Value of a 74 Crossle 25F?

[Bob Clark]

Hi all,
I have found a 74 25F in a barn. It is complete including the bodywork. It has been stored in there for many years and I do not believe it was properly set up for storage before it was put away. I'm a realist here and I'm in the buisness too. I'm just looking for some ball park numbers to see if it is worthwhile pursuing this. I know it will need a complete rebuild so I'm trying to figure out what to offer for it.
Thanks!

Bob

[Stu Pidd]

In consideration of wehat it will cost to restore vs. it's value when finished, it should be free or close to free.

[mblanc]

I have found a 74 25F in a barn.
Bob

Hi Bob,

Sounds like quite a find,
so,
what's its worth may not be as relative here as,
'what will they take?'

You did say you 'found it in a barn' right?


What year was it put there?

What was a 1/2 used up FF worth at THAT time? just food for thought,

[Brian]

An old Formula Ford with no place to call home...

I would say that it's probably worth about $2k. EVERYTHING will need to be rebuilt, replaced, fabricated, beadblasted, painted, plated... As my dear buddy Stu Pid, up there in the trailer park says, the cost to fix it is a lot more than what it will be worth when it's done.

I'd be interested in it for sentimental reasons, actually...

Brian

[RussMcB]

If it were me, I'd come up with a lot of reasons why it isn't worth much, then offer them something pretty low (in the scheme of racing cars), like $1,000. If they balk, be ready with your speech about how much work, time & money it will take to get it nice, and how little it will be worth when it's done.

Then, I'd buy it, bring it home, clean it up, then start wondering why I bought it and thinking that was about the dumbest thing I could have done with all the other projects I should be working on, then start looking for the next sucker in line that doesn't want to pass up a chance to own something as unique as this. :-).

You may want to try and track down the history. Is there a log book, chassis number or any paperwork? If not, you could always claim it belonged to <insert famous person here>.

[Bob Coury]

The 25F was a good car. I think the only major difference between that and the 30-35 F (other than bodywork) was that the wheelbase was around 2"?? longer, plusr the front roll hoop. The suspension geometry way be the same as the 30-35F

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[EYERACE]

before you offer them anything you've got to know more about the seller and their relationship to the car.....how much did they run it> ......enough to know what it actually costs to operate a car for a season or two seasons? if they have a past knowledge of not just ownership but operating costs, then they will more easily understand what you're talking about when you discuss the rebuild costs....and understand that issue when it comes to you eventually discussing purchase price. if they no little about the cost of running a season, they will just think you're trying to BS them with the argument that a proper rebuild and prep costs would be a lot of money.....and that would only make them less likely to accept a low price....they just might think it's still worth 10 grand. offer 'em 1 grand and late in the month......a lot of people's bills come due on the first

[Tom Duncan]

...to $1500 max.

Rescue this car, please.

Tom Duncan

[Henrik]

I guess this is why old cars get stripped.
They are worth a lot more in pieces. I guess that after a steam clean you will easily get $500 for the complete engine and another $500 for the gearbox at E-Bay. Then you can just throw the rest away or sell it to some dumb sucker who wants to stick a bike engine to the back of it and road register it!
At least offer to pay for what the major parts are worth as spares.
Its another thing if the gearbox casing is corroded through and the rods have come out of the side of the block.

[Ian Lenhart]

Bob,

Sounds very interesting. I agree with Mark "'what will they take?" is the real question. It's an excellent car to go vintage racing with. You have the resources and don't forget your days at Skippy.

Let me know if you pass on the deal.

Ian

[Larry]

It's sad to say, but it's true value is in the value of the parts. In other words, what could you get for the engine, gearbox and wheels. For an old gearbox, I'd say about $1,500. The engine would probably be less, and might even be a lot less if it looks to be rusty. I wouldn't expect the wheels to be much, either, so it's probably worth about $2,000. The truly bad news is that it may cost more to restore than it would be worth after the restoration, but that's the nature of restoration. If you're fortunate, there isn't any rust, but otherwise, you'll be replacing plenty of suspension components. You've probably got between $500 and $1,000 worth of rod ends and sphericals to replace. The engine would be an easy $3,000 overhaul, and possibly much, much more.

Take the project on as an act of love, not as a financial venture. Restore the car and be proud of what you've done. Race it and enjoy it...but don't expect to make money on it!

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Joshharvey]

Wait another 5 or 10 years and it will be worth $10K. The 25 was a good car. The vintage FF market is working its way up in years of value.

[Jonathan Hirst]

All good advice. The main message here is that you will spend more restoring it than what it will ever be worth. This is indisputable..

The car is too new for current "Vintage" Fords ( Pre 72) and the movement towards allowing the CFs into Vintage events puts it up against much newer (re faster) crossles, zinks, lolas, etc.

But who said racing old cars made any sense - right?

If you like the older cigar body shapes, the 25 was one of the last. All the parts you need from bodywork to suspension to oil tanks are a phone call to Ireland away and much of it is off the shelf. A BIG bonus for any restoration project.

As someone who bought a "barn " Crossle for $cheap$ and restored it, trust me when I say you will be north of $15000 before you add in the motor.

If it is the car you really want then go get it and accept the money spent will not be recovered. Who can put a dollar value on a dream car? If you are even remotely thinking that it can be restored and flipped - then forget about it pronto.

My Crossle Barn Find


Jonathan

[lenhart05]

I disagree with all of the horror stories about buying a fixer upper. If you buy the car for what it is worth, you can't go wrong. Buy it as if you assume you are getting a marginal gearbox and a frozen engine. Nothing else. Make sure it is complete with all of the nickle and dime stuff: steering wheel that isn't cracked, nice looking gauges (not the autozone sun-pros), the major body panels (OK if cracked), complete exhaust header, a radiator. You will need to replace a few things like fire system, some rod ends, new mirrors, and rust repair as needed. Restoring a formula ford RACE CAR does not mean you have to chrome plate everything on the car. Keep things simple as in the original construction.

Tad

[Mike Allison]

The title of this thread applies to both Jonathon's Barn Find and the Crossle 25 in general.

Jonathon, I have a 30F with a similar paint scheme and I wish it loooked half as nice. ( www.motorpride.com/AllspeedRacing ) That said, I agree with Tad. What Jonathan has is the premium FF restoration and a very worthy effort and result. Mine is a functional, decent looking but no show stopper. It does race well though and I credit that to the original design of the car and a 25F is well designed, simple to work on and an abundant supply of parts are available. (You don't have to pay retail for everything) and many parts can be fabricated by a competent mechanic/fabricator.

If you don't mind spending a lot of time doing the grunt work, you can have a decent, fun race car. Rebuild it with safety in mind and go have some fun.

I agree that around $1500.00 is the right price.

Mike

[Jonathan Hirst]

Restoring a formula ford RACE CAR does not mean you have to chrome plate everything on the car. Keep things simple as in the original construction.

Tad

I agree Tad - I did a club ford last year along those lines. Especially given the current market of Vintage Fords, the less you invest the less you will lose! Given that the going rate for Club ford these days is about $7500, it's hard to justify the $$ on lots of brightwork.

Of course, if anyone has a reasonable justification for spending money on old Formula fords then pass it on. My wife is still waiting for an answer.....



By the time you pay for the new fuel cell, belts, motor, tires, bodywork, some rod ends and a gearbox refurb you are exceeding the value of the car. Skilled labour is of course, free.

So there is the logical side of the arguement. In reality, the 25F would already be in my shop....

Good luck in your decision and with however much, or little you spend. Now I am going to go back to the thread where Mike Rand was going to buy an Eagle because he thinks its a cool car. I like the way Mike thinks....


Jonathan

[Bob Clark]

Thanks for all your ideas and suggestions! I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. I need to get a closer look at it but, it is in a barn that has a snow drift against the door and it is 5 hours away from me. I'll let everone know what happens!

Bob

[Steve Maxwell]

O.k., all the voices of reason have spoken. Now it's my turn. As some one who has always been able to buy low sell high with FF's I may not be the best voice of reason (some will say reason?? Maxwell??)[you know who you are Rand]. However, as a long time car nut I feel that if a racecar really gets you, and you can afford it, you should go for it. There is always a way to make it work. Sell another toy(s) to get that gearbox rebuilt; learn to strip and repaint a chassis; learn fiberglass repair, believe me these are easy things. Especially with a forum like this with all of the great advice that is available. Sure it will take a long time but you will appreciate even more the car when you finish it. Will you loose money? yes!! Will you love building it and racing it? absof**kinglutely!!! Who knows, it may well appreciate during your adventure.

If this were a road car I would advise against this approach just because the restoration is waaayyy more complex.

Just my $.02

SEM

[carnut169]

How long is many years?

I purchased my car sitting in a barn (5 years or so) and it needed very little work. Ran the motor and trans for the first year as-is. We (ok, Comprent) went through the car, serviced it, rebuilt shocks and put some used tires on it... off we went.

[jimhillyer]

Bob - you want to come and see MISS LOLA - ddecide if you want to go that far - I can tell you what it cost for a show piece - do you want to do the rebuild yourself

will see you tomorrow at the store @ 8:00AM - if you are later than that call 414-339-8588


Jim

[Trhoades]

Was wondering if you bought it, and what kind of condition it was in?...Todd Rhoades

[racerxlilbro]

All good advice. The main message here is that you will spend more restoring it than what it will ever be worth. This is indisputable..

The car is too new for current "Vintage" Fords ( Pre 72) and the movement towards allowing the CFs into Vintage events puts it up against much newer (re faster) crossles, zinks, lolas, etc.

But who said racing old cars made any sense - right?

If you like the older cigar body shapes, the 25 was one of the last. All the parts you need from bodywork to suspension to oil tanks are a phone call to Ireland away and much of it is off the shelf. A BIG bonus for any restoration project.

As someone who bought a "barn " Crossle for $cheap$ and restored it, trust me when I say you will be north of $15000 before you add in the motor.

If it is the car you really want then go get it and accept the money spent will not be recovered. Who can put a dollar value on a dream car? If you are even remotely thinking that it can be restored and flipped - then forget about it pronto.

My Crossle Barn Find


Jonathan

I believe the 25 is not a cigar shaped Crossle - the bodywork interchanges with the 32-45 series cars...Perhaps you are thinking of the 20F that had water running in the frame tubes?

[Richard Holladay]

If you don't know Formula Fords, take a mechanic who does with you. Even so, you will not know 100% that you have paid a fair price. When you buy a used race car, there are a lot of unknowns. You can spend $15M or more making this car race ready. An engine rebuild can cost $10M. Refurbished gear box & dif $5M. Shocks $350.00 each or more. And, that is just the start. If you are going vintage racing, it is better to go to the vintage races and hope that someone who has sunk $25M into a car (and that car runs up front) wants to sell it for a fair price. They would have all the invoices for work they have done and know how many races are on the engine. Even so, you will be faced eventually with an engine rebuild, replacing many gears, etc. There are few cheap racing parts and you will be replacing parts on a regular basis. For example, check out the price of a radiator. Chances are, you wil need a new one. How's the fuel cell? Probably not good. Beyond that, there are a lot of $50-$250.00 parts that you will want to replace. All that will add up to thousands.

I got lucky and bought a Crossle 32 that needed little for the first year. The Crossle 35 that I bought, though it had jst won a championship cost me $10,000 for an engine and a lot more parts that were worn out.

Restoring has to be a labor of love, where you are willing to pay for the outcome you seek.
Restoration of a race car will likely cost you double what you budget. (Make that triple).

That said, if you have the bucks and love for the project, jump in!

[LolaT440]

A club like FRCCA would get this car back together on the cheap. So if they want a couple of grand, and no one wants to invest in the Prep for SCCA. Forward the info to FRCCA, they may find a someone to get it going.

I would hate to see the car parted out.

[lenhart05]

Does anybody have any information or leads on this car?

Since recently aquiring a similar vehicle, I have a renewed interest in this car. The car I picked up may actually be this car, but is a little nicer than a "true" barn find! I did check with Bob, so I'm now opening it up to see if anybody else has any info.

So... Does anybody know this car or have an idea where it is? Maybe it was parted out and some of you bought parts off it? From Bob's original posts, it is in the upper midwest (Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.)

Feel free to PM me or post here.

Thanks in advance!
Tad

[Jim Gustafson]

I don't see how you can wrong, if the seller will accept the kind of dollars in the range others here are talking about.

One huge difference in the cost to get this car ready for vintage racing....would you have to hire someone to do the work, or are you willing to do much of this yourself? Like most race cars 70% or so is grunt work. I know Bob, you are capable of not only the grunt work obviously, but a lot of the technical stuff too. Very intriging.

Jim Gustafson

[lenhart05]

I'm still hunting for this car. Any leads appreciated. Last known location was when Bob knew about it, 5 hours radius from Milwaukee, 8 years ago.

Tad

[fvracerone1]

I had a Crossle 25 F that i sold about 20 years ago. It was red and I thought headed to Missouri. I am really looking for a 25 to do some vintage. It was the best car I ever owned for short tracks like Waterford or Blackhawk. I would like to get my hands on one again. Leads appreciated.

Frank

[Lotus7]

I had a Crossle 25 F I would like to get my hands on one again. Leads appreciated.

Frank

https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/83407/crossle-25f-chassis

and a reference to a 25 in this ad as well:
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...ssle-ff30-1976