Pinto Zetec Equality Aug 08

[John LaRue]

Thanks for the clarification. John

[Steve Demeter]

Not knowing any better, but will revving the Ztec to the higher RPMS adversely affect engine life, which is the big selling point in the first place.

Does anyone know for sure just how much a top Ztec and a top Pinto from Sandy cost?

I ask cause I heard some seemingly very high numbers this past weekend.

[Camadella]

Not knowing any better, but will revving the Ztec to the higher RPMS adversely affect engine life, which is the big selling point in the first place.

Does anyone know for sure just how much a top Ztec and a top Pinto from Sandy cost?

I ask cause I heard some seemingly very high numbers this past weekend.

A Zetec, complete with all of the bits necessary to run (like the intake manifold, wiring, clutch, sensors, and the like) costs in the neighborhood of $11K. Not bad, considering that they go for a long time with no attention.

I can't really speak for the Pinto - but over the course of a season, the Pinto is likely more expensive if you run the same number of laps.

What you really want to know is the cost per horsepower per mile - what we engineers refer to as "mile specific dollar consumption", or MSDC. I think that virtually everyone will agree that although the Zetec has a somewhat high initiation cost, it has a much lower MSDC once you've taken the plunge. Kind of like the Fram man - you can pay me now, or you can pay me later.

[D.T. Benner]

Steve,I shift at 7300 with 193HP and a STOCK Zetec bottom end. I have 3000+ miles on the engine and it still makes top HP and has the same Oil Pressure as new. With the restricted Zetec MAP I doubt you could hurt one.

[Purple Frog]

Just a guess, and only a guess, based on some three year old prices.

If you walk in and buy a race ready sealed zetec, and everything needed to convert the chassis (e.g. wiring, ecu, headers, fuel pump, drysump system, clutch, bodywork, etc.) , with no core... look beyond $17K. (per Jay Novak )

I'm guessing if you want a national level pinto, and you don't carry a core in with you, I bet you are looking at for a Al head pinto... $12K - $14K.

If you have a running iron pinto as core, and want it built top shelf with an Al head, I'm guessing $9K, without headers.

Refreshing a top shelf iron pinto for the Runoffs... $4K - $6K.

I'm talking an engine that has serious dyno work, with all the tricks matching the carb to the intake, and optimizing each cylinder to match.

Your mileage may vary.

[John LaRue]

Steve,

If I recall correctly the guys who originally ran the Zetec in the pro series without a restrictor also achieved good life from the engines. I have no idea where they were spinning them, perhaps one of them could chime in and comment.

John

[andyllc]

Steve,

If I recall correctly the guys who originally ran the Zetec in the pro series without a restrictor also achieved good life from the engines. I have no idea where they were spinning them, perhaps one of them could chime in and comment.

John

6500-6700. Put 5000 miles on the engine in the first year with no problems other than clogged fuel injectors at one of the Mid Ohio rounds and nothing wrong before or after that for 2 years.

[Jnovak]

As there seems to be some interest, I thought that I would post our total eaxct Zetec engine costs as purchased this spring.

Zetec F2000 engine complete - $11,500.00
Chassis Harness - $1,445.00
Pectel T2 ECU - $1,270.00
Air scoop complete - $585.00
Shipping - $260.00
Walbro fuel pump - $137.00
HiTech stainless headers - $1600.00
Starter motor - $325.00

Total engine costs - $17122.00

Now this does not include a car chassis harness, coolant plumbing, oil system plumbing, oil cooler, and other misc bits associated with the engine installation, which probably added another $1000+ to the bill.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

Note the edit to change engine harness to chassis harness. The engine harness is included with the Zetec engine.

[Camadella]

Additional bits not mentioned include:

Alternator (I forget, somwhere around $200)

Alternator mounting bits (Somewhere from $200-300, depending on which setup you get)

Rear bodywork (i.e., engine cover) The Pennon one is very nice.

Bigger battery (probably necessary as ballast)

YMMV, of course

[anthonywill3]

why is a Zetec complete engine so expensive ($11,500)? The GCR states "[SIZE=1]
The philosophy of the Zetec engine in FC is to allow limited engine rebuilds but no performance modifications to the engine. Blue printing, balancing, head porting, polishing, etc. are strictly prohibited and against the spirit of the Zetec formula" , [SIZE=1]
"All surfaces on the head, block, rods, pistons, and crankshaft must remain as manufactured by Ford and may not be altered in any way. The original casting marks and cast surfaces must remain as-cast and also meet all of the Ford design values and tolerances as stated in the Ford factory manual or as delineated in these specifications. The block may not be decked.", so where is all the cost coming from? Not to mention that the $11,500 doesn include the ECU, airbox, etc. Someone please edumacate me!
[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[jonbaytos]

There is a profit?

[Jnovak]

Remember that the Zetec race engine is MUCH different than the Ford Zetec engine. The fuel injection system, dry sump system, ignition system, harness etc are all part of the price.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[BrianT1]

What is the cost of a rebuild for the zetec motor??

Brian

[Ron B.]

After aproximately 11K milies I paid $4K for a fresh motor. Ready for another 11K miles.

I think Church had one with even more miles than that......

[Ron B.]

There is a profit?

Holy crap - Jon is alive!

[anthonywill3]

Remember that the Zetec race engine is MUCH different than the Ford Zetec engine. The fuel injection system, dry sump system, ignition system, harness etc are all part of the price.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

Correct, thats why I am trying to get the full breakdown as to how the motor costs 11.5k, plus the harness, ecu, etc.

Yes Jon, of course you should make a profit!

Just trying to understand how it breaks down...

[RWalden]

Is there enough interest for me to assemble a install kit for the zetec engine in a pinto car for sale??

[Art Smith]

as the owner of several 2-liter Pinto engines I've found this year's early start to
performance creep and whining season amusing. while the arguements this
year are smoother, it's still my sense they're wide of the apex/mark! while
I may have missed it, Zetec flywheel weight (rotational inertia) needs to be
included in any objective arguement for more useable area under the Zetec
horsepower vs rpm curve! lighter Pinto flywheels is not the answer, only an
all but certain invitation to more bent valves and ruined heads. as forecast
before the experiment, the only test of a lightweight Pinto flywheel by an
expereinced driver I'm aware of resulted in tweaked valves and a "soft"
engine in less than a weekend! to the best of my knowledge Zetec parity
with 2-liter Pintos is the Club's stated objective, NOT 2-liter Pinto parity with
Zetecs, and Not unrestricted Zetec parity with with 1-liter stock motorcycle
powered cars.............

rather than this seemingly endless whining about Zetec parity in Club racing, wouldn't
it be refreshing if a member put their name on a specific objectively verifiable change
to the GCR as currently written and submitted it to the Club for consideration
using the Club's defined process. if someone has actually done the work, a change
proposal is approaching brain dead simple:
1.) name of the member proposing the change that is prepared to speak on the
merits of the change (fronting a change for someone else should be uncomfortable
in my view)
2.) current rule as written
3.) proposed rewrite of the exisiting rule or remove and replace wording
4.) objective of the change
5.) members effected/potentially effected by the change
6.) alternatives considered in lieu of the proposed change
7.) reason(s) each of the alternative considered are not being recommended
(preferably with objectively verifiable data to support conclusion(s))
8.) objectively verifiable data that supports the merits of the change
(the perenial rub, apparantly all sole source suppliers, most suppliers, and too
many members would rather deal in the domain of hearsay or "they" told me
these are the numbers)
9.) adverse consequences of approving the recommended change; there is
risk associated with all change.

given the Club's track record of translating whining into objectively verifiable rules,
particularly where sole source suppliers are involved, why does anyone want to
continue with the whining approach? if 2008 continues at the current rate of
sole source messes, the Club will almost certainly have a fully qualified
"clean-up" team by year's end. looking on the brighter side, a team with well
honed skills might represent a new revenue source for the Club addressing the
parade market that welcomes life stock........................................

Art
artesmith@earthlink.net

[BrianT1]

Robert,

I would say yes.

Brian Tomasi

[Chas Shaffer]

Is there enough interest for me to assemble a install kit for the zetec engine in a pinto car for sale??

Robert,

I believe a cost effective, all inclusive zetec conversion package from the manufacturer would be well received by the owners of 1998 and newer pinto VD's. Perhaps a retro kit for 94-97 cars could come later if the newer kit is successful.