Cracked Header

[NPalacioM3]

I have a couple of questions for you FB guys. A buddy of mine who I will be teaming up with this season is down at Savannah for the double school with his Stohr DSR which of course uses the same engine as all of you. Well, this afternoon during one of his sessions he was experiencing a tremendous amount of backfiring and brought the car into the pit. Turned out his header cracked and due to the wrap, could not see the initial signs and ended up shattering the thing. They have found a local guy who is working on the piece to get it back together well enough to finish the school at .06 and just get his sessions in to get signed off.

My questions are, is this a common failure on these motors? Or can the cold weather down there be the culprit? He says it is getting down around freezing temperatures at night. Is there something that we should be doing in regular maintenence to avoid this from happening again? Or is this just one of those racing failures that just happens from time to time? Since I will be racing with him all season and we will be working together, I want to learn a little more about it myself. Thanks in advance, feel free to share any related stories!

[Charles Warner]

There is no way of answering your question. The temperatures should have nothing to do with it. It could depend on installation, age, earlier treatment, vibration isolation, etc. First thing is to get rid of the wrapping. It easily could have been a factor and does more harm than good, IMO.

[NPalacioM3]

There is no way of answering your question. The temperatures should have nothing to do with it. It could depend on installation, age, earlier treatment, vibration isolation, etc. First thing is to get rid of the wrapping. It easily could have been a factor and does more harm than good, IMO.

So this is not a common failure on these motors? I agree on the wrap and we will not be putting it on the new set.

[RussMcB]

It's not a common problem for the engines, but it does happen often when the headers are wrapped.

I suppose if the engine is running lean, or there is a timing issue, something like that could be a contributor to the problem.

Good luck during the rest of the school.

[S Lathrop]

I always love to see my customers wrap their headers. I know for certain that I will get an order for a new exhaust system soon. And I know that the one they have will not be repairable.

If you must wrap a header, then have a spare one or two.

Even stainless steel headers won't stand it for long.

Headers need to be cooled for long life and good service.

[formulasuper]

The standard answer is have your new header ceramic coated inside & out & use aluminum sheet metal to form heat shields where ever you need them.

[S Lathrop]

The down side of ceramic coatings is that the header is nearly impossible to repair. Other than that it is a great process.

[NPalacioM3]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone, this is exactly the information I was looking for. Now time for the noob question, who/where do you guys recommend for this ceramic coating procedure? Engine builder? Machine shop? Neither?

He got the header back last night from the welder and has made it through the AM sessions today, hope it holds up the rest of the day! Thanks again for the responses, I know you guys will be just as helpful when I have questions about my FC .

[R John Lye]

Hi Nick,

How's it going? Your old Swift is still doing well for me.
Anyway, I have had good results with both Jet Hot Coatings
(they even have a "Ford Blue" coating that I have on my
headers now), and Swain Technology coatings. Both of them
do a good job. Jet Hot is probably better known, but I
liked what I got from Swain as well.

John

[NPalacioM3]

Hi Nick,

How's it going? Your old Swift is still doing well for me.
Anyway, I have had good results with both Jet Hot Coatings
(they even have a "Ford Blue" coating that I have on my
headers now), and Swain Technology coatings. Both of them
do a good job. Jet Hot is probably better known, but I
liked what I got from Swain as well.

John

Hey, John! Thanks for that info and I will pass it along to my friend, it sounds like this is something he should certainly have done.

Glad the DB1 is doing well, my Dad and I were just talking about that car the other day and how we should have never sold it! Gib Gibson is amazing and that DB1 is a fine example of that, great car. Did you keep it blue?

Where are you running the car? I piked up another one of Gibs cars from Brian Belardi and will be running the MAARS series in FC this season, the car should be here later this week!

[Charles Warner]

Now time for the noob question, who/where do you guys recommend for this ceramic coating procedure? Engine builder? Machine shop? Neither?

Neither. Paint them with high temp paint that you can remove every winter and inspect.

[RussMcB]

Neither. Paint them with high temp paint that you can remove every winter and inspect.

On my F1000 (and probably many DSR's, too, with headers coming out of the front of the engine), it's very desirable to reduce heat coming off the headers. It's VERY hot in that area, and there are a lot of things that don't like heat in that area. That's the main reason I'm coating my header, even though that will make repairs difficult in the future.

[S Lathrop]

Go look at what is done for turbo cars such as CART and Champ Car. Something like that will be more effective and less expensive than trick coatings.

The shield material is very expensive but you can do something similar with thin Aluminum, ceramic insulation and stainless foi ( .015 sheet maybe). The shields I have sceen had a source of air and an exit.

[racer27]

What do you think is the best material for heat shielding (One side will have have that Gold Foil material). Stainless, Aliumium or Copper?

[R. Pare]

The best heat shielding will have a high reflective value and a low heat transfer rate. The gold clad material fits that bill quite nicely.

Once you have your reflective barrier (which is all that this sort of shield is in reality) you may still want some sort of insulator to keep the heat that does transfer through from heating up whatever it is near. McMaster-Carr has some ceramic blanket material that works very nicely as a thermal blanket.

[kma4444]

The header problem Lorenzo had was the collector just fell apart, they vacuumed the remains out of the car. I think it was just a mild steel collector that was done.

[NPalacioM3]

The header problem Lorenzo had was the collector just fell apart, they vacuumed the remains out of the car. I think it was just a mild steel collector that was done.

Oh, well that was not what he relayed to me. In fact, he was shopping for a complete new header this afternoon. I guess he better get that figured out! I have not seen the car yet since the school, I will be at the shop with him this weekend to see the damage for myself. My car gets here Saturday too!

[R John Lye]

Glad the DB1 is doing well, my Dad and I were just talking about that car the other day and how we should have never sold it! Gib Gibson is amazing and that DB1 is a fine example of that, great car. Did you keep it blue?

Yeah, its still blue and yellow, although the pattern is a bit
different. I liked the color combination too much to change
it.

Where are you running the car? I piked up another one of Gibs cars from Brian Belardi and will be running the MAARS series in FC this season, the car should be here later this week!

Very cool. I'm still running the MARRS series also, although I only
got in two races last year because it took me a long time to fix
some damage from Labor Day 2006.

I'll look forward to seeing you at Summit.

All the best,
John

[kma4444]

Oh, well that was not what he relayed to me. In fact, he was shopping for a complete new header this afternoon. I guess he better get that figured out! I have not seen the car yet since the school, I will be at the shop with him this weekend to see the damage for myself. My car gets here Saturday too!

Don't let me lead anyone to believe I don't think he doesn't need a new header, I'm sure he does. I was just saying that the collector fell apart. Cheers!!!!

[NPalacioM3]

Don't let me lead anyone to believe I don't think he doesn't need a new header, I'm sure he does. I was just saying that the collector fell apart. Cheers!!!!

Understood.

Very cool. I'm still running the MARRS series also, although I only
got in two races last year because it took me a long time to fix
some damage from Labor Day 2006.

I'll look forward to seeing you at Summit.

All the best,
John

Back at ya. See you in April!

[Messenger Racing]

What is the best source for the gold foil shielding material?

JM

[R John Lye]

What is the best source for the gold foil shielding material?

JM

I don't know if its the best place or not, but I got mine at CDOC
mostly because they are local to me, and had it in stock.

John

[RussMcB]

Some discussion here:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22607