Kevin, you misspelled "upgraded."
Kevin, you misspelled "upgraded."
Is that
some kinda backwoods, W VA, Apallachian, clogging kinda dance?
If so - I am so down for some clogging, I'll bring my my clogs AND tap shoes to the R/O's and show you how it's done!
Much like everything I do, it involves mayonnaise sandwiches and incest.Originally Posted by glenn cooper
C'mon now, that's the best movie ever.
Coop,
Are all those mods you are doing to your RV legal?I have my doubts.
Who signed off on the aero bits? I think some of them are higher than 90cm...
You PUNKS
are so young you use movie references that would be like me referencing something from Blazing Saddles...
<Blazing Saddles>Coop just pawn in game of life.</Blazing Saddles>are so young you use movie references that would be like me referencing something from Blazing Saddles...
Hold it! The next man makes a move... the shifter gets it.are so young you use movie references that would be like me referencing something from Blazing Saddles...
Oh, that is all kinds of win.
I was negative 2 years old when that movie came out
How about
Frau Blücher
Frau Blucher....
Neigh!
Much wood
back in the day for Madeline Kahn!
Engine Builder
My engine builder is Abbey somebody
Abbey..........Abbey Normal That is it!!
Last edited by Mike Holland; 08.04.11 at 7:38 AM.
Outtake from Blazing Saddles:
Madelin: "Tell me, schatze, is it twue what they say about the way you people are... gifted?
...Oh, it's twue! It's twue!"
Clevon: "Uh, Ma'm. That's my elbow"
Another absolute classic.Frau Blucher....
Neigh!
It was legal
Sorry to get back on track (I am laughing pretty hard right now, you guys crack me up), but with respect to the following post:
The engine in question was mine, and it was not modified. In fact, George had just finished rebuilding it and it got here the Friday before the Seattle race, the same day I had Dustin flying in from Phoenix to do some other work on my car. So I picked him up at the airport and we drove straight to the freight terminal, loaded it up and spent Friday night and Saturday morning installing it in my car (thank you Dustin!). The following Wednesday I headed out for the 2-day tow to Seattle, where we got to run the engine for the first time.Originally Posted by Rick Ross
JP,
Why do you assume that the engine in question was "obviously legal"? It could have been modified after it left George's shop.
If you knew me you'd know that I am not a mechanic - not even close. So I am not about to open up an engine as I wouldn't have a clue as to what to do. But that's not the point. The point is that I don't cheat. Ever. It's just not my style. I don't know how anyone could feel satisfaction from winning if they weren't playing by the rules; I am happy to have my car inspected at any time, any place.
So while it's theoretically possible that something could have been done to the engine in the 72 hours between the installation and the departure to Seattle the reality is nothing was. We got it from George, we put it in the car. That's it.
I shared my experience regarding the findings of the boroscope inspection at Seattle because it made me wonder how they could question my engine. I was astounded that there could be any issues because it was fresh from George and I had personally installed it.
So that's why the engine was "obviously legal" .
Cheers,
John
the engine I heard about that came from GD and was found to be illegal at the same race was was not yours and was in another car. I don't want to name names because I don't know it to be fact but I heard that engine was "modified" after it left GD's shop. But....reading your experience it brings me back to my original point that the Techs at that race didn't know what they were looking at.
JP
Ben Franklin once said: "Believe half of what you see and none of what you read in an Apexspeed PM."
Just BS
All this he said, she said crap is absurd. Nothing but BS. State facts here. Be prepared to back it up with sound, and precise facts. Don't be a ***** and say "I don't want to name names...." All these "rumors" are nothing but degrading to the class and its competitors.
If you're not willing or able to clarify exactly what is fact, then just don't say anything at all.
Umm, not so fast there, Jersey! (I keed, I keed)
The tech guys at the race seemed pretty switched on, good guys.
What they did have was a brand new, in the box, bagged and dessicant packaged GSXR K7/8 cylinder head, and a borescope.
While I'd be the first to admit that the images being viewed through the sparkplug hole in and of itself are not conclusive, it was reported that there were differences from the new head. Something about a ridge in the combustion chamber being shaved down as I recall...
call me a ***** or whatever else (don't appreciated you calling me that) but I'm not going to name anyone because I don't know if it's true (most likely is though). Personally I can care less. What I do know, which is fact is the engine failed tech and it was a GD engine. So that puts two of his engines in the illegal box for that race. And I know just like everyone else that he doesn't build cheaters so either two things happened: they were turned into cheates after it left his shop (one of which I was told was and the other which I doubt) or they techs were not able to positively determine if they were or weren't (which isn't a slight on the techs) My only point is that you and your techs or anyone else is going to have a hell of a time policing these "stock" engines. its not going to happen, its a fact as far as I'm concerned. Either deal with it now or deal with it later. And I'll say it again: there is something weird in an engine rule when a 06 gsxr cheater make 170hp and a stock "legal" engine makes 190hp, just doesn't register in my head. I know Wren keeps saying (and he is correct) people are spending $10k on built motors but that's prior to the new stock 190Hp engines that will surely be out in very soon. JR promised he would have had the BMW running at this years runoffs and I'd love to see a tech guy inspect that, he better speak german...
Last edited by JohnPaul; 08.04.11 at 11:53 AM.
John,Sorry to get back on track (I am laughing pretty hard right now, you guys crack me up), but with respect to the following post:
The engine in question was mine, and it was not modified. In fact, George had just finished rebuilding it and it got here the Friday before the Seattle race, the same day I had Dustin flying in from Phoenix to do some other work on my car. So I picked him up at the airport and we drove straight to the freight terminal, loaded it up and spent Friday night and Saturday morning installing it in my car (thank you Dustin!). The following Wednesday I headed out for the 2-day tow to Seattle, where we got to run the engine for the first time.
If you knew me you'd know that I am not a mechanic - not even close. So I am not about to open up an engine as I wouldn't have a clue as to what to do. But that's not the point. The point is that I don't cheat. Ever. It's just not my style. I don't know how anyone could feel satisfaction from winning if they weren't playing by the rules; I am happy to have my car inspected at any time, any place.
So while it's theoretically possible that something could have been done to the engine in the 72 hours between the installation and the departure to Seattle the reality is nothing was. We got it from George, we put it in the car. That's it.
I shared my experience regarding the findings of the boroscope inspection at Seattle because it made me wonder how they could question my engine. I was astounded that there could be any issues because it was fresh from George and I had personally installed it.
So that's why the engine was "obviously legal" .
Cheers,
John
I was not suggesting that your engine was non-compliant, and in fact I had no idea who JP was referring to when he used the phrase "obviously legal". I was simply attempting to emphasize to JP that in general one can not assume that an engine (or any component) is compliant based solely upon who performed the last rebuild, or based only upon the reputation of the team/owner/driver. If that were that case there would be no need for any tech inspection process, in either club or pro racing.
My comments were meant to be general in nature, and were not directed at any particular competitor. I apologize for any confusion.
Rick
Duplicate post.
But, Rick, you need to realize that JP has gathered a lot of evidence while sitting at his computer. He can claim to have facts about what happened on the west coast at at that event.
What I'm getting at, is if its a rumor, keep it to yourself until it can be confirmed. Once its a confirmed fact, state it and be prepared to back it up. Rumors do nothing but bring a bad taste to this class.
You can't say in one sentance that "I don't know if its true but, likely it is". If you don't know that its true, than it isn't until you can verify it. Spreading rumors is child's play and saying "likely it is" is just that.
Just facts please and no innuendo.
Which reminds me of a deal I made last year. I bought a stock, direct from a bike, engine from Don, who bought it from Coop. The engine had never been opened. I paid Don $1,500. We installed it and it was strong and dependable for just over a season. We ran 13 races, test days, and Q's, on it. It wasnt the quickest in a straight line, but we still ran 2:05's on the long course at Sebring, and 1:05's on the short course. I'd take a truckload of those $1,500 motors.
I still have it as a back up.
$1,500 motors and mechanical shifters. I love it.
PS: I did have to ask George to make me a harness for it. Extra $200, so it was a $1,700 motor.
Last edited by billwald; 08.04.11 at 1:27 PM. Reason: spelling..
Thanks for the reminder, Bill. That's why so many of us got so excited about F1000 in the beginning. Fantastic performance (better than FC) at a fantastic price (lower than FC).Which reminds me of a deal I made last year. I bought a stock, direct from a bike, engine from Don, who bought it from Coop. The engine had never been opened. I paid Don $1,500. We installed it and it was strong and dependable for just over a season. We ran 13 races, test days, and Q's, on it. It wasnt the quickest in a straight line, but we still ran 2:05's on the long course at Sebring, and 1:05's on the short course. I'd take a truckload of those $1,500 motors.
I still have it as a back up.
$1,500 motors and mechanical shifters. I love it.
PS: I did have to ask George to make me a harness for it. Extra $200, so it was a $1,700 motor.
Casting numbers matching
We assume here that Suzuki production and replacement cylinder heads are the same; casting numbers match, machining operations identical... Manufacturers typically reserve the right to make minor production changes without public announcement. One hopes the tech guys have this detail in hand. Does anyone know where the Suzuki K7/8 head casting numbers are located?
I wish George Dean would comment.
Rick
I have my compliants about FB, but there is no denying that it has achieved that goal. Even at the very front of the grid it is faster and cheaper than FC.
Ha ha ha... wiseass day in apexland. Nope not gathering evidence here and nor did I need to be there to know what happened, I spoke to plenty of people that were and when someone I respect tells me what happened I take their word for it. Honestly I can care less if someone is cheating. I know that might get your panties in a wad but with engine rules like these I already expect it so I dont get disappointed. But that was neither here nor there, my original post was to demonstrate that engine tech was going to be a lost cause. The only reason this whole thing came up was because someone (Rick) brought up the fact that someone might have messed around with the engine when it left GD's shop and I replied he may be correct based off what I heard also.But, Rick, you need to realize that JP has gathered a lot of evidence while sitting at his computer. He can claim to have facts about what happened on the west coast at at that event.
Last edited by JohnPaul; 08.04.11 at 7:54 PM.
B-b-b-but, Fox News does that and they are a reputable bastion of journalistic integrity!!!!
/s
I still think that John is going to be able to tech this stuff better than the SCCA can.
The stewards out west would have to go through a pretty rigorous and expensive process to pull the head off of the car. John will be the god of his series and he can tell anyone to pull their head or GTFO and it won't cost him any more than the price of a head gasket and a few hours of George's time.
I have been told that there is basically no variation in the thickness of the heads from the factory and George has logged every one he has ever gotten. If he has the head and a set of calipers, then he is going to be able to tell you what has been done to it.
Casting Numbers
The casting numbers are located on the thermostat housing 07-08 head 21H and a 05-06 head 41G
George
Just So you know. I know John labrie and he's not a cheater. He self admittedly has more skill to gain from track time. Building a motor would be pointless to him at this stage of his driving career as he will drop his lap times more from practice than anything else. George's motor was legal just like every other one ge has ever built. And the techs for the west coast pro series are one and the same as the scca techs. A borescope inspection is just a preliminary check how ever to actually declare a motor illegal it must be torn down ann inspected which involves a bond of something in the range of 1500-2500$ and you must protest the exact part that you beleive is illegal.
100%
No harm...
Hey Rick, you're fine. I didn't take it personally at all, and you were far from offensive.I was not suggesting that your engine was non-compliant, and in fact I had no idea who JP was referring to when he used the phrase "obviously legal". I was simply attempting to emphasize to JP that in general one can not assume that an engine (or any component) is compliant based solely upon who performed the last rebuild, or based only upon the reputation of the team/owner/driver. If that were that case there would be no need for any tech inspection process, in either club or pro racing.
My comments were meant to be general in nature, and were not directed at any particular competitor. I apologize for any confusion.
I just wanted to clear the air, that's all.
And thanks Alex for your $.02.
Cheers,
John
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