoon. Stay tuned folks, it's starting to get thick around here!

[Garey Guzman]

Good thing I forgot about the live timing - I was actually able to get some work done this morning!

http://www.livetiming.net/SCCA/RunOffs/LiveTiming.asp

[Charles Livingston]

Dont leave us hanging stonebridge! Is Keller being protested or something?

[Drivers Services]

The CA boys have arrived!!!!!!

Alex Schutte is JR2 reincarnated (sp) he really likes to "Toss the Course". He tosses the car on entry like no one else here this week.

Chris Keller is insanely fast thru turns 1 and 2, down right scary. Nobody close. He also uses every rev in that Loyning lump.

Tom S decided to go out with the pack and try to work traffic, didn't work. About 5 laps in he was looking for a new front corner and nose box.

Traffic will be dangerous for the front runners. There are a few cars who are stunningly slow in the slow bits. I mean like really really slow. Almost gotta hope for a couple FC yellows to help keep them out of the way.

Tonis didn't seem himself, perhaps the track conditions weren't to the banana's liking. I haven't asked but I believe he has it set-up fairly stiff.

Mike Sauce, Clifford Johnson and Arthur Foster are further up the grid then their turn 1 thru turn 3 splits say they should be. If they can get thru the high speed stuff better they could be in good shape.

JT is having a bad day, His #2 engine seems off and he, like I, had some stuff stolen from the paddock area. Yep bad news out here. The 500 guys got hit while they were on track around 8am and it quickly snowballed from there. I got hit when we were filming for speed around 8:30, Around then they got JT. They are now making regular announcements to lock your stuff up when on track.

Chris Keller, Tonis and Alex Schutte look to have the legs on everybody right now. Hopefully JT and Tom S can get their problems worked out and join the party.

Steven Oseth is a better racer than qualifier so if he can just get a little closer to the front he should be alright.

TC is fourth right now but looking at a 1.8 second gap to the pole sitter.

It's nice to finally have some cards on the table.

Jim Little

[flycoop]

My wife says I need to go to "Racers Anonymous" and I told her there was a special meeting this week in Kansas and all I needed was a sponsor....didn't work.

Jim,
Thanks for the updates...very exciting how fast the front runners are going. Hopefully Tony and Jeremy will find the speed.

Tim
FF88

[stonebridge20]

Dont leave us hanging stonebridge! Is Keller being protested or something?

Sorry, We just need to keep our cards a little bit close right now. The "book" will be written sometime after 3:15 Saturday afternoon.

[John Robinson II]

Mike, A bit of advice, dont wait until the last minute (or day) to take your "book" to the publisher... it might end up being a paragraph instead

[PaulT]

I'm confused, who's driving the big banana, Tonis?

Paul

[Jon Jeffords]

Paul, you are correct, Tonis is driving the "banana" VESTAL 09F. Here's the registration list which includes makes/models:

http://ams.scca.com/netforum/eweb/dy...7E52D&class=FF

[IDSRacing]

Anyone know what happened Stan Townes?

[thunderracing91]

JT is having a bad day, His #2 engine seems off and he, like I, had some stuff stolen from the paddock area. Yep bad news out here. The 500 guys got hit while they were on track around 8am and it quickly snowballed from there. I got hit when we were filming for speed around 8:30, Around then they got JT. They are now making regular announcements to lock your stuff up when on track.



That really bugs me that people would go out and take your stuff while out on track...........talk about a swift kick in the balls. Makes me think twice everytime I go to the track..........................

Andrew

[Drivers Services]

Wes, IDS

TC is still running his "small tire flyer" set-up. The tire companies offer a menu of various sized tires originally designed for other cars, It's not really a case of "fronts all around". FF is a seriously over tired class. Perhaps many got their que from TC but FF drivers are trying the whole menu, many different tires are being used as alternates. I believe all the DB-6's here are on "standard" rears which themselves are lighter than they used to be. Steven Oseth and Tom Schwietz are also both on alternate rears.

Not to much barking about anything aero. I don't know if it's because of all the attention the banana's wheels are getting or because some past "barkers' aren't here. Maybe TC will put it on the pole tomorrow and we'll all start talking about undertrays again.

Stan Townes is converting a borrowed motor to DB-1 spec and I believe will be back on track tomorrow.

Tom S has his Piper repaired and will be back out as well.

In a gesture of true sportsmanship a nationally known engine builder has stepped in to try and help JT get his engine running better. Maybe JT's luck is changing.

I have to say again how fast Chris Keller is thru turns 1/2. He's nearly flat and with that highway divider center section it is actually scary to watch. When he goes for it (which isn't every lap) nobody's close. He's turning real qualifying laps, other guys are just trying to go fast, There is a difference. When he goes for it, it's showtime. Chris "Showtime" Keller. I guess when you have a complete spare car that happens to have a RO's winning engine bolted into it you can take some chances.

Well we've had 1 dry Q and 3 guys are under JR2's qualifying track record.

Looking foward to tomorrow.

Jim Little

P.S. That chief steward that lost on appeal to team Kephart wouldn't give it up and appealed his loss - well he lost again. Team Kephart 2 Chief Steward 0

[Wes Allen]

Jim,
Appreciate the reply! Keep the info coming for the guys that couldn't make it this year!

[Steve Maxwell]

OK, since SCCA's fabulous website doesn't seem to be working properly the schedule won't load. What time is FF qualifying today (Thursday)?

[RussMcB]

FF Q3 - 1:30 PM (local time)

This link is working for me this morning:

http://cms.scca.com/documents/2008%2...08Schedule.pdf

[cooleyjb]

OK, since SCCA's fabulous website doesn't seem to be working properly the schedule won't load. What time is FF qualifying today (Thursday)?

130 local

[Steve Maxwell]

Thanks guys!

BTW Russ, that is the address I tried and it gives a 404 error that the server is down. Even when I click on your link I get the same error message. Strange....

But thanks none the less!!

Steve

[Ian Lenhart]

P.S. That chief steward that lost on appeal to team Kephart wouldn't give it up and appealed his loss - well he lost again. Team Kephart 2 Chief Steward 0

Why is this guy wasting his time?


Ian

[RussMcB]

screen print:

[RussMcB]

Why is this guy wasting his time?
Bored? A big A hole? Doesn't like Mr. Kephart? Napoleon complex? All of the above?

Just playing devil's advocate.

Maybe he's thinking that if the wheels provide an advantage then whoever does not spend the extra bucks for them is not going to be as fast. He is interested in trying to keep costs down and a level playing field.

[stonebridge20]

Mike, A bit of advice, dont wait until the last minute (or day) to take your "book" to the publisher... it might end up being a paragraph instead

John, There is a plane ticket waiting if you want to come out as legal councel. I engineer, I coach, I prep. I don't do the legal stuff very well!

The fuel issues out here right now are almost impossible to follow. When 6 cars go to impound after Q2 and 4 are 100% legal on fuel and 2 are not (85%. More on the 85% later) you would think the times for that session and any previous times would be disallowed. I was standing there while the 2 competitors were being notified by the chief of fuel testing that their fuel DID NOT PASS. When I get the time sheet from Q2, the 2 competitors times are "standing". I go to the chief steward and he says the fuel "meter" was out of calibration and all times stand. I then go to the chief of fuel testing and he says that since there are so MANY people testing at 85% that the chief steward has lowered the "standard" to 85% to avoid the amount of protests they are getting.

Now on the 85%. Prior to yesterday, SCCA was testing ONLY dielectric. They were NOT testing for the "tracer". MANY people took fuel for volentary testing prior to yesterday and PASSED. Yesterday SCCA started testing for the "tracer" which SHOULD show 100% (SCCA set 95% as minimum acceptable) The test is NOT a PPM test, it's a dye reflective test. Sunoco non spec fuel is "0%" (meter set at "0) and Runoffs spec fuel from the pumps here is "100%" (meter set at 100) now you have competitors testing at 85% reflectivity and PASSING! What this means to me is that there's 85% spec fuel and 15% WHATEVER with the propper dielectric as the "fuel of choice".

Disclaimer- This is from a guy that has to get back to bolting a POS engine back in a car running for a national championship after doing a propper cam timing set-up (Thanks to a very good engine builder who will be named after Saturday) in the middle of a freaking parking lot!

Agnif

[Ian Lenhart]

Just playing devil's advocate.

Maybe he's thinking that if the wheels provide an advantage then whoever does not spend the extra bucks for them is not going to be as fast. He is interested in trying to keep costs down and a level playing field.

I understand the appeal once, but why a second time? It sounds like a waste time. He's legal - let him race with the wheel package that is already deamed legal. Deal with the rule change during the off season.


Ian

[Steve Maxwell]

Mike,

Everyone already knows who the engine builder the helped you guys is. That was really great of him. He is definitely one of the best in the world when it comes to FF engines. That fuel issue is BS!! If people are not passing then their times need to be tossed; end of story!! we've been discussing this for at least six months and everyone knows the deal. More runoffs BS!!

Good luck to you guys and all the NEDIV guys.

Steve

[reidhazelton]

We "all", and all meaning me, do not know the engine builder, but would like to know when it is ok to do so. I was thinking why hasn't one of the builders, whom I am sure are there anyway, helping this guy (how has a legit chance at winning the deal) out with simply tuning it or something.

Second, I was talking to a doctor-chemist friend of mine who works for a large lab in Illinois, and he says that fuel tests are not all that much farther from witchcraft in terms of having repeatable results with a usable margin of error. He did say, that he does not know the specific tests they are using so it is hard to make such a generalized comment. However, he said even in a lab environment it is difficult to replicate fuel tests. Then talking to him today, he says that an 85% (or 25% margin of error) is about as good as drinking it to tell what is in it.

Is fuel testing really worth it? Thanks all!

[Art Smith]

"Maybe he's thinking that if the wheels provide an advantage then whoever does not spend the extra bucks for them is not going to be as fast. He is interested in trying to keep costs down and a level playing field."

I'm seeing purple!!! it's NOT his job to think OR do what's right OR attempt to keep the competition close OR keep the competition "affordable"; his job IS to verify compliance with the rules as written! nothing more OR nothing less; same rules for everyone!!

the last thing the Club needs is activist liberal judges creating rules out of thin air that are not objectively verifiable. we're either a Club governed by rules or a 'food fight' waiting to happen....................

Art
artesmith@earthlink.net

[RussMcB]

Art, I agree completely.

Russ (no longer advocating for the devil :-).

[John LaRue]

Who is the steward filing the protests?

[Jon Jeffords]

Third qualifier is done. If I'm seeing this correctly, it looks like the only change to the top ten order is Schwietz has moved into ninth place.

[bob darcey]

Top five qualifiers:

1| 37| Tonis Kasemets 1:36.085
2| 15| Chris Keller 1:36.402
3| 44| Alex C Schutte 1:37.803
4| 2| Michael Sauce 1:38.172
5| 17| Tony Coello 1:38.229

Maybe this will work: http://www.livetiming.net/SCCA/RunOf...L.asp?Class=FF

[Steve Maxwell]

OK, so did anyone keep track of yesterday's times? Remember, it is the best time of the week that sets the grid. I think keller did a 1:35.5 yesterday so he would have the pole.

SeM

[Garey Guzman]

Steve,
Go back to posts #47 and #48.

Or go to the SCCA website:
http://www.scca.com/eventresults.aspx?event=12416&hub=1

Of the top 8, only Tonis improved his time from yesterday and he didn't improve his position.

Looks like a 2 man race for the gold....

[LenFC11]

1 Chris Keller 1:35.547
2 Tonis Kasemets 1:36.085
3 Alex Schutte 1:36.719
4 Tony Coello 1:37.413
5 Steve Oseth 1:37.865
6 Mike Sauce 1:38.019
7 Arthur Foster 1:38.235
8 Cliff Johnson 1:38.310
9 Tom Schwietz 1:38.624
10 Jeremy Treadway 1:38.653




way to go chris! well done!!