ARRC Tech

[8-Ball]

Anybody aware of how stringent tech will be? For instance, if one were to run a "built" engine, would they actually be detected and busted?

Just wondering...after all, with all that's at stake with this inaugural championship, someone could be tempted if the odds were such that they could get away with it...

Hopefully, the top three will be scrutinized to the hilt!!

[RussMcB]

I'm pretty sure that top IT finishers always have engine top-end tear downs and but I've never heard of anyone having to open a formula car engine at the ARRC. Or any southeast regional race I've ever attended, for that matter.

Of course, all normal SCCA rules apply so protests and RFA's could happen. There is more at stake this year than past.

FWIW, I've already started protest paperwork against a few people.

Just Kidding! :-).

[Purple Frog]

Up until about 2000 it was mandatory that the top end of CFCs get torn down. After that there became a gentleman's agreement not to go to that expense unless there was a protest. The tech officials went along with our agreement.

But I speak for CFC only.

I'm guessing this will be something that will have to be regulated by the entrants. Just how many motorcycle engine experts are certified to be SCCA inspectors, and how many of those will be at Atlanta? This is the reason I personally think the class has to move to a SIR, and soon.

[RobLav]

This was a very heated topic during creation of the rules, so I knew the SIR thing would come up again. Maybe I still believe too much in personal integrity... We had debated some severe penalties if an entrant gets caught - something like no racing in FB for one year.

So yes, I have always been against the SIR.

Another aspect is that, as stock, these engines are already pushing that envelope. So you could either change engines for a new one every year (or two) or spend a lot of money to try and get another 5-10 HP.

The ARRC is a good test of of the personal integrity of the entrants. Hope it is successful.

[andyllc]

Whats an SIR?

I know in CF I was torn down at ARRC in 2000 (last time I ran SCCA)

It is bound to happen. Case in point is the SSC and SSB guys. None of those guys would say they cheat, however they are always stretching things, it is just the nautre of competition.

[8-Ball]

SIR: Single Inlet Restrictor. Which restricts the engine's air intake somewhat limiting its maximum power.

I think that eventually and especially if the class grows as it appears it will, it may be wise to have the engines controlled and maybe even sealed such as is done in a lot of "spec" classes and series. These engines can be built fairly easily and we all know that there will always be those that'll "push the limits" to get that extra bit on their competition.

[RussMcB]

I don't really want to hijack this thread from its original subject, but I like the idea of an SIR in FB.

If this does spark more SIR posts, perhaps a new thread should be started.

There is a rumor that there WILL be tear downs in FB at the ARRC. I talked to an Atlanta Region tech guy recently. You read it hear first.

Russ

small print: I am pretty confident that you read it hear first because this is where that rumor is starting. When I talked to the tech guy it was about something completely different. :-).

[RobLav]

If we ever go the restrictor route, we really need a double inlet restrictor (DIR) because all of these engines feed air from both sides of the bike. Otherwise, we'll all be playing with airboxes forever.

But I'm still against having a restrictor. It will cause a lot more money spent trying to change cams / overlap, etc to get more lower end torque - the restrictor will essentially limit the rpm's.

Maybe we need a new thread topic?

[cparsons]

I have 2 cents doing absolutly nothing in my pocket, so y'all can have it.
The rules are that the engines remain basically stock internally(over simplifing but you get the idea). And the threat of a tear-down is always present. Any Driver/team(?) can make the challenge and pay the money, as well as a request from the tech inspectors to tear it down. And what is really to be gained by cheating? This is a big event for FB, yes, but if a home built/conversion wins by cheating, so what? He/she gets a bigger piece of the $$ and prizes generously donated by the vendors who are in support of FB? If a manufacturer wins, they might sell more cars, and get their donation back? Call me naive, but the rules are already in place. Those prone to abide by them, will. Those that aren't, won't, now or ever.

I am totally on the "integrity of the drivers" side of the fence. I don't even want to take the pan off my engine to fix the oil leak I developed by knocking the engine stand over. But I will.

[Sean Maisey]

Just how many motorcycle engine experts are certified to be SCCA inspectors, and how many of those will be at Atlanta?

Frog, I understand and agree with your basic point.

I know George Dean will be at the ARRC and I have heard rumors of other builders, so we might have the expertise there for this event at least. But, I think this is one of the weak points of the current FB rules.

This is fodder for another thread, but:
As things stand, most of us will feel the need to put in 2007/8 spec motors over the winter months, just becuase they make a little more power. I would prefer to freeze the HP or better yet dictate that all motors be at least two years old to qwell the urge to keep up with the 'motor of the month' club.

Sean

[RussMcB]

Maybe we need a new thread topic?

New topic started:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...722#post154722

[carnut169]

I know George Dean will be at the ARRC and I have heard rumors of other builders, so we might have the expertise there for this event at least. But, I think this is one of the weak points of the current FB rules.

This is fodder for another thread, but:
As things stand, most of us will feel the need to put in 2007/8 spec motors over the winter months, just becuase they make a little more power. I would prefer to freeze the HP or better yet dictate that all motors be at least two years old to qwell the urge to keep up with the 'motor of the month' club.

Sean

I'm glad George will be there. I'm not entirely sure he is the best tech guy... sure he knows more about engines than perhaps anyone but he is also the one who built a lot of them. It's like having the quarterback also ref a football game.

We need to have in place a seal that can be installed on the motor in the event of a protest. The competitor removes the engine, seal intact, and brings it (or ships it) to a dealer (suzuki, yamaha, etc) to verify its stock. If it is, the protestor pays, if not the protestee pays, is dq'd, and faces public embarassment.

I will most likely be installing an 07/08 motor this winter, like others. This does mean a new harness, power commander, dyno tuning, dash, etc. A sir would eliminate the need to go through this exercise every two years keeping the intent of the class in place- a low cost, high performance race car.

185 (175?) should be plenty.