New R.L.C. data loggers?

[dmiller]

Been searching all the ususal suspects for a data logger for my FE and came across this one: Anyone know anything about these units? Looks pretty interesting.
http://rlc.com/RLC_Racing_Web_Site/Hardware.htm

-d

[Lotus7]

why spend nearly 2 grand for something unknown, when AIM can be had for half that?
we really like ours.

[Marshall Mauney]

These look interesting, but I personally like to have the display mounted to the wheel. The RLC doesn't appear to be capable of this configuration; it looks like the G sensors are in the display module. I'll also chime in with support for the AIM - I've had a couple, and have been happy with both.

[Trhoades]

Give Hoerr Racing Products a call on the new IQ3 made by MSD...I looked at this product real hard when making a decision..more expensive but does alot more..Todd Rhoades

[sccadsr31]

My question for you would be; are you looking to just log data or do you also want to do analysis? If you want to do analysis then the key to any system is the analysis software. Take the time to find people using the popular systems and see how well you can easily and quickly learn to use it and what it can do, and more important what it cannot do.
IMHO dash displays are over rated; Do you really have the time to look at all the information they can display; Can you actually focus on the display and use the information real time; Or are you better off with the old analog gages, a big red oil light and doing a download after the session.
The system I use is a Competition Data CII and it has a simple lap time/MPH display that is very helpful. In a DSR the tach is small and reading it quickly to +/- 25rpm is difficult, the MPH is a little easier to use than the tach as a corner instantaneous feedback and at the beacon I get the lap time. After the session I can quickly download the data and check the important stuff.

David

[dmiller]

Thanks everyone,

I've been on the fence for the last four years whether I should get a data logger, so everyone's opinion is helpful. One feature I think would push me over the edge is getting split times "on the fly" so you can work on a corner as your drive the session. This is is what got me interested in the RLC system I saw. Also, I'm sick of messing with beacons for my little AIM lap timer, so GPS is also something I would like. Obvously, the AIM systems are nice (they also hook directly into the MBE ECU on my car), so that was the first choice. I saw the ads for hte RLC and they looked like they had some nice features (split times on the fly, predicted lap time as you run, USB and wireless downloading, play back on the dash, etc.), so I was hoping someone might have seen these. -darius

[Trhoades]

The Iq3 systems has GPS as well as a g meter...it has all the for track mapping as well as engine data, it even has one for ride height....you can put in track sections for split times and also has the perdictive current lap time..This is a very well and easy system to use and is made by MSD...I would strongly suggest you take a look at it....Good Luck Todd

[lancer360]

I looked at the RLC system pretty hard. The hardware on the RLC is really top notch and the 40 hz GPS is probably the most accurate GPS in data logging short of a differential GPS system.

The problem is the software. I downloaded the software and played with it, and it just doesn't compare to the CDS system in funtionality. The CDS system will do split times in the corners using the GPS. Download the software from both and give them a try, and go with the one you like best. CDS does have some nice online tutorial videos and it looks like they are trying to expand that to include more topics. In the end, I have decided on a CDS system.

[dmiller]

That's good advice on the software, I'll have a look at them next. I looked that IQ3 as well, and it seems like it has a lot of nice features as well for the price. I wish it supported the MBE ECU, adding sensors seems like it gets expensive quickly. Lots of varialbes to consider, I think for my purposes I'd like one that gives as much instant feeback as possible as I tend to forget quickly between each sesson what I was working on. Thanks again for the insights. -d

[George Main]

That's good advice on the software, I'll have a look at them next. I looked that IQ3 as well, and it seems like it has a lot of nice features as well for the price. I wish it supported the MBE ECU, adding sensors seems like it gets expensive quickly. Lots of varialbes to consider, I think for my purposes I'd like one that gives as much instant feeback as possible as I tend to forget quickly between each sesson what I was working on. Thanks again for the insights. -d

It is the analysis software that will help you remember between the sessions.
Think about this:
A driver makes on average about 300 decisions a lap. Over 10 laps=3000 decisions. At the end of the session, you might remember 5-10 of them, 20 if you are really good at recall.
Those 5-10 decisions are usually the ones where you saved yourself from disaster. Those normally stand out in bright color . And as most drivers do, change their car and their driving approach according to them. WHAT about the right decisions, the ones that didn't
show up on your brain download? Chances are you may change one or two of those by mistake, just by not remembering what you did?
With a good analysis software package, if it is designed well and has enough "tools" and different ways to read and look at the data just recorded, you will remember 40-60 of those decisions. This being the first or second time you use the software (not a year later).
For instance, looking at a steering wheel, a brake and a throttle graphic (just like sitting in the car) and watching yourself drive a lap. Or taking your braking and throttle graph, and putting it on the track map (not a bunch of colors of the rainbow as it on some systems) but the actual two signals plotted on the map. So at glance, (and without the analysis experience of reading the XY plots), you will instantly remind yourself of decisions and actions you did with the throttle and brake. Or do the same with the steering and lateral G (handling), or the shock movements (awesome for finding all the bumps on the track) or any signal that you have, can be plotted in this fashion.
Down the road as you grow in ability to analyze data (the graphical interface can and will help your learning process) you will soon have recall, of ONE SESSION more information and memory of those decisions , than you previously had over 3 weekends of racing without a logger. And recoup 80% to 90% of those decisions.
This is the reason for a data logger and a good well designed (for a racer by racers) software package that truly answers the questions, instead of leaving you questioning how to get the answer and where you left that phone number to next seminar for your system.
The software layout and graphics actually will teach you how to read the XY graphs, the ones that most people need to go to seminars to learn how to read.
And this is only a fraction of what it can do.


This is TrackMaster software from CDS that comes with each system.

After about 20 minutes of this (this is the fastest analysis software package, period, IMHO having used and developed a thorough understanding of the major data systems) your ready and armed to attack the next session and use your "live" driving performance monitor and very aware of what happened in the first session good or bad, and know exactly what to change and more importantly what not to change.

CDS has a very unique driver performance monitor, very different from all the rest, different enough that's it patented.
A lap performance monitor often is completely based on your fastest lap recorded so far and compared your current running lap. The monitor is comparing the full lap to WHAT the current lap is (full lap, though not finished yet) is predicted to be. There isn't a definition of part of the track you are faster in, just that this lap, when it is completed is faster by this much.
As far as I know, a driver doesn't learn a track by way of a full lap at once. Maybe some drivers do, but having worked with over a hundred different drivers in my lifetime, never met one that could.
Not so with CDS's performance monitor. The CDS Performance Monitor, breaks the track up, in the same manner a driver LEARNS the track and tells you how fast you are over that part of the track.
You have control over the dash, as to how much you want to section it out, so you can be specific what parts of the track you want to monitor. Also you can compare the fastest Lap, the theoretical fast lap or the current fastest lap from the current session. (Also not a feature on other systems)

The data analysis is 95% the reason to have a data system/dash. (Including the performance monitor and lap counter/race timer in the analysis, as it is analysis

George Main
Speedsense Consulting and Rep for CDS, for last 18 years

[George Main]

I actually went to the RLC factory in Paso Robles, CA.. last year and saw the RLC. It is a nice designed dash and very well built. The mapping is second to none and a very nice job has been done with it.

At that time there wasn't any type of analysis software package, except what you could analyze on the dash it's self. Though it was single plot signals and fairly generic. They weren't for sale yet. I was told at that time, that wasn't part of the plan to have an analysis package, though they were going to have a computer program to display signals.

I visited again during the PRI show and still no analysis package, but I don't know if that's changed since.
All the dashes are sold in house and (I was also told) their support will be via their website.

George Main

[lancer360]

They have software now that you can download from their website. Seemed pretty generic to me, especially after trying out the CDS and AIM demo's. I just bought a CDS system from George above. Thanks George!

[RLC_Racing]

Hey guys:

Thanks for all the constructive criticism on the RLC data loggers. Since many of your posts on our products we have become much more developed; especially our pc software. We will also be offering a product in the next month that pugs right into OBDII/CAN for street car applications. We are determined to stay committed to our race community and customers alike. Please bare with us on things like software because it usually it takes a little longer to get the it to match the performance of the hardware. You can expect to continually see our products get more innovative and easier to use as time goes on. We promise were here to stay and have alot to show the racing community. Thanks again everyone!

www.rlc.com

Jason Cammisa
Sales and Marketing Director
(805) 239-9737
jasonc@rlcracing.com

[iamuwere]

Aim now has a very reasonable GPS solution in the EVO4 system. Cool features and still fits in the FE. The RLC seemed hardware wise, but I needed more in the data.

jim

[RLC_Racing]

Just curious what is it more that you want in data? We may have those features but if you haven't seen the new software you may not be aware of it. If you are interested PM me and I would love to talk about it. I think everyone will be really excited with what we have to offer in the near future.

JC

[iamuwere]

The most important part for many formula cars is which of your products can be mounted on a steering wheel?

[steve kramer]

Anyone out there with an IQ3 - comments?