Tatuus F1000 Conversion

[sidney]

Well, I keep asking questions, so I guess it's time to start showing some pics. I keep harping on the old man to take a few more, but these will have to do for now. You can see the lower section of the rear structure is finished, and the "box" for the diff and suspension is being laid out. We will use stock suspension, including the shock mounts and sway bar. I stole lots of great ideas form other guys on this site. Thanks everybody, and thanks ApexSpeed.

[sidney]

The old man did a nice job on the carriers. These include a seal on the OD to keep dust out and grease in. The other pic is of the sway bar ears. We had to have new ears mounted on the outside of the structure where before they were mounted on the bell housing about 5" apart.

[RussMcB]

Yeah, baby! Welcome to the club. Your pictures look SO familiar - takes me back a few months.

This forum is great, isn't it? I'd have never lived through my project without the great help here.

Looking good. Glad you're making progress and sharing.

[sidney]

Thanks, the project is being done in Denver, and I'm in Iowa. I keep begging for more pictures, but they are slow in coming. We also had a little setback when the fabricator ran his fingertips through the table saw. It has slowed, but not stopped progress.

We are going to use a wet sump R1 motor, if you can't tell from the pics. Maybe these postings will produce a few more pics from Denver. We shall see...

[sidney]

More than a month since my last post. F1 race, funerals and other things have slowed progress but it is getting there. Here are some more recent pics of the conversion of the Tatuus. Kudos to my dad and Dave Tourtelot for laboring away. The suspension is hanging on the rear end! I can hear that motor humming in my ears right now. The build team says another couple of weeks and we should be ready to start the formal build to testing.

P.S. If anyone needs a crew member for the ARRC in November, I'm sure I can swing a trip down south for "work" that would include an extended stay in the Atlanta area. The tow is too far too fast for us to make it with the Tatuus this year. Will work for small amounts of food and whiffs of race fuel.

[RussMcB]

Looks good, Ian.

Glad to hear you'll try to come to the ARRC. It's going to be a great event. There will be all kinds of people happy to host you in November.

And I do mean, "all kinds" of characters. :-).

[jerry freeman]

What kind of differential is that?

[Purple Frog]

Ian,

I was going to convert my Tatuus before Sept. 25, 2005. It's slick that you folks are using the wizzy Tatuus castings for the rear shocks. Always thought it was a great chassis for the home builder because of the neat pieces that come on it stock.

Great job.

[sidney]

What kind of differential is that?

This is an "020" open VW differential. If we need to go to a different diff, we can reuse the plates and go to an LSD. My father works for a VW distributor and if anybody wants one, I know where I can get them CHEAP!

[sidney]

I've been getting a lot of requests about who supplied the sprocket for the diff. For reference, we worked with the guys at Rebel Gear and they were great. Easy to do business with and very reasonably priced for the 1 off special order. They can be found here:

http://www.rebelgears.com/

[sidney]

Russ asked who will be next. It won't be us, but here are some updated pics of the rear of the car. The "top" of the assembly is removable, so that the engine can be serviced without breaking the car at the firewall. Final mounting of the diff should be completed in the next two weeks, and then it's off for plumbing, bodywork, etc.

[RussMcB]

Thanks for the update. That is going to be a beautiful car. I love the look and high quality of the Tatuus chassis. Do you have a guess when it will be ready to drive?

[cparsons]

Sidney, I am using the 020 vw open diff also. I am nearly finished with the mold for the diff cover, just need to fit it with seals to keep the oil in. I was going to use carbon fiber for the cover but with all the noise about using carbon fiber I will probably construct with fiberglss and kevlar. If you're interested I will post some pics of the prototype cover.

[sidney]

Well, the rear of the car is finally back from the fabrication guy. As it seems with everyone else's build, about 3 month later than expected. The rear wing mount is not finished, but the motor is in there, chain turns freely and the chassis as you see it can be picked up and moved around with 2 guys and no additional assistance. Anybody have some feedback on what kind of chain tension I should be running (1/4", 1/2")? Now the fun begins.

[sidney]

Sidney, I am using the 020 vw open diff also. I am nearly finished with the mold for the diff cover, just need to fit it with seals to keep the oil in. I was going to use carbon fiber for the cover but with all the noise about using carbon fiber I will probably construct with fiberglss and kevlar. If you're interested I will post some pics of the prototype cover.

Somehow I missed this quote. The cover for sealing doesn't work well, and needs to be address during the build. I'd be interested in the cover. Send some pics to imacleod at sauer-danfoss dot com. Thanks!

[carnut169]

Looking good!

For the chain- the diffs like little to no slack, the chain does not. A good compromise is about 1/4". Remember that it will stretch and you need to be able to make finite adjustments.

[sidney]

It's tuff to see in the pics, but the diff is "adjustable" in 1/16" increments with different spaced shims. The other plus is you don't have to break the chain to take the diff off, or replace the chain. We can also take the diff out of the car without removing the sprocket.

[RussMcB]

It's tuff to see in the pics, but the diff is "adjustable" in 1/16" increments with different spaced shims. The other plus is you don't have to break the chain to take the diff off, or replace the chain. We can also take the diff out of the car without removing the sprocket.

Yeh, why are you being so skimpy with the pictures? :-).

I'm wondering if 1/16" is going to be too much. I use shims in my set up and even .035" makes a pretty noticeable difference.

Glad to see the car coming along. Can't wait to see it all together.

[carnut169]

I'd bet 1/16" is too much. Its amazing to think about but the trick is really to have a threaded adjuster of some sort. I can go from 1/2" of slack to bone-tight without a visible change.

[RussMcB]

Probably a good time to consider an easily adjustable idler sprocket. I'm considering adding them to my car for ease of adjustment.

[cparsons]

These 14 hour work days are killing me, but providing extra $$ for parts! I'll send you some pics of the cover asap (probably Saturday AM) It has 2 flanges to bolt through the diff where the ring gear attaches for insurance but the fit is very tight. It will make sense when you see the pics.

[sidney]

An idler means loss, and I already am down to the Ducatis. I'm sure we can come up with something that will work. Here's another pic that shows the diff better.

[Moore3FF]

Just curious. Your chain looks like it runs at an angle and that your diff sets at an angle. Is this correct or am I looking at the pics to hard?

[RussMcB]

An idler means loss, and I already am down to the Ducatis.

Ha! Good one!

No problem. Just put a little electric motor on the idler sprocket. :-).

[sidney]

Just curious. Your chain looks like it runs at an angle and that your diff sets at an angle. Is this correct or am I looking at the pics to hard?

Yes, the chain is at an angle ala Speads and Mike B.

[sidney]

Christmas break was great time to get with the build team and discuss where things will lay out. Attached are some pictures. The adjust system we designed would have worked great. What we didn't plan for was the clearance between the lower rear a-arm and the CV joint cover. This causes problems. We have desigend in an adjust idler that seems to work really nice. Kudos to my Dad for engineering the adjust system.

Also, we have obatined a paddle for the shifter and worked out a slick bell-crank system for the clutch (cable operated on the R1). This will allow us to adjust the clutch without messing with the pedals. We also placed the CM oil filter in the left sidepod. The pic with the tail is not too hot, but as you can see, we can fit the entire package under the existing fiberglass. We also have some ducting harware on order to pressurize the airbox over the driver's head. The top of the tail will be modified to accomdate teh duct.

More pics to come, but good progress is being made.

Special thanks to Mr. Parsons for for the diff cover. I still need to pay him for the slick fiberglass "cover" for the 020 diff. His price was beyond reasonable.

[RussMcB]

Looking good. Glad to hear/see progress.

A question about the idler sprocket: Is it supported on the other side? If it's mounted in single shear I might be worried that its mount might bend. It's hard to tell from the picture, and it's probably fine, but I thought it was worth asking, just to give you a chance to think about it now rather than later. On my car, I underestimated, or rather didn't imagine some of the stronger drive train forces, and I've had to go back and strengthen some areas (where my jack shaft was mounted).

Can't wait to see your car at the track. I bet you can't either. :-).

[sidney]

The build team is making great progress. The shifter was installed over the weekend. Very clean and easy to remove/change if needed. Ignore the nuts and carrige bolts, they were used for fit-up only. Progress, progress, progress.

[carnut169]

Looking good. Glad to hear/see progress.

A question about the idler sprocket: Is it supported on the other side? If it's mounted in single shear I might be worried that its mount might bend. It's hard to tell from the picture, and it's probably fine, but I thought it was worth asking, just to give you a chance to think about it now rather than later. On my car, I underestimated, or rather didn't imagine some of the stronger drive train forces, and I've had to go back and strengthen some areas (where my jack shaft was mounted).

Can't wait to see your car at the track. I bet you can't either. :-).

I had exactly the same thought- I'll bet that square tubing bends if left as-is.

[Jnovak]

It appears that your shifter rotates with the steering. This is cool if you can manage the fixed location of the cable end at the chassis. How are you making this happen?

What are the turns lock to lock on the Tatus steering & can your cables manage that much rotation?

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[sidney]

Maybe the picture is confusing. The aluminum "T" block is a fabricated piece that replaced the original column retention block.

I thought about this for a long time but I don't see a good way to mechanically do both upshift and downshift and allow the paddle to rotate. You could use a BMX Freestyle type brake detangler, but this is only good in one direction (pull) and generally are very hard to keep tight (no slop in the cables).

This one is a copy of the Stohr design with integration into the Tatuus chassis.

[Purple Frog]

I'm another voice saying that idler won't last the first day. Especially after cutting so much meat out of the square tube.

Can you put it in double shear by mounting it on an axle and just duplicate the adjuster mechanism on the other side of the chain. Looks like you have room.

[cparsons]

Special thanks to Mr. Parsons for for the diff cover. I still need to pay him for the slick fiberglass "cover" for the 020 diff. His price was beyond reasonable

.

Aww shucks, it weren't nuthin. There is an interesting story to go with the diff cover. I hope to have the opportunity to bore you with it some day.
I am not sure I knew you were running an R1. I am also. We could have collaborated and perhaps saved some time.

[cparsons]

I took a second look at the pic of the tail section and noticed the JATO rocket motor sitting on the floor in the lower right side of the pic. That should help out on long straights.

[sidney]

That JATO rocket is the only thing that makes working out in the garage in the middle of winter somewhat bearable. But now that you mention it, maybe I should start making friends with my local National Guard Unit.

BTW -- The idler is getting a makeover. Thanks to everyone for their constructive input.

[sidney]

Loads of progress made. I made a dedicated trip to Colorado this weekend to see the progress and try different things out. The shifter is done, it just needs to be finished welded into place. It is easy to pull and uses the same cable as the clutch, so only one spare is needed in the trailer. The clutch cable/actuation is complete. The back stop for the pedal needs to be lengthened, but the effort, modulation and stroke are perfect. The idler has been beefed up. Headers are tacked and off to be finished and coated. The water and oil have been routed. The only area of concern is the clsoe proximity of the #1 pipe to the water inlet on the motor. Some "manipulation" of the tube that goes into the motor is necessary. The airbox is closer, but not finished. The scoop for the airbox has been molded. When the airbox and scoop are complete, we will start wacking the tail until we get it to fit. Then it's on with more glass work to make it pretty. The throttle pedal is finished and meets the "double/redundant spring" rule. I ordered the muffler today. Lots of stuff still to do, but we are getting ever closer. I see a test day at Pueblo in the near future.

[RussMcB]

Looks good. I'd say you're about 80% done. :-).

Atlanta in November?

[sidney]

Lots of new things to report. Pictures to follow in 10 days after I see the car again.

Mr. Dean is done with the wire harness and it should be back in our hands before the week is out. All those darn DSR motors for the Sprints put a bind in his harness productivity. The airbox scoop is complete with racing filter element off of a TL1000R. The exhaust, including the muffler is finished, except for a weld issue with the original primaries (titanium?), so new sections are being fabricated from scratch. The diffuser is finished and should be mounted in the car by the end of next week. I think we are getting close to tearing it down, powercoating it, and then building it back up. We need to get that first test in before it starts to cool off too much.

[cparsons]

looking good. yep, the R1 primaries are titanium, or so I'm told. I had problems welding them too so I bent my own using left over 1 1/2" roll bar material. I have a TIG welder now but that's closing the barn door after the cows escaped. I just remembered something, gonna send PM.

[sidney]

A couple of updates on the progress. We found out that the easiest way to tell if something is titanium is to put it on the grinder -- white sparks = Ti. The revised headers are being set up and "repaired." The scoop does not look pretty, but fits great and just needs some paint. The BMC race filter is between the scoop and the box. The diffuser is fitted to the car and looks great. Just a small mod in the exhaust area. The car is now ready to tear down and have the chassis and suspension painted and the final build started. Hopefully we can get a test or two in before the snow flies. Already had snow in the CO Rockies last week!