Citation F1000 Build

[RobLav]

I arrived back home late yesterday after picking up my F1000 Citation chassis. If there is interest, I'll post pics of this thing as it progresses. Lot's of work, but I'm trying to build a really good car on the (relatively) cheap.

A really cheap way to do this is to buy a new body / chassis kit for about $10K. Then find an older FC and use everything off it that you can and sell the remainder. I believe someone could build up a really good car for about $20K max. (But this is not my path here...)

We've seen enough whining and bellyaching on that FD thread.

[RussMcB]

Rob, I'm sure I speak for many when I say we'd be very interested in seeing your progress.

The many different approaches is one reason why this class and time is so exciting.

Best of luck with your project.

[racer27]

I'd be very intrested is seeing any documentaion and following the process.

[formulasuper]

I arrived back home late yesterday after picking up my F1000 Citation chassis. If there is interest, I'll post pics of this thing as it progresses. Lot's of work, but I'm trying to build a really good car on the (relatively) cheap.

A really cheap way to do this is to buy a new body / chassis kit for about $10K. Then find an older FC and use everything off it that you can and sell the remainder. I believe someone could build up a really good car for about $20K max. (But this is not my path here...)

We've seen enough whining and bellyaching on that FD thread.

Yes Rob, you'll have plenty of viewers watching your progress.

[RobLav]

Making some progress here... Picked up two sets of 4-way shocks, drilled axles, pedals, steering rack (kit does not come with that stuff...). Looking for opinions on steering wheel and quick release mech. What's quality for the money? I want everything that a human touches to look and feel right. I found a new SPARCO quick release for $150. Seems good quality but expensive.

Chassis is on my work table, some lower steel strips welded to lower frame rails and body sides and cowl are rough cut with nutplates attached. More steel strips and finger plates to be cut and welded. Then alum fuel cell bulkhead to be riveted and bonded. Other brackets need fabricated and welded - like shift mechanism, steering shaft, ARB controls, etc.

My father will fabricate a dash out of wood (!)

Once chassis welding is complete, I'll sand blast (or bead blast), epoxy, then rivet and bond the floorpans.

Slow going...

Sooo... appreciate recommendations for steering wheel and quick release.

[Daryl DeArman]

I want everything that a human touches to look and feel right.

SpA hands down.

I prefer the Momo and Personal wheels.

Some say it is lipstick on a pig (I drive a FV) but I am not cutting corners on Steering components and seat--safety and feel/feedback are very important.

[RussMcB]

For my past three cars, I've really liked my open ("cut") top, flat bottom Momo. I think the model number was 27C. I remember shopping for the smallest possible size for more clearance. The open top makes gage reading easier, and provides more leverage, IMO, because I often rest my forefingers on the "stubs".

I seem to remember a thread in apexspeed mentioning a vender with low prices.

[Brian]

Spa Design for the QR and Momo for the wheel...

Brian

[racer27]

My father will fabricate a dash out of wood (!)

Can it be considered a Citation if it does not have a clear Plexi-Glass Dash? As for steering wheel, we cust swithed from a Momo to a Racetech, as they made the smallest high quality wheel I could find. Relitively in-expensive, Sourced thru Averill Racing Stuff.

[RobLav]

Thanks for the comments.

Phew... that SPA release is quite expensive.

And the wood dash is Steve's suggestion.

[R. Pare]

Can it be considered a Citation if it does not have a clear Plexi-Glass Dash?

The last Citation dash I made was out of 1/4" aircraft plywood with a carbon fiber face.

Didn't make the car any faster, but the driver loved the looks!

[Mark H]

Really... ya'll are going to put wood on a race car? When I got this 95 VD and it had wood floor pans on the side I just wondered? Crossle and Reynard cars Ive drove used Alum. on the side floors but I guess what ever works?

Can't you use Alum for the dash?
OK flame away>>>>>

[R. Pare]

Wood is a perfectly acceptable engineering material - as long as it is used within its limits. Ever hear of the Spruce Goose?

You'd be surprised where, and in what level cars - wood still gets used occasionally - including carbon tubs (balsa in place of honeycomb or foam).

For sidepod bottoms, at this level wood makes a lot of sense if you aren't struggling to make weight, or if the shape is reletively simple - smack one up at the track and chances are you can make a replacement with wood from Home Depot for less than $25 - try that with an aluminium bottom!

Fire hazard isn't all that much, and I'd be willing to bet a sight better than the resins in the fiberglass bodywork.

We like to use eithr lexan or wood for the dash. We shape our dash opening so that in a hard frontal crash, the drivers knees can be pushed back through and blow out the dashboard (it is mounted only with 4 rubber well nuts). Alu sheet, while it can be mounted the same way, has a greater chance of cutting the driver (thinner edge). The lexan, as well as the wood, also makes a good mounting bearing for the steering column - the trick is getting the hole for the column shaped correctly - which saves making another part for the car, and will last for many years.

[VehDyn]

I was watching Nascar pratice today waiting for Sebring to come back on when Darryl Waltrip said Dale Jr had smoke coming in the car likely from wood that is used on the floorboards. He says it is still occaisionally used on Cup cars. So, NASCAR uses wood. Does that make you feel better?

[RobLav]

OK - the finger plates are now fabricated and welded to the two high stress areas of the frame. The bottom cross frame member sheet at the driver's butt is now fabricated and welded. Body sides roughed in with nutplates to attach the upper cowl.

I picked up the Sparco quick release because of the good price. And I bought a new Momo D shape steering wheel. Also picked up some aluminum Indy car pedals. The clutch pedal already has a mount and rod end for a cable, so I will run a cable to the bike engine's clutch. Also picked up two new drilled axles from TDI and an Indy car magnesium steering rack - both for a really good price. Am intending to run a bronze bushing in the dash for the steering column. I need to figure out the heights and angles of the shaft before doing the dash.

Next, I need to find a Yamaha R1 dash and some tripods - 30 spline X 25mm - same as VD and some Swift.

Am still debating how to fabricate the shift lever. Both the push-pull cable and the lever need to be hard mounted. I'm thinking of making an aluminum plate that will mount both together and then make that plate adjustable wihtin the steel sheet mounts welded to the chassis.

I need Steve to deliver the lower cowl / upper nose soon so I can figure the correct body side mount angle.

Back to the shop for more fun times.

[RussMcB]

Is your camera broke?

We need to see pictures.

Otherwise, how do we know you're telling the truth?

:-)

[RobLav]

I'm too busy on the car to try and remember how to take pictures.

Will take some soon. Everybody has seen a chassis before... I don't have much more than that right now. All the little odds and ends are in boxes.

[Scott Gesford]

Rob, while you are making the wood dash, you need to fab some wood panels to put on the sidepods to give that 70's station wagon look.

[RobLav]

An old girlfriend of mine back around 1982 had a Pinto 2 liter wagon with those fake wood sides. I think they were really vinyl.

[Mike Devins]

A good amount of the side pods on Jon Staudacher's DSR is wood and he holds the track record at Waterford Hills.

Jon has a long history of building hydroplanes and acrobatic aircraft and I can tell you that the workmanship is second to none. 720 lbs without driver.

http://sports.racer.net/chassis/staudacher/page1.htm

Check it out.

[IDSRacing]

Rob,

you can you give some more details on what is included in the Citation Chassis/Body kit and the price?

thanks
Ian

[RobLav]

Ian,

I'll try...

Chassis - includes aluminum front bulkhead and 1/4" alumimum fuel cell cover to engine mount - $4000

The chassis will require a bit of detail work: 2 finger plates, various pieces of sheet steel for floorpan, bulkhead, and driver controls, and a gusset at the lower engine mount.

Kevlar body sides and kevlar reinforced upper cowl - came to about $950

That's what I've purchased so far.

Steve swears that the complete body, chassis, diff, rear structure, suspension kit, and brake kit will come to $20K or less.

It does not come with any steering components, pedals, hydraulics, plumbing, fuel cell, and radiators - basically anything that he used to source elsewhere.

I've scrounged around for all kinds of stuff - some used, some new, some off of old Indy cars, and some stuff from my older racecars. The car will be like a mongrel, and I might call it that.

So, even with 4-way shocks, I'm still pushing to build the entire car for $25K. It may end up being more like $27K.

Hope that helps. Give him a call.

A better way to do this on the cheap is to source an older FC and sell off what you don't need. Then use the components for the Citation.