Entry Fees too high
Lime Rock entry is $325.00. I like to give to the worker fund, so then I am at $375.00 to walk in the door.
I am low budget, so we don't even talk about new tires.
This is just too much for my level, basically $1000.00 for a low budget race weekend. And you guys know that is the bottom.
How can the SCCA attract a younger group when it costs $1000.00 to run in the back of the pack? I know if I was in high school I could not do it.
Yes entry fees are godawful. Lime Rock is something like $56,000 to rent I believe. I even think $280 for a regional at summit point or beaver run is silly too. Not to mention the costs for tire on top of that!! The SCCA needs to do something in the next two years about entry fees and costs in general or I fear there will be very few club racers still around. Circle track entry fees are usually under $100, piles of track time, and prize money. What can be done to fix this? I have no idea, but something needs to be done and in a hurry.
Originally Posted by F500Frank79
I never paid an entry fee for circle track, just bought a pit pass. Usually 20.00 or so. Also, no licence needed, no driver school etc. Just show up, race, go home. What a concept.
Something about spectators- paid admission- My local 5/8ths mile dirt track has 5000 through the gate every Saturday night all season; thats why the entry fee is low to non-existant and they pay prize money.
Then again, ask them what they pay for their cars...the motors alone, even in the sportsman classes are very, very expensive.
Racing competitively costs money, no matter what form.
----------
In memory of Joe Stimola and Glenn Phillips
Lime Rock has raised their fees every year for many years now. Their fees will put some regions out of the business of putting on races.
Jim
I wish I understood everything I know.
Ovals
The costs of the oval motors did get a little crazy. But here in NE, they are really attacking it. We have a few "lites" divisions that are a few thousand for a motor. Pretty reasonable.
Back to SCCA, I know racing is expensive, but it is usually the car and tires. The entry fee is going to be the cost of a set of tires pretty soon.
Golf and Boating are really starting to look more attractive to me.
Some where along the path to higher entry fees (and fewer club racers as a percentage of the population) the SCCA LOST the concept of the paying public at 'club level' events. Remember the saying... 'In the beginning......' Yes, the SCCA DID invite the public to come out and pay to see amateur racing.
As a young lad, when the SCCA was racing in Tucson, every auto parts store and half the gas stations in town had a poster in their windows advertising the event. The public came, they paid, they watched and some even joined the club. Entry fees you say? What's that?
If you don't invite the public, how do they know you're racing? When I stop for a coke or gas and I have on anything related to SCCA racing on (like a flaggers shirt) it usually goes something like this.... 'Oh, cool, road racing. Where do they do that. I really enjoy it? I didn't know that was in the area.'
Until the SCCA makes an effort to 'draw' the public to the track(s) for amateur racing, entry fees will go up with NO relationship to inflation (i.e. drivers incomes). And, the source for new participants will be from who (a driver) can talk whom (a friend) into giving it a go.
Just off the track but on the same path:
There's a lot of talk about the 'graying' of the worker staff. Same story guys, until the PUBLIC (say younger people) come out a get a 'taste' of the SCCA, us gray guys just gotta talk other gray guys into helping out.
CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
fees tied to track maintenance?
One component of the track rental fees has got to be the maintenance fees for the track.
Seems like it would cost a lot more to repave a 2.54 mile track (rd atl) than lanier speedway across the street ( 3/8 (or 1/2) mile oval)
property taxes on 540 acres vs 30 acres etc
road racing facilities are much bigger than the local oval racing facilities and so are more expensive to build and keep up.
nascar ovals don't count for this discussion since they are big business, not like the local amature (sp??) tracks that cater to the hobbiests like us.
Low Budget and Racing Don't Mix
If the racks could generate more income from spectator ticket sales our entry fees would not be so high. I don't know if too much of our membership dues are being wasted in Topeka on personnel, pro racing or Enterprises instead of advertising local races but that's subject matter of another topic. One thing I do know is the rental for tracks has gone out the roof. We compete against every other organization that wants to rent the track and as any smart business should do the track charges what the market will bear.
Vote with your money. If the price is too high don't do it. It might not be what you want but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Tom Sprecher
ATL Region Treasurer
Why can't we have spectators. At the regional at watkins glen all but one of the grandstands were closed. It's almost like they don't want anyone there. SCCA racing has so many classes it seems like a great sell. I think we really need to start promoting these races. Will it ever happen? Probably not.
The following is just my uninformed opinion.
My assumption is that there are valid reasons SCCA regions do not promote races. I'd suggest you contact whomever you think should be doing it and asking them why they aren't. You will either get a satisfactory answer, or you may decide your region needs to make some changes in personel or policies.
My gut feeling is that many people have considered it and the cost is greater than the value. It's hard enough to get enough people to volunteer for the required positions needed to put on a race. If you add more tasks, such as promoting a race, you'll need more volunteers.
Regarding the high cost of enty fees: Everything boils down to supply and demand.
Racer Russ
Palm Coast, FL
This year, a single regional at Summit Point is $225, and the Labor Day double is $350. That's less than Lime Rock, but more than some other tracks. It depends on the track, and the market, and competing demands for track usage.
At some point, you have to acknowledge that racing is expensive. It will never be as cheap as bowling. The real question is, is it worth it to the individual?
For my part, I don't see a huge difference between a $200 entry fee and a $300 entry fee. What I look for, more and more, is quality of racing: what are the run group assignments, and how many cars will likely show up in my class.
John Nesbitt
ex-Swift DB-1
Entry Fees are too high.
I will agree that the cost of racing has gone up but so has everything else.Think about it.A FForiginally costs $2995.00 and at some Ford Dealers an open trailer was included.A Mustang costs $3000.00 then and now a FF costs 15-40K and a Mustang is $30K.Gas is 3.00 a gallon and entry fees used to be $35-$50 and now they are 10 times that.Our entry fees in the SW Division are consistent with the numbers I am hearing and we don't have Limerock,Watkins Glen or VIR to choose from.Motor racing is expensive and has always been that way.The big hoax is that it is for everyone regardless of your ability to pay.Just like Spec cars are cheaper to race than non Spec cars.It is all a conspiracy to make us think we are all equal.We are not equal when it comes to money some have it and some get by.I never got to drive any racecar that was prepared with the best of everything like the Graham Rahals or Marco Andrettis of the world, why you ask? Because I could never afford it.I chose to compete realizing I could not spend with the majority of competitors.I chose to take it for what I assumed it was.It is not cheap and it can be cruel and unjust at times but it is what it is, the most fun you can have sitting down by yourself with your clothes on.
Fees
This year I have spent $1595 for 9 races/ 5 race weekends (4 doubles and a single). This equates to an average of $177 per race or $319 per weekend. This seem reasonable; however, it could be less.
The SCCA management, regions and members should consider selling title sponsors for race weekends. $5,000- to $10,000 gets your company name on the supps, entry forms, timing and scoring sheets & PA broadcasts. Sell sponsorship for the track entry/ hot pit braclets- $2000 gets your companies name on everyone's wrist (they wear em' all weekend long). Provide the sponsors the ability to set up a site in the paddock for meet & greet. Implementing solutions like these will drive our costs down by $25 to $50 per weekend.
I agree that the club needs to review spectator policy. In my opinion, advertising on local radio/ newspaper would draw a decent sized crowd if the track admission was less than $20 a head. Spectors would see a full day of racing ranging from sports racers, formula cars, fire breathing GT1 cars to production based Showroom Stock and IT. It sounds like a lot of bang for the buck. This would A) Reduce entry fees B) Increase the ability to market race sponsorship (see paragraph above) C) Help grow membership- more racers, crew members and corner workers (much needed)
Last edited by jattus; 07.31.07 at 8:19 AM.
races
To me, $325 to walk in the door is expensive. I don't have tons of money to spend and I think how that money can do something else.
If you have the thought of, "who cares...200, 300, 400, it ain't that different"; we see things differently. If I had the money to not care, I still would care.
At the basic element, SCCA is happy with 100 cars at $300, rather than 400 cars at $100. Or growing the club, getting more people involved and so on.
As for specators - I ran the July 4th race at LRP. On Sat there was an ALMS race there. I had no idea and I follow racing. They and SCCA do nothing to advertise.
I know one thing, If you do not advertise or invite spectators, they will DEFINITELY not show up.
So rather than do some hard work, the theory seems to be, just have the racers pay everything. Then add stupid extra costs like the fuel line valve to add the one additional danger to the sport.
As a current Re and long time board member of Western Ohio, I can tell you sponsorships are difficult to impossible to sell to someone who actually is a legitimate sponsor.
That means someone who is not in the club and has a business whith money to spare.
The obvious reason is what do they get for their money. Not a whole lot becuase there is no exposure for them except to a relatively few people.. Namely the participants.
Indy Region did and to the best of my knowledge has their national race as a spectator event and they did promote it, I thought, pretty well.
The spectator turn out was small to be kind.
There are simply too many things that compete for people's time and money compared to as little as 10 or 15 years ago.
And while we do have some great racing, unless someone is a rabid fan, they are not going to pay to watch a club race. Too many classes and several running at the same time is not enticing to the causual fan.
Nothing changes!!
As a past member of scca, I have to agree 110%. I started in 1970 something.. in a F/P Spitfire and after a few seasons went to A/SR and a few Can-Am races in a 5 litr. LOLA. We called it the 'Secret Car Club of America'. In my opinion and several others at the time..there was little or no promotion of the entire club..I feel your pain. After the scca dumped the A/SR and Can-Am thing..I dumped them.I was hoping to see that the club had gotten their stuff together. Guess not..not to my susprise. Mike Canan
Up here in Ontario, spectator admission and overcrew passes were charged at $15 each by the park. Then the region got the bright idea of 'buying the gate' on behalf of the organizer clubs, which also shared some of the cost. Doing so allowed the region to print and distribute its own admission tickets.
At the same time, it threw its promotional weight behind a single 'semipro' class to headline the schedule and attract spectator interest (the 'touring car' concept seemed timely). Most of these spectators were potential entrants or guests of current competitors. So as a competitor, for your CD$325, you get to invite all the friends, suppliers and supporters you like. A bit easier to get that small supplier 'sponsorship' or discount if you can throw 'em a whack of tickets, it turns out...
What's happened? Well, ticket distribution's not all it can be (we still need more volunteers on that), but even then, we've put the sport in front of a load of people who wouldn't otherwise have made it out; some of these spectators are photographers, and we've got more pictures of our competitors' cars floating around, garnering yet more interest; and interestingly, guys have been coming out of the solo ranks into the regional sedan ranks in bigger numbers than before, since they get the region's communications first and most consistently.
Spectators
My understanding is (and please correct me if I am wrong) that Lime Rock charges the SCCA more since our events are spectator events then it does clubs like VSCCA since they are non-spectator events. And guess who keeps the gate, Lime Rock. Only dif I see is that since we are a spectator event I get 3 crew passes then everyone else pays to enter. At the VSCCA non-spectator events I can invite 100 people and all they have to do is sign the waiver????
The July 4th event was a non-spectator SCCA event, no charge to get in. I had lots of crew that day.
EAC
After a quick perusal of this thread I still do not see the issue of insurance. The insurance cost per car between a spectator event and a non-spectator event is staggering.
I agree with Mike Sauce about the general assumption that everyone should be able to tace. This depletes the worker force.
Also, compare the "increase" in entry fees with the increase in the cost of an average race car. I would posit they are in line. I bought my first race car (Datsun Fairlady) in 1975 for $1000, complete ready to race with some spares. That was a top flight, ex-Bob Sharp car. IIRC the entry fees were somewhere around $100.
I'd venture that the costs of good race cars have more than tripled since then. So, why not the entry fees? Get ready for more increases due to worker shortages and the need to pay workers.
There are just so many racing dollars out there and when these renegade "clubs" are formed because they don't like the way the Club operates they do nothing but hurt the overall sport through the dispersion of those racing dollars. (BTW, next time you are at one of their events, or a marque-specific event, or a "track day" check out their insurance coverage closely - you might be surprised - especially when motor sports are being excluded more and more from personal and business accident policies.) Those that accuse the Club of siphoning money from entry fees just do not care to understand the system and are always looking for black helicopters in the night.
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
The Cost of Racing
Always interesting issues - entry fees, overall racing costs and what SCCA should be doing about it. I “gave up” on LRP a couple of years ago and chose to drive to Watkins Glen instead even though LRP was about an hour from my home at the time whereas WGI was six hours away. But the entry fee at WGI was $225 for a double regional (long course, short course) and the on-track time – on a GP track! - was greater, the atmosphere was less intense somehow. LRP’s rental rates are probably the highest in the US due, primarily, to the laws of supply and demand and to the fact that it’s world famous and in a great location. The marque clubs can out-pay the Regions so up goes the price. That situation is, in great part, the reason NER is pursuing its own track. If there was another place to play in New England, the two tracks – LRP and NHIS – would not so clearly drive the rates. Of course, to compete with LRP – only a couple of hours from NYC - any new track with have to be as “classy” as LRP too!
When I started racing in 1983, the entry fee was $65. It could be that if you do the math, $300 today isn’t so far out of line from a pure inflation point of view. No? But then, as a comparison, I bought a little-used National motor for $2,750 back then from Joe Stimola – still warm off the dyno! These days, a comparable power plant can probably be had for $6,000. Fact is, on the basis of inflation engines and engine parts have gone down, not up! Top notch nationally competitive chassis were $10-12,000. in 1984. But even today, you can buy a pretty slick Swift for $14,000 and potentially win the RunOffs with it!
The whole question of paying spectators is an extremely complex one and if it was all that simple, it would have been pursued before. I think a little research will show it doesn’t work. You have added advertising, insurance, added track staffing issues – all sorts of complications. And in the end, the track will take the money anyway.
As far as the SCCA “promoting” amateur racing, that somehow doesn’t fit the nature of the sport. It’s a club. If you’re interested then you join it. Name another amateur sport that promotes itself or sells tickets to its events. Most members I know became aware of the SCCA through magazines and through word of mouth. It takes a real car nut to get into this game and a car nut seeks out racing, knows about local tracks and is fanatical about learning about available racing options.
Racing costs – tires, gas, fees – have gone up but think about how much the sport has also moved upscale by the nature of the level its current competitors strive to achieve. Even though a fundamentally sound formula car can be had for $6-7,000, there are no “shoestring” racers anymore. And ten years ago, pretty good cars were about the same price. Regionals used to have a fair number of guys running on meager budgets and enjoying it. No more. Name anything – tow vehicles, trailers, spares, scales, safety gear – every competitor has absolutely top drawer stuff. Probably three or four sets of spec tires per year. Maybe a spare engine in the trailer. Shocks alone! A front running CF with less than $4,000 in shocks on it is an anomaly, a dinosaur. “Standards” have risen – the bar has been raised guys and along with it, the costs have risen too.
Charles hit it on the head with the insurance question.
In 1977 Central Florida Region took a gamble on a spectator event at the Gainesville Raceway. The extra insurance premium for a spectator event was $6,000 for the event. It rained, the region took a bath on that event. CFR has not had a spectator event since. One can guess what the spectator insurance premium is today compared to 1977.
In addition to the insurance, one must consider all costs related to security, how many people would it take to make the facility secure, to keep spectators out of the grid area, pits, etc.
Most regions have enough of a task to have workers work the track.
If a SCCA member wishes to attend a CFR event at Daytona or Sebring, all one has to do is to present their membership card at registration, and you get your credential free of charge. I have been to SCCA races at Moroso, which the track promoted as a spectator race, I presented my SCCA membership card at registration, and had to pay to the going rate for a spectator ticket to enter the track to watch the races.
Those 'other clubs' as defined above are siphoning off drivers. Although none of these have achieved the 'nationwide' status of the SCCA, they are soaking up HUGE amounts of racing dollars in Divisions, diluting the regional SCCA's negotiating power with local tracks. It's a shame it can't be reversed.
Last edited by rickb99; 07.31.07 at 12:52 AM.
CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
Strange Comments
I think the comments about the other clubs hurting the SCCA are strange. If the SCCA was so good, I don't think there would be other clubs. Clearly they must offer something that the SCCA does not.
Just because a product mirrors inflation does not make it right. If a Hershey bar was $25,00 would you buy it?
And all this talk about how difficult it is to have spectators is a little strange too. There are way more oval tracks in this country that can break even by having spectators. So it can be done.
The fact is a track like LRP is in the business of renting a track, not putting on a show or satisfying customers. SCCA is in the business making business cards for people who want to say they work in the racing industry. The local club volunteers are the real SCCA.
The new track manager at Waterford Speedbowl (oval) stands at the gate and greets the customers. He also grabs a broom and sweeps when needed. He needs to keep his customers happy which are the spectators and the drivers. He is hurting for money, and is trying to build a business.
For the SCCA and road racing it seems to be easier just to raise fees rather than do some hard work. I guess it is just a different model that seems to be on the way towards self-destruction. If there was not Spec Miata, I bet there would be a bigger cry to control the fees.
JC
This is a very good point. At the least, competition from other organizations should keep SCCA on its toes. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, the leakage from SCCA to other groups makes the situation worse still for open wheelers who remain with SCCA.
Two thoughts. First, the oval tracks put on a show which is more spectator-friendly. You can sit in the stands and watch a bunch of similar cars race with each other, and see the entire race. Road racing is singularly spectator-unfriendly. I haven't been to a track where I could see all, or even most, of the race course. Combine that with the alphabet-soup race groups, and you have a very difficult sell for the average passer-by. To be brutally honest, I wouldn't pay to watch me race.
Second, your manager at Waterford has a completely different set of incentives from the leadership of an SCCA region. His livelihood depends on the gate. This is much closer to the NASA business model. The SCCA, and particularly its regions, is a club. The region RE has his (or her) hands full simply ensuring that there is an adequate number of volunteers to staff the specialties. I am fortunate to be a member of a 'jumbo' region (WDCR) and even we are hard-pressed to staff the basics. Every time the SCCA tries to be something it isn't (eg. a for-profit business) it stubs its toe.
I presume that you are a member of the SCCA. Try talking to your RE, and get the lowdown on staging a spectator event. If your are not daunted by what you hear, try volunteering to make it happen. The SCCA is a volunteer organization, and without volunteers nothing will happen.
John Nesbitt
ex-Swift DB-1
Entry fees too high
The SCCA is a club for it's members to enjoy motorsports.It is not the only game in town and in general motorsports has diluted from only SCCA to many other organizations that do similar events.SCCa still has the best racing program for competition considering rules enforcement,safety and credibility.Now does that mean that other organizations can't have events that offer enjoyment to certain motorsports enthusiasts absolutely not.The tracks and the workers are affected negatively by all these other events.Remember SCCA trains and organizes the workers that are necessary to all of these events.SCCA assumes the costs of that as well.Spectator races are easy. Every race in the SW Division is a spectator race except our Drivers Schools.It does not generate that much more income but it does help with security within the different areas.I believe it is $500.00 more a weekend for spectator events than non spectator events.We usually have a sponsor for some of our bigger events and we print tickets and sell them to local businesses to either sell or give away.I usually buy a couple dozen and then give them away to my customers and friends.Most of the time these people show up and have a good time seeing something they would never spend $150.00 to see when the PRo races come to town.We usually get a few new members and it helps the community in a small way.The last 3 years at out Double National we had over 100 volunteers from a local charity group and have raised 30k plus for them since we started.Think outside the box it is not as limiting.Try to have a spectator race and put flyers out.Don't wait for someone to come up with a master plan the members from the 60's are still waiting for that.Road Racing is a great time if people know what when and where and if it is not too expensive you might be surprised at how many people show up.We have had as many as 8-9K spectators at TMS.
It is a totally different model. These alternative clubs are able to focus on their own narrow set of concerns and they offer (IMO) a watered down version of the sport. Very little organization, a run-what-you-brung mentality often, little financial protection, much less professionalism and expertise, etc. Sure, if you lessen the product, lessen the area of scope, and cut quality you can always go for cheaper. The SCCA is focused on a much wider group of issues. Whether this is appropriate is another thread. When you try to be all thing toall people often all things suffer.
But, to imply that these other groups are playing on a level field with the SCCA is misleading.
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
yup.
It is what it is, i just woke up from a dream, where racing was free, and all the money was distributed from the fans' gate fees just to keep the show going.
Guess the club musta owned the tracks in that dream, rather than having to rent them at five-figure prices.
Fee
Everyone makes sense. But the bottom line is 325 is a lot of money for some people.
For me it will keep me out of races, or keep me away completely.
For some new kid in high school or something, You need the car, build it and all the other bits like a truck and trailer. Then you tell him, that it is 325 a race. And don't forget, it is all gone if there is a problem. So it is an issue if you want drivers on the track.
And no offense, but screw this "club" idea. Yes there are really great volunteers when it comes to the event. But when it comes to money, it is not a club.
I had a freak problem last year at the two day drivers school in NHIS. I got less than a few minutes at the first session. My two day school fee of 475 was gone. I asked, well since it is a two day school, can't I have credit for the one day i don't make or something. Nope, all gone.
If it were my club, I'd say, sure we can work something out.
The extra cost for Spectator insurance on an SCCA weekend is $250.00.
Our region is not able to talk our Solo folks into driving 140 miles to watch our races even with no charge for admittance.
The Kansas region had an annual "thank you" race at HPT every year where spectators from Topeka were invited to watch at no charge. I don't remember seeing anyone in the bleachers that wasn't with a driver. I guess we are not fun to watch.
Greg Scharnberg
I think this accurately points out what Mike Sauce was alluding to. This sport is not for everyone. There are considerations that must be taken into account. For too long we have tried to make it possible for anyone to race by providing for cheap race cars as a method of attracting more racers (i.e. IT - at least conceptually.) but no one looked at the overall costs.
Your missed 2 day school was unfortunate, but stuff happens. Several years ago I calculated that I spent $5000 for a lap at Atlanta when I considered the costs of the rebuild, entry fees, travel, etc. No one to blame but the racing gods.
A good rule of thumb is that no one should race if they can not afford to come back to the pits with nothing but a steering wheel. Certainly NEVER borrow money for a race car. Does this mean that many who want to race can't? Yep. It is what is is. A race car is possibly the most fleeting and quickly disappearing asset imaginable. Now you see it - now you don't. If you can't continue living in your same lifestyle or family situation with the complete destruction of your bolide then go karting. Sounds callous, but life often is.
Charlie Warner
fatto gatto racing
'Cause there's bugger-all down here on earth!
Gosh Charles, I have to disagree with most of that. Until we get our car on the track next year, I've been doing F&C for 3 clubs in our region for the past 5 years. SCCA, SOVREN vintage club and the 'other club' as it's known within the definitions of this thread.
Considering that the SAME voluneers in F&C show up for all THREE clubs I cannot tell the diference in concerns for safety. Well yes I can, that 'other club' would have provided me more protection last weekend when I and a driver were walking 12 feet off the racing surface in the highest speed braking zone on the track (of course no driver is slowing that extra bit out of concern for us). Would you believe some SCCA 'wheel' (not from my region) chewed me out for wanting a waving yellow? Yes, cause that's not what the 'procedure' saysBut I don't mind, I have an unwarrented trust of drivers
Quality of the product from a drivers perspective? Sadly, that 'other club' has larger fields including most of the FF's, FM's, SM's and tin tops in the area. The quality of the racing is good.
The 'run what you brung' thing isn't quite true either. They actually have a rule book defining the do's and do nots for each class. Although FC's (very few up here) run as FL's there, that just means we could use a fully FROG'd engine
Now at least as a voluneer, I don't see the inner workings of tech, stewards and drivers services. But I can say that ALL the people in ALL specialites that I've met BOTH in SCCA and the 'other club' are personable and friendly. But there is little cross over at that level between clubs. The one seriously strong point of the 'other club' is, almost every single race weekend includes NOVICE races open/closed wheel in their own sessions. Thereby allowing new drivers to move into club racing very quickly by still carrying novice stickers for a while.
How did all this happen? I don't know. But it does diminish the "whole" and increase costs to both by being fractured.
Oh, I should mention it costs me FIVE times as much to be a 'volunteer' for the SCCA then it does for that 'other club'
Last edited by rickb99; 07.31.07 at 6:37 PM.
CREW for Jeff 89 Reynard or Flag & Comm.
Karting is the answer to racers on a budget. $40 entry fees, $150 for a set of new tires, $100 engine rebuilds, easy towing,lots of competitors and BIG trophys! My 125 Honda/ shifter cost me $3500 and is cheap to run yet my Formula Atlantic felt slow compared to the wheel-spinning acceleration the shifter offers. I don't know about the Northeast but in in the central US there are lots great new kart tracks being built and you can also race karts on most car tracks. Drive a TAG 125 kart (6k new) and your Lola FF will seem really slow.Also in my opinion most karters are beter drivers than most SCCA racers simply because they race a lot more often.
Yep karting is an option for those with budgets, and something I'm sure many of us consider on a periodic basis. What may keep more people from going that route is the lack of sex appeal, it being considered less safe (The 125 shifters are awfully fast) and the youngness of the participants. The 125 shifters are awfully fast...
But still, the overall costs, keep me shopping for the best value for my racing $$$. Other then the occassionial SCCA School, my money get spent with some of these alternate clubs.
In a couple of weeks I'm going to check out a friend running a Kart at Oakland Valley and find out what thier costs vs fun ratio is.
Last edited by racer27; 07.31.07 at 6:12 PM.
AMBROSE BULDO - Abuldo at AOL.com
CURRENT: Mid Life Crisis Racing Chump/Lemons Sometime Driver (Dodge Neon)
CURRENT: iKart Evo Rotax 125 Kart
GONE: CITATION 87/93 FC - Loved that car
GONE: VD RF-85FF , 1981 FIAT Spider Turbo
You win
OK, I give in. $325 is a good price. Why stop there, make it $500 and create some prize money. Then add another 500 to make a $1000 to pay for workers at the track rather than volunteers.
Tough luck if $1000.00 entry fee is too much. That is just the cost of racing. If you can't afford it, go fishing.
And the point was about the school, It was a combined two day school. Two separate schools in one weekend. So I missed on and felt I should get credit for the other day.
So the SCCA is a club when it comes to volunteering to help the club. But when it comes to money, it ain't a club. Here I was a new "club member" needing a break. Fine, I turned on wheel on the first school, but not the second. So If I signed up for two separate schools and did not turn a wheel on the 2nd, I would not have lost any money, right? That was my point.
So there are tons of expenses and sorting out of things when you are new. And the entry has an impact on the new members.
So why is the SCCA greying, and counts dropping? Maybe more people care about the costs more than you think.
I have some very wealthy friends because of where I live. And I can tell you that a bunch are not racing in SCCA or Vintage because of the costs. One friend maintains pretty high end cars such as a Porsche 908's and F1 cars, and he only been to one event this year with his customers. So it ain't just my low buck operation who cares about fees and costs.
IMO, not refunding the fee for the second school is inexcusable. That is not an SCCA thing, that just means that the region putting on the event allowed an A$$hole to make the refund decision.
Greg Scharnberg
Sorry but this is just silly. If you are worrying about costs of a race weekend when owning a 908 and former F1 you need to do some serious analysis of what your issues really are because the cost of entrance fees is a drop in the bucket compared to a 500,000 dollar car. I know a number of people that are in the situation of not running many races because they aren't making racing a priority, not because of the entry costs being 350 bucks for a weekend.
"Club" ....whatever that really is.....
Ok.....so how about a move to rename the SCCA the SCAA..........the Sports Car Association of America [unless that name is already taken].......and the we can move on from the stupid excuse of > "we're just a club" mentality.
You win.
No Mr. Lola - they don't win. The level of support vs. playing "devil's advocate" is at times less than I think it should be for newcomers. YOU WIN everytime you get out and have a great time in your race car. Some of us are able to afford more weekends than others - some can afford $5K a lap. If your budget allows only 2-3 weekends a years - - GREAT to you or anyone else who sticks with the hobby they love ... even if at a moderate level. Most of us watch costs closely.
I agree that the club should have refunded you for the second school if it was organized such that you could have registered for a single or double event. When I run double events I typically send two checks to make is easy if I have mechanical problems early on. From my experience here in the SE - you would have been refunded. Don't let a bad apple spoil the pie.
Regards, Joe Riley
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