Seeking ideas to drastically lower my club racing costs

[Daryl DeArman]

- 1981 USNA NOS RX-7 12A GSL Windshield Washer Bottle (!)

:-)

Now THAT is funny!!!

[EYERACE]

Hey! Thanks to this thread i now realize i got ripped off when i bought my VanDiemen FC....no windshield washer bottle was included.....harrumph!! I called Elan and they didn't have any......so i guess now i never will get one.....harrumph!

I remember the BMW commercial the other year with the line > happiness IS the corner.

The other year in my Crossle 32F I went out for the last session of a Roebling Road test day....when they were letting all cars run together....i caught him and then found myself going down the main straight side by side with a ITS or ITA or ITsomething RX7. Much to my suprise I could not pull away from him at the end of the straight and we entered the beginning of the braking zone side by side..........halfway through the corner i was probably 10 car lengths ahead and after that i didn't even see him in my mirrors....but the straight line speed the RX7 had caught me off guard. I like open wheel.....partly because road racing is not that much about straight line speed.....and to blind spots i say harrumph!

[RacerDave51]

Was Eye expressing displeasure or throat clearing?... or some of both...

har'rumph [verb-transitive and intransitive]

Mutter critical remarks: to say something expressing criticism and displeasure, often muttering so that listeners are aware of the tone but cannot hear the exact words

Clear throat: to clear the throat, or make a noise that resembles the sound of clearing the throat.

[Tom Sprecher]

Windshield - $150 or $200 installed

Doors and Bumpers - generally free if you pull it and haul it off according to 3 IT7 drivers who started hoarding cars years ago so they could make a living at building them but because the cars are so cheap to begin with they couldn't make any money at it.

Windshield Washer Bottle - like I've told every one else about this topic, I got your windshield washer bottle right here!

As far as performance comparisons - come on for Christ's sake. You guys are about half or less the weight of me, with bigger brakes, wider & sticker tires, lower CG and more HP. You damn site better be able to out do me at anything on the track.

But, when is comes to low cost, I win hands down.

That's what we are talking about, isn't it?

[carnut169]

Ok, lets compare your costs to Scott's (formulasuper)....

I don't think Russ's FB is the problem. We can race with $1500 engines and used tires. This can be a very economical class. Problem is all the extra stuff that racing an IT7 does not help... entry fees, fuel, etc. Take Barber: $375 entry, $200 test, $200 fuel to/ from/ race. Add food and misc and your at $1,000 regardless of what you drive. Tough pill to swallow... and Russ has not had the fun to go along with the expenses lately.

Oh well, we can't take it with us!

[glenn cooper]

Lemme guess, they came in a plain white box?
Hey Tom, you may want to ask Dernehl about the time he ran those NAPA rotors on his EP car. Yep, the very best, from China, to you!

GC

[Rob Howden]

I think renting the car out would be the best idea. There has to be a ton of people out there who would like to try out an F1000, so rent out the car a couple times a year. You'll learn more about your car and tuning not having to worry about the driving either.

[Tom Sprecher]

Doesn't everything come from China now? Somebody wrote a book recently about trying to live for a year without buying anything that was made in China. They said it was damn near impossible.

To be honest I have not received the rotors as of yet but they are supposed to be manufactured by Raybestos and have a Raybestos part number. Where Raybestos gets them from I can not tell you.

Also the rears were $9. The fronts were a little more.

[EYERACE]

Like the Governor says in Blazing Saddles........"i need a harrumph out of that guy"

[Charles Warner]

You get what you pay for!

[Tom Sprecher]

You get what you pay for!

I have dozens of stories about items I have bought (cars, stocks, vacations, machinery, tools, etc.) that either were "the best" that turned out to be no better and sometimes worse that lower priced items, or at first appeared to be "you get what you pay for" situations that turned out to be incredible deals.

Most people pay what they allow themselves to be convinced and ultimately feel they should pay. That's Marketing 101.

Plus, I've always been of the mindset that says you never know until you try and if you don't try you'll never be successful.

[Charles Warner]

Plus, I've always been of the mindset that says you never know until you try and if you don't try you'll never be successful.

I agree, with the caveat that one must assess the potential risks. It's one thing to buy a cheap(er) watch and find it doesn't keep proper time. It's another thing to have a brake rotor explode going into turn 1 or turn 5 at Road America. As my grand-pappy used to say . . . . you pays your money and you takes your chances.

[Daryl DeArman]

Well said Tom.

I've purchase Brembo rotors that were made in Brazil, Italy and China. ALL of the them in Brembo boxes from the same parts store.

I am sure there are parts retailers reading this forum aware that often times parts are manufactured for "Company A" by a number of different sources. They aren't all the same, even though their box and brand may be. You think Mazdaspeed rotors are made BY Mazda or FOR Mazda?

Akin to the wine lovers who pick two buck Chuck in blind taste tests over their expensive 95point wine until they know how much it costs. Some people feel great about their things based on how much it cost, others know the true meaning of value. Can you tell I am about as frugal as they come? I did spend over $200 on a steering quick release, and not because of the name on the side, but because I have yet to find a better one for less money.

What would piss me off more than buying a cheap watch that doesn't keep time, is buying an expensive watch that doesn't keep time. I have to reset it twice a year for a time change anyway does it really matter if it lost/gained 3 seconds or 1 second in that period? Watches are more a look at me, look how successful I want you to think I am! When to me they say "look how foolish I am with my money." Does anyone know how many tires that Omega represents? I'd rather buy a Seiko and tires for two seasons!

[formulasuper]

You get what you pay for!

I wish this was always true.

[Tom Sprecher]

For obvious reasons I spend much of my time over on the IT forum and after searching there for an answer to "what are the best rotors" it appears that there really is no way to say. Brembo and OEM came up a lot but many said they have tried them all and run whatever is cheapest. Due to the weight of the cars and the small swept area rotors are typically replaced every season.

Guys have had el cheapos last longer that Bembos or OEM and others that had quite the opposite experience. Some had $$$$ rotors explode while others had the same thing happen with the low buck units. It's a crap shoot.

BTW: I buy $2 Chuck by the case. The Cab and Shiraz are excellent. Like you, I can't see paying 5-6 times more for something when I, and apparently some "experts", can't distinguish between the two. Wine snobs FTL.

[carnut169]

BTW: I buy $2 Chuck by the case.

Well, yeah but.... (Tom on the right)

[Tom Sprecher]

I have lost a lot of weight, had the tats removed and went to the dentist since that photo was taken.

Also, I found this and rest my case.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=1963794

[Charles Warner]

Also, I found this and rest my case.

As good ole Eddy Spenser said . . . . De gustibus non disputandum

[RacerDave51]

Tom could you post the link to the IT site? There may be tin top in my future...

[Purple Frog]

Tom, Russ, Sean;

How do you boys have time to post? I just returned from my most recent North American odessy, and looking at the headlines on all the unread newspapers it appears that Russia has invaded Georgia. I thought you boys would be out defending everything that General Sherman didn't burn during the last unpleasantness.

[RussMcB]

Tom could you post the link to the IT site? There may be tin top in my future...

I'm not Tom (or the other guy in the picture), but here ya go:
http://www.improvedtouring.com/forums/index.php?

Tom, Russ, Sean;

How do you boys have time to post? I just returned from my most recent North American odessy, and looking at the headlines on all the unread newspapers it appears that Russia has invaded Georgia. I thought you boys would be out defending everything that General Sherman didn't burn during the last unpleasantness.

Georgia is a big state. That ruckus must be happening near one of the borders. I haven't seen anything near Atlanta.

[RacerDave51]

Thanks Russ...

[Mark H]

Ol Bill Tecumseh on his quest "to make Georgia howl" didn't leave anything!
At least he came from west of Atlanta through Kennesaw and not Gainesville graciously bypassing, Road Atlanta.....you know that tearing up tracks as he went was one of his tactics?

See Russ now you can take the $$ you saved by not getting a divorce and have plenty to go racing? If I had 1/2 the $$ I lost in this last year I could race Paddy's FA for the next 22 years!
I won't even comment on the knife thing I'm sure they can see this.....sure I shouldn't be so paranoid.....but I wouldn't have to be if they weren't out to get me.

[Tom Sprecher]

Tom, Russ, Sean;

How do you boys have time to post? I just returned from my most recent North American odessy, and looking at the headlines on all the unread newspapers it appears that Russia has invaded Georgia. I thought you boys would be out defending everything that General Sherman didn't burn during the last unpleasantness.

The Rooskies got as far as Kennesaw, where by law, every head of household is required to own a firearm of some sort. Once confronted by that they turned around and went home.

The S&W 686 .357 magnum in stainless is my favorite, but to each his own.

[Larry]

The folks in Savannah were pretty unhappy about the whole ordeal, as it wreaked havoc on business--and they were practical businessmen! They met Sherman on the outskirts of the city and welcomed him. In exchange, he left Savannah intact, which is why Savannah has one of the most beautiful historic districts in the country.

I've had the opportunity to live in many parts of the country. My son was born in Texas and my daughter in Savannah. I even spent three years and nine days in North Dakota--not much for racing, unless you include snowmobiles.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[ghoneycutt]

And as far a going over to the FRCCA, there’s a hitch. Every single FF engine in SCCA is illegal in the FRCCA because of that club’s “restrictive”,“cost-savings” rules. Not so in EMRA or FormulaPro racing though!

FRCCA has three club classes that are restricted (for example, RICS, PADCAP and spec gears).

But FRCCA recognizes all classes. If your car is legal somewhere else, it's legal to run with the FRCCA with no modifications needed and you will compete and receive awards with cars of your class. If there's enough entries of a given class, they can get their own run group as there is enough time in the day's schedule to do so. Otherwise if needed, split-starts may be used.

We have SCCA, FPR and EMRA cars run at our events all the time. Every SCCA, Formula Pro, or EMRA participant can run and receive awards with FRCCA with no modifications to their cars.

Please feel free to contact FRCCA with questions.

http://www.frcca.com/modules.php?name=Contact_Us

[Joefisherff]

My vote for lowering costs is to let the person causing the accident and trying to win on the first lap pay for all damages. Make cameras a requirement on all cars - review the results and levy the fines. I'm out for the rest of the season now.

[RussMcB]

Sorry to hear that, Joe.

Think of it as a life experience.

Sorry. That's the best I can come up with. I know it doesn't help.

[EYERACE]

another from left field idea > wash all clothes in cold water - pocket $1 towards the race budget everytime you save on your utility bill - by the end of the year that might equal a set of tires

[Mike B]

My wife does a lot of laundry, but I don't think she does 900 loads a year.



I let her have Sundays off.












.

[EYERACE]

uhh.....used tires?

[formulasuper]

uhh.....used tires?

Hey Eye, don't even get him thinking that way. Where do you think I get my used tires from?

[RussMcB]

Hey Eye, don't even get him thinking that way. Where do you think I get my used tires from?

I'm not sure who Eye was addressing his suggestion to. Surely you guys aren't talking about me. My take-offs would be third-hand tires with dozens of heat cycles.

[Richard Dziak]

Great thread. While we all love the sport, we must realize that this is an expensive sport. It takes pure disposable income, which for many is very tight. It seems like there is every opinion here possible and good responses.

The economy and finances has been my occupation for the last 25 years. Economic times are tough right now and I don't see the US economy turning around anytime soon. Over in the RMD SCCA car counts are declining. I see the same situation in the Arizona region SCCA.

I try to plan a schedule that is reasonable 9-12 months in advance once the regional race schedules are posted. I then supplement the race days with open track days to some get seat time and have fun. Overall the posts here all discuss the same thing, tow costs, food, hotels, entry fees, tires. There is no way to get around these costs and food, lodging, tires and pump gas have all gone up. I don't think there is any correct answer, other then get that extra job to make a little racing money, and plan carefully a budget.

What intrigues me here is that many people that think they can enter races on the cheap and that is drastically wrong. I have to budget $800-$1000 per weekend for 2 hours of track time. That's $400 to $500 per hour for a double regional. In addition the funds are after tax dollars.

You have spent a lot of time building the car. Keep it, don't rent it. Run a few SCCA races per year close to home to keep the SCCA license ( 2-3). Try to find some open track days locally to run the car and get the thrill.

Even if you race 2 times a year and have a few open track days, you still get the thrill and you are doing what many men and woman would love to do and that's drive and own a real formula race car.

Those who are doing conversions and those that are trying to manufacture cars, better have a large cash positions and understand there is little to no market to sell the cars in the aftermarket.

While we all want to race and have fun doing this, the reality is it takes the disposable cash, which for some is quickly becoming very limited.

Don't give up, don't quit. I am sure that you could never replace the car for the time and effort that you have in it.

I must compliment you for exposing your situation in this matter. Sean O'Connell did the same. And as we all can see from the multiple posts here that this sport for many has become an economic burden and cash cow. We must all budget the race funds, & time and try enjoy the time we get on the track whether it 2 or 3 times a year. We are still all doing what others can only dream of.

Russ, never give up that dream, just schedule and budget the funds strategically.

I too will schedule fewer races for the remaining 2008-2009 racing for all the same reasons. I will keep the F1000 and just enjoy looking at it if I have too. As we all know, we can't sell our cars for nearly what we have into them.

I am sure that many SCCA regions will see car counts decline, and racers will drop out of the sport, and car constructors will go out of business. Bottom line it's just pure economics for all of us. It's a sport that does not produce income to warrant the expense in most cases.

[Brian]

Couple of comments on Richard's excellent note: $800 - $1,000 IS on the cheap if you're including car costs, I wish I could get it down to that. And finding a way to make the $1,000 legitimately pre-tax is, in my opinion, a worthwhile endeavor. Be a lot less work to just get another job, mind you...

Brian

[Wren]

Those who are doing conversions and those that are trying to manufacture cars, better have a large cash positions and understand there is little to no market to sell the cars in the aftermarket.

quoted for truth

I'm in it for the chicks.

[stommelen]

This is my first year racing in the SCCA, so I was fortunate to be able to make a tow vehicle decision after gas prices had already started to get out of control. I bought a 16' single axle landscape trailer for about $1600 and tow it behind my 2000 Saab 9-3. Depending on whether the a/c is on or not, I get 18-21 mpg towing the trailer, Swift, two additional sets of tires and wheels, and with everything that I bring to the track stuffed into the back of the Saab. I realize that since I'm just starting out, I probably bring less to the track than most, but so far it has been manageable.

-Phil

I am still looking from the outside but it did not take me long to realize that the towing story is the key (trailer+towing vehicle+winter storage) for people who otherwise do not know what to do with a truck/SUV. I am looking into towing a formula car either with a long tow dollie or a single axle trailer. Unfortunately the weight for most car+trailer combos still exceeds the max allowed for my minivan(s). How do you manage to satisfy the insurance requirements by towing with a car? Thanks for any input.

[Stan Clayton]

quoted for truth

I'm in it for the chicks.

THIS.

PS - What's you Fark handle?

[Phil Wellner]

I am still looking from the outside but it did not take me long to realize that the towing story is the key (trailer+towing vehicle+winter storage) for people who otherwise do not know what to do with a truck/SUV. I am looking into towing a formula car either with a long tow dollie or a single axle trailer. Unfortunately the weight for most car+trailer combos still exceeds the max allowed for my minivan(s). How do you manage to satisfy the insurance requirements by towing with a car? Thanks for any input.

If I remember correctly, my Saab's towing capacity is rated at 3,000 lbs., and the trailer hitch that I had installed is rated at 3,500 lbs. I'm well below that with my current towing setup, which is somewhere around 2,000 lbs. fully loaded. I've looked at the towing specs on a bunch of cars and minivans over the last year, and they're all over the map. For whatever reason, Saab and Volvo have better trailer towing ratings than most cars, I would have to upgrade to a truck or SUV to do any better.

-Phil

[Tom Sprecher]

I just bought spare rotors (Raybestos) for all four corners of my IT7. The total bill including shipping to my door was $58.21. How much would the same be for your Van Diemen?

$58.21! You can't even find a stick to beat that with.

I found out today after inquiring where the hell my order was that it had been cancelled. If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.