My letter to the SCCA

[Thomas Copeland]

All you that promised me letters of support send them in...

This goes out today or tomorrow:

Proposal to Allow 8 x 10 wheels in Formula Continental

The purpose and motivation of this proposal is to maintain and improve the long term viability of the FC class. This can be accomplished in part by boosting the current FC participation numbers. Many owners of current F2000 cars are being unnecessarily excluded from participating in FC due to the lack of availability of 6 x 8 wheels currently mandated in FC.

Many of these F2000 car owners already own the larger 8 x 10 wheels that are specific to the West Coast Pro F2000 Series, the East Coast Pro series, and the now defunct Cooper Pro F2000 Series. These wheels were purpose made and specified for all late model F2000 Zetec-engine cars that are currently finding their way into SCCA FC competition.

While these late model Zetec-engine cars have now been allowed in FC, the wheels that were designed to be used on them have not.

The 6 x 8 wheels currently allowed in FC were never specifically intended to be used on these late model F2000 Zetec-engine cars.

It is not the purpose of this proposal to inflict undo hardship on any of the current competitors in FC. For as this proposal will show, it will not be necessary of any of the current competitors in FC to obtain 8 x 10 wheels to be competitive. This is because the users of these 8 x 10 wheels will be racing at a disadvantage to those using the smaller 6 x 8 wheels. Therefore, it will not be necessary for anyone to buy 8 x 10 wheels to stay competitive in FC.

Some of the reasons why we should allow 8 x 10 wheels in FC are as follows:



Increase FC participation

Allowing 8 x 10 wheels in FC will allow owners of cars in the current West Coast and East Coast Pro series to participate in SCCA FC.

The proposal to allow 8 x 10 wheels will facilitate crossover between the two Pro series (West Coast and East Coast) and SCCA club racing.



Cost and Availability (containing FC costs)


A major resource of 6 x 8 wheels, OZ racing has stopped the production of the 6 x 8 wheels that are currently used in FC. This has cutoff a major supply of these 6 x 8 wheels that are currently being used in FC. No other manufacturer has yet stepped in to fill this void.

There is a very limited availability in used 6 x 8 wheels for competition in FC. In fact, it is almost impossible to obtain used 6 x 8 wheels for FC. When they are made available, their cost has become higher than that of other classes when obtaining used wheels or rims.

This proposal will provide current owners of F2000 cars the option to compete in SCCA FC without dealing with the availability issues and costly purchasing of the smaller 6 x 8 wheels, whether new or used.

Technical and other variables

Given that nearly every other aspect of FC cars employ state of the art technology in shocks and aerodynamic devices this proposal will not influence any undue competitive advantage to the users of the larger 8 x 10 wheels. Quite to the contrary, the users of the larger 8 x 10 wheels will be a distinct disadvantage to users of the smaller wheels as the larger 8 x 10 wheels will be both heavier and suffer from more rolling resistance than the smaller 6 x 8 wheels.

...won't bore you all with the attached technical stuff...I think you get the gist of it...


Anyway, all of you that sent me emails saying you supported my proposal, time to send it in writing. This can't wait any longer.

[jattus]

I was under the impression OZ is still producing wheels; I think you have to contact Elan. Also, Kodiak, Jongblood's new company (forgot the name Aero something) and BBS produce 6 and 8 inch wheels.

I thought the reason that the 8 and 10 inch wheels are at a disadvantage is that they have to run a harder compound in the F2000 series. Is this correct? If so, what happens when you put a set of 8 and 10s with a super sticky tires in SCCA comp? Less tire wear but more stick? Faster lap times? If that is the case we just killed 90% of everyone’s wheel collection.

I could see this blowing up in our faces- You have to have 1 set of 6 and 8s for a track and 1 set of 8 and 10s for another. Not to mention what happens for rain tires (8 and 10 inch rims seem logical). I'm not a race engineer; heck I'm lucky to find the gas peddle, so would someone shed some light on this.

Once again, I'd like to hear others view points.

[Steve Demeter]

It sounds to me that the whole premise for the necessity of this proposal is the assumed lack of availability of 6 and 8 wheels.

That is simply not true.

Any number of manufacturers are currently supplying them.

See the post Jeff handley just put up under general discussion. Less than $1000 gets you a new set of wheels.

On the other hand if you run 8 and 10 with soft tires, then all the guys without them are gonna have to go out and buy new wheels and wider more expensive tires.

The whole idea of allowing Ztec into FC is to allow them to run where they can compete without smikong off all the many many Pinto cars out there.

Sorry Thomas, your idea just don't cut it with me.

If you want to run your Ztec in FC, cough up the bucks.

[Thomas Copeland]

What I heard: OZ no longer produces 6 x 8 wheels (something about broken molds). That is why the East Coast wheel deal has gone all sideways. That's what I heard anyway. And I'm not apportioning any blame here. But I'll see if can check with OZ before I mail that letter out (I had planned to double check it first anyway). Has anybody been able to buy new 6 x 8 OZ's since the start of the year?

I have "coughed up the bucks" and gotten 6 x 8 wheels. But I still feel that 8 x10's shouldn't be excluded. Which proves I have no "sinister motives" here.

There is no such thing as a "super sticky" or ultra soft compound 8 x 10 size tire for FC. At least not any softer than the current compounds available for 6 x 8's. And I'm not even sure those exists (I haven't been able to find any). So I don't see what advantage you are worried about here.

I haven't seen the $1000 wheel deal but I'm guessing it ain't for mag wheels like the OZ's. I know there are other manufacturers of 6 x 8 wheels but those wheels are mostly less desirable than the OZ's. That's why it's so difficult to get OZ's anywhere. I don't mean that as a slam aganist other wheel suppliers. I find their product to be good too. But OZ is the wheel of choice for many for a reason. But that's not what the proposal says anyway (it doesn't mention other suppliers.... it doesn't have to, it's a given that they exists). Just that availabilty has now gone down another notch while costs have gone up.

The wheels are at a disadvantage to the 6 x 8's. They are heavier than the 6 x 8's (come on...it takes more metal to make them... more metal = more weight). There's also more rolling mass. More rolling mass = slower rotation = slower speed. What? Did all you guys fall asleep in physics class? Where's Carl Sagan when ya need him?

Everybody is entitled to their opinion. Last time I checked your's count with the SCCA too. Write them a letter against the proposal (and apparently somebody already has!..even though I haven't mailed it in yet!). I won't take it personally.

[Steve Demeter]

Thomas,
Go up to FC General Discussion and read the thread on compmotive wheels started today.

Steve

[Thomas Copeland]

Great timing...

Looks like about $460 for set of fronts, $550 for set of rears. With tax, shipping maybe about $1200 for a set. Sounds like a good deal.

Okay, so now you really don't have a reason to complain about letting 8 x 10's in. Anybody can afford those ULTRA lightweight wheels to the MUCH HEAVIER and grossly disadvantaged 8 x 10's.

[Al Guibord]

Call Steve Jenner at Elan he has 25 sets of 5 spoke OZ's available. While there was a shortage of 6 and 8 wheels in the past that won't be the case moving forward. In addition to those, there is another manufacture making them here in the US that are due out in a 5-6 weeks.

I could not disagree more about allowing 8 and 10's into FC. They can not be completely equalized(we have tried) 8 and 10's were design for the old Cooper Series cars that ran at 170hp... 8 and 10's on a 140hp FC is way to much tire for the power the car creates.

It is unfortunate that there are still some folks out there with an out of date spec car, however the SCCA does allow them to run in FA. FC is specific formula that works very well there is no need to allow an out of date spec car into it.

[Greg Mercurio]

Thomas: You ain't gettin' much traction here.

Pun intended this time Merriman!

[Thomas Copeland]

See ya at TH Greg!

---if I beat ya at the rematch will you write the support letter? (I need all the help I can get on this one). (and you should know me well enough by now to know I wasn't going to drop this)..

Al, thanks for the info. I'll update my letter before I send it. You seem to be saying exactly what I'm been saying. When you dumb-down the horsepower there ain't no way you are going to get those wheels turning fast enough on 8 x 10's to keep up with those on 6 x 8's. I've driven both types of wheels and I can tell. It makes no difference what type of track you run on either. It's basic physics (and don't ask me for the equation!).

[Greg Mercurio]

Oh Thomas, I'm so looking forward to the rematch. No you can't buy my vote. Even if you beat me. You'd best get your right toes pointed down-track to do that. My car is working very nicely right now.

You might get my vote if you can give me objective evidence that there's no difference, no performance advantage/disadvantage. It would seem that at tracks like Laguna where top speed is not an issue it would be close to parity. But Buttonwillow, Thunderhill, Fontana? Fuggeddaboudit.

See you at the OK Corral.