SCCA reaching out to members

[Steve Demeter]

.I am sorry to say that many of last years competitors did not like the track and it's lack of history and ambience.I personally under estimated that particular points importance.I have been to the Glen,Mid Ohio, Road Atlanta,Road America etc.HTP will never be those tracks.The National Championship must be somewhere like that to make many of our competitors happy.As far as where do we go from here?Our BOD must work hard to find a more attractive venue for the Runoffs.I hope all concerned understand the task before us.We have created an event that offers very few options because of the sheer numbers involved.

Mike,
You are spot on and it is refreshing to hear a BOD member wit6h such honesty. In 2005 at MO, I accosted Andy Porterfield and pointed out the exact thing to him. Majestic track with history and nice enviroment for the participants.

The reply was "Well, we will just have to make some history".

It is nice to see you as a BOD member admitting such a mistake honestly and frankly.

Not many people would be a big enough man to do so.

[DaveB]

It is quite refreshing to hear the same rhetoric we heard when the Run-Off's left Atlanta and headed to a podunk area in Ohio. How short are memories are, no one seems to remember how bad Mid-O was the first year. I will say the spectator viewing area's are better at Mid-O but the facilities are not all run down (with history) at HPT. The staff and host region are well worth keeping the Run-Off's there.
I do find it alittle odd that for the number of posts on this thread the few number of entrant at the HPT events over the last two years. I would have thought everyone in SCCA had raced there.

Dave

[Jim Garry]

Here's a comment regarding the issue of a long tow being a reason for not attending the Runoffs in Topeka. I sincerely respect the opinion of those who dislike the physical layout of the track, the track's lack of historic value, and especially the treatment rec'd last year.

However, complaints about a long tow are confounding. Autocrossers, those peons, have the same tow for 6 minutes of track time plus the other events offered prior to the National Championship. And there are close to 1200 entries this year.

Dave Weitzenhof has it perfectly right. You go to compete and test yourself. You go for a chance at a National title.

Jim

[Purple Frog]

They fixed the easiest thing to fix. They brought on board the two best sportscar announcers in history to team up and be on the PA at HPT for this year's Runoffs!

and now to hear them say, "and winning FC class in this year's Runoffs, driving the ICP, Goodyear sponsored number 67 Citation, for his eighth national title....Dave Weitzenhof!"


Geez Dave, I told Mrs Frog the only reason you were going back to HPT was that Sherrie talked me into being on the crew again. I forgot to tell her about the competition, and the national championship, and the bit about 33 Runoffs in a row...

[kea]

The real problem being, for some tracks not going after the Run-offs, is not the lack of parking for 700 trailers, but is the fact that they need 700+ racers/trailers, to try and make up for the exorbitant fee they have to pay SCCA to host the event. There have been some tracks that have not placed a bid, because they saw no way of breaking even!
By the way, why is that rate so high (or even charged) and where does all that money go? It sure doesn't help with anything like the entry fees for this event!
Keith

[DaveW]

They fixed the easiest thing to fix. They brought on board the two best sportscar announcers in history to team up and be on the PA at HPT for this year's Runoffs!

and now to hear them say, "and winning FC class in this year's Runoffs, driving the ICP, Goodyear sponsored number 67 Citation, for his eighth national title....Dave Weitzenhof!"


Geez Dave, I told Mrs Frog the only reason you were going back to HPT was that Sherrie talked me into being on the crew again. I forgot to tell her about the competition, and the national championship, and the bit about 33 Runoffs in a row...

Hey, Froggy,

You're correct - the only reason we're going is for the "pleasure" of your company...

Seriously, your agreeing to be on our crew makes Kansas more palatable.

Another reason we decided to go to HPT again was that I started having withdrawal symptoms as soon as the Nelson National was over, thinking about not doing the Runoffs - as many have said, racing is like drugs...expensive, and hard to quit.

[Jim Christian]

Butch,
I still think your proposal has a lot of merit!
Jim Christian

[Larry]

I've seen a lot of ideas for changing the Runoffs. I haven't seen very much support for the status quo. Hopefully the BOD will institute SOME change! We may not end up with a perfect solution, but it should be a better one than what we currently have.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[modernbeat]

Who would have thunk it. The SCCA is actually reaching out to talk directly to their members! Bravo I say.

'Got a call from Jim Julow, CEO SCCA, yesterday. Seems Topeka is working the phones trying to talk to folks that did not enter this year. He asked why and I told him about the cost, track time and track revisions. As usual, everything seemed to be a bit of surprise to him but I respected the fact that he did call."

Now that the cat's out of the bag that HPT had to pay SCCA an additional $50k if attendance topped 650 entries, does that change how you think about JJ calling you?

[Rennie Clayton]

Now that the cat's out of the bag that HPT had to pay SCCA an additional $50k if attendance topped 650 entries, does that change how you think about JJ calling you?

Sounds to me like capitalism at its finest, FWIW. If we could find a way like this to financially incent the club to give us more track time, I guarantee you they would bend over backwards to accommodate whatever schedule tweaks are desired.


Cheers,
Rennie

[John LaRue]

It's "our" club is it not? Who are we trying to entice and why?

[Rennie Clayton]

It's "our" club is it not? Who are we trying to entice and why?

John,

It's "our" club, but we elect representatives to run it for us. Presumably they are making decisions that they feel are in the best interests of the club. In the case where their idea of the best interests of the club clash with yours, those are the folks that need to be incented to see things your way.

The "why" is a question that rests with you and anybody else that wants a change from the status quo.


Cheers,
Rennie

[modernbeat]

Sounds to me like capitalism at its finest, FWIW. If we could find a way like this to financially incent the club to give us more track time, I guarantee you they would bend over backwards to accommodate whatever schedule tweaks are desired.


Cheers,
Rennie

But this was a financial incentive for HPT to hope for <650 entries and to price their near-track services based on a smaller customer base. Ergo, higher prices for everyone.

[Ted Idlof]

I personally have not received this, but one of our FM guys forwarded an email from MazdaSpeed asking about his (competitor) view of MazdaSpeed being involved with SCCA. Apparently there is some friction. What is the history of the following comment which was taken from this email?

In October of this year at the SCCA Runoffs, one of our MAZDASPEED staff, there to support the Mazda competitiors at the event, was told by a prominent member of SCCA's Board of Directors that "SCCA doesn't need Mazda and Mazda doesn't need SCCA". As you can imagine we were shocked that the club leadership felt this way about MAZDASPEED involvement.

Apparently MazdaSpeed does not think this was a joke or taken out of context.

[stonebridge20]

You can read about the Mazda thing here.


http://prodracing.com/prodcar/viewtopic.php?t=8540

[RussMcB]

I personally have not received this, but one of our FM guys forwarded an email from MazdaSpeed asking about his (competitor) view of MazdaSpeed being involved with SCCA. Apparently there is some friction. What is the history of the following comment which was taken from this email?

Apparently MazdaSpeed does not think this was a joke or taken out of context.

I wonder what led up to that comment by the BOD member. Was Mazda asking for something?

[Wren]

before I take the time to read a 10 page thread, do they ever say which BOD member said that?

Does anyone have the context that it was said in?

[Douglas Brenner]

Its not that its too far to drive, its not worth a drive thats that far.

I drove to Montreal & Mont Tremblant from Chicago and it was a great experience, especially with a stop at the Glen on the way home for the national. Would do it again if time/money permitted. I did drive to HPT last year and chose to go elsewhere this year, and to go where I felt the experiences would be better.

You think Chicago to Mont Tremblant is a long trip! My driveway is longer than that. Pop on out to Infinion sometime. You will love towing over the Rockies and Sierras. We'el leave the light on for you!

[Joefisherff]

I plowed through it and it never says who said it. I am glad to report that Mike Sauce is aware of the situation so I'm sure we won't be left out. With as much support that Mazda throws SCCA member's way I can't believe someone in a leadership position would say something like that. I do have to say that we are much more civil on this board than that board - wow!

[RussMcB]

On the face of it, it sounds like a very unwise statement from an SCCA official. However, I'd like to hear the other side of the story. You'd think no one would say something like that for no reason. I can't help but wonder the events that led up to it. Maybe (wild guess), the SCCA official had listened to enough unrealistic requests and decided to stick up for club members by not pandering. Who knows? Hopefully enough right minded folks will have the most accurate information and make the best decision to try to make it right.

[Larry]

It's possible to theorize all kinds of scenarios regarding what the director said/may have said. Let's look at what we know for certain:

o A major supporter of club racing is extremely pissed of at the SCCA! They are threatening to withdraw their support and possibly take an active part of the racing community with them!

Knowing this fact, if I were the CEO of SCCA, I would ask to meet with MazdaSpeed and try to smooth out the problem! A great deal of damage has been done, but it isn't too late to make amends. The only question is whether the egos of the players will allow them to do the right thing.

I've been through this kind of situation before. It's surprising just what you can accomplish with a little humility and an apology. As far as the particular BOD member, I don't know if there is any mechanism in the SCCA by-laws that allows for recall, and even if the recall was successful, it wouldn't accomplish what we want.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[John Nesbitt]

Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves here? We don't know precisely what was said, by whom, under what circumstances.

Before we organize a necktie party, let's get all the facts.

[Ted Idlof]

Don't know if this thread adds anything, but Spec Miata guys are right in the middle of it. Looks to me like it mushroomed from some narrow and specific production car parts/rules debates.

[rickb99]

What the specifics of the discussion was about is irrelevant. What started it is irrelevant.

Depending upon how the Topeka 'food chain' goes, the only person(s) with the authority to make such comments to Mazda would be the CEO, Chairman of the Board, or the President.

If it wasn't one of them or upon THEIR authorization, it never should have been said. If it WAS said with their authority then we have a right to know why. If without their authority then THEY need to get moving to correct the situation.

Yes, Ted.
Tim Buck of MazdaSpeed laid out the underlaying problem pretty clearly in his post on the issue. Looks like it was a who "has more suction" with the SCCA between manufacturers and Mazda got bit in the you know without due process. One of apparently many problems they've had with SCCA.

Speaking of Mazda's:
We used to have "good sized" fields of FM's here in the Northwest. There were several semi's full of arrive and drive cars and a good number of self maintained at every race. I've noticed all through 2007 season a serious lack of them at either major sanctioning body's events. Been wondering where they went. Hmmm...

[John LaRue]

how does this impact formula car racing? (FM excepted of course)

[rickb99]

Well, lets see. If this became a serious pull out, think about this. Remove 35 to 45 SM and other Miata's from the regional/national entry list and how much would your FC entry fee go up?

I'm pretty sure most of these Miata guys will go race where the contingency awards are.

[RussMcB]

how does this impact formula car racing? (FM excepted of course)

More track time? :-)

[cooleyjb]

how does this impact formula car racing? (FM excepted of course)

FSCCA would be one thing to think about.

Well, lets see. If this became a serious pull out, think about this. Remove 35 to 45 SM and other Miata's from the regional/national entry list and how much would your FC entry fee go up?

I'm pretty sure most of these Miata guys will go race where the contingency awards are.

The contingency chasers will go to where the awards are. The other 90% won't go anywhere. NASA isn't everywhere yet either.

[Allen_W]

NASA isn't everywhere yet either.

NASA has no formula car classes, right?

[D.T. Benner]

I think they are going to be doing something with the Older Formula Mazdas?

[cooleyjb]

NASA has no formula car classes, right?

Yeah but you are a spec miata racer now anyways...



I think it'd be great if NASA actually got some open wheel competition. However I'm curious how the NASA regulars will accept it. If they take FM that might mean they'd have a wings and things group which might take FC, CFC etc....


All in all this is a bunch of talk. Mazda isn't dumb enough to run away from SCCA. They have a good thing going with their customers right now. Mazda engine programs in SCCA, SCCA pro racing endeavours, etc. Have the comments by SCCA affected their sales to Mazda customers. I doubt it. Will the dropping of SCCA support affect their sales. Absolutely. That is why it won't happen in my opinion. This is a pissing contest that is being poorly handled by both sides it would seem. However right now with Mazda airing the dirty laundary this way does seem a bit odd.

[Allen_W]

I followed the links to the fender websites and found the discussion there really odd. Ok, I am a middling regional type not linked into the abstruse politics of the SCCA, sponsorship, and contingency money. Still. Very nasty dialog--and so much time to write such long posts. Much jumping to conclusions. Everyone seems ready to believe the worst about the BoD. Throw the bums out and all that. A lowly regional racer like me doesn't have insight into all that. I know exactly one member of the BoD--and he understands more about racing than I ever will, has the best interests of racers at heart, and is an eminently fair person, with the experience and cojones to back it up. I find the rhetoric and reality a little hard to match.

I can't think of anything I like doing more than race weekends. When I log onto these boards, I realize that it is only my naivete, all-around stupidity, and blind enjoyment of the sport that give me the illusion that I'm having fun when we race.

I realize, of course, that when the Atlantic Ocean used to be something, everything was also better about the SCCA. I believe it, too. I suppose something is wrong, judging by recent turnout. I've been in fields of one recently. Bigger fields would certainly increase the fun factor. Even four years ago, when I started racing the Van Diemen, numbers were better. Midwestern Council doesn't seem to have seen the fall-off we have at SCCA regionals. That said, the rhetoric in this case seems overblown. The story seems pretty typical, rules interpretation and procedural decisions to which a manufacturer has taken exception. Nothing new there--and certainly not a pretext to tear down the house. Mike Sauce's comments made sense to me--lower the temp, talk it out, stop the flaming. Of course, I don't know enough about lightweight roofs and various option packages in SSB to have a clue.

Anyway, I do want the record to state that with the lap times I was doing in the Miata this fall I am not yet racing the thing! I plan to bring it to Texas this winter for lapping days and stick to the Ford for racing . . .

[Alan Oppel]

To define, a 'club' is a group that is governed by it's members. Our club has voted to take control away from the members, and give deciding votes to a selected few called a committee, and further removing member interaction by removing rules proposals from common view and requiring an active pursuit of information rather than simply informing all members through our regular publication.
We are a diverse group, our monthly publication got to the hands of every member, why did that change? Did not my view matter, or did I not make my feelings known? very possibly the latter.
I applaud the desire to know what the members think and want.

I support the idea of our selected governing group to ask and poll the masses for information and opinions. Let us all be responsible and champion causes that are beneficial to as many members as possible rather than self serving.
Alan

[jonbaytos]

Alan have been trying to get a hold of you. Give me a call Jon 727 744 5255