14 year olds !?!?

[Mark H]

Dang I'm someones son???
But than again my neighbors look all crazy when they see my 10 or 14 year old driving my car down to the pasture!

[Daryl DeArman]

I Third, just because someone can race karts at 6 years old - doesn't make it right. And someone spending $100,000 racing karts, even at 14 - am I the only one who thinks this is crazy? And if money becomes the only determining factor - i.e. take two kids, one with backing an one without, and the only one that makes it is because of money and not talent - well, some have said we have always been there - at that point it becomes a very expensive arcade game. Maybe I am just a dreamer, but desire, commitment and talent should count for something.

Actually they can now start earlier than 6. When I was karting you had to be 8, and by the time you were 12 you could be in a kart faster (Junior III Piston Port) than all but the adult shifter classes. I think Spending $100K a season in karts for little Johhny or Jane Alsoran is crazzy, but for the next Scott Speed, AJ, Buddy Rice or JR Hildenbrand (sorry for the possible last name butchering) it could prove to be a wise investment if you end up in Atlantics by the time you are 18.

Yes, Desire, Commitment, and Talent should count for something, and they still do, but not as much as the almighty Dollar. Those days have been gone for years. You aren't going to get from karts to F1 by staying in karts until you are 21...too many steps needed between them. But kids transition from karts to Pro Mazda, Atlantics, or to F3 without much trouble and we think they'll have problems handling a F1000?

I am begining to think it is more about protecting our own egos, feeling like we have the ability if we were only younger and wealthier...getting our ass handed to us by a 14 year old kid wouldn't sit well with too many of us. I personally enjoy the opportunity to measure up as they are passing through once in awhile...a little reality check and extra motivation to raise the game.

[Rick Kirchner]

I wouldn't doubt some older drivers will take offence to being blown off by a younger guy - if for no other reason than the fact that making minimum weight will be a cinch for them and a lot of us will be 50 lb over. (I had a rant back in the Pinto vs Zetec days regarding weight minimums drastically out of synch with our demographic). Some might be tempted to "teach the whippersnapper a lesson" - it's well within human nature.

A bunch of us at work play old man basketball every friday - no one under 30 and no NBA ambitions allowed - but every now and then someone will bring his son or a new hire because we need the numbers to have a decent game. They inevitably try to run the pants off of us, and inevitably learn the meaning of F=Ma when they try to drive the lane. At 6' 215 all I have to do is body up on one of these guys and they quickly learn that it's much safer to shoot the long ball.

I wouldn't do that in a race car - I'm slow enough to be more worried that one fast whippersnapper would be using me as a pic when lapping me to keep another whippersnapper behind him, but it sounds like the guys on this board that started at a very young age have had some age and treachery inappropriately thrown at them on the track.

[JustDave]

Any psychologists out there who can make a comment on a teenagers lack of development of the brain that is needed for perception of danger and consequences.
This maybe cold but when an adult is seriously injured or worse in racing, there isn't much said other than to bad but I can imagine the national uproar if it happens to minor (which is what they are)
Why stop at 14 & 15. Why not 11, 12 or 13 if they show talent &/or bucks?
If you have an on track disagrement with one of these young "talents" do you think you can have a serious discussion with them with out big daddy stepping in or being accused of child abuse.

Just Dave

[Cole Morgan]

At 16, I had a couple confrontations at the track (and my dad never went with me, or was involved). I handled them the same way I do today, 2 years later. When I was 16, did 365 days really mature me that much more from when I was 15? I don't think so. This decision is definitally something that would have to be carefully monitored, but if the kids are able, why not.

At 16 I ran my first National @ Sebring. There was alot of hoopla on the site about the events of that weekend. Long story short, there were a few older drivers that thought it was impossible for me to run up front at 16 in a 14 year old car. It was thought that I was cheating and protests were filled out, but not filed. Thankfully today I consider myself VERY good friends with these guys, and we joke about it now.

Don't discriminate against these kids because of their age. Let them apply and go to drivers school. If they fail, they don't race. If they pass they can be proud SCCA members. IF THEY CAN DO IT, LET THEM.

[John Nesbitt]

It strikes me that this is less about age, and more about being mindful of the consequences of one's actions.

Perhaps we should group cars according to whether or not the driver is paying his/her own bills.

[Steve Demeter]

Dan Carmichael was 77 when he won the Runoffs in FA in 1995 and 81 when he retired in 1999 after finishing, fifth, I think in the Runoffs.

But Dan was one of the phenoms that guys like Cole, Rahal, Marco and the like are / were.

There will always be exceptions, older guys that have not gronwn up and young guys that are mature way beyond their years and guys that maintain skills way past the age of any normal human being.

The issue is not whether there are some guys younger than 16 or guys that are old that are capable of racing from the physical and maturity / skill/ experience standpoints. The issue is and will continue to be, who decides and how do they decide which ones are safe to be on the track with.

[Rick Kirchner]

When Dan was a youngster he was flying P51s....

[kea]

If SCCA wants any real future member growth, they need to have a race group (regional) for 14-15 year old drivers, no mater what their previous background is. This will probably mean that they would need to subscribe to a single class.
NHRA starts them younger in Jr. Dragster, and this is where their growth starts.
If the younger drivers are racing with their own age group, they will tend to influence the others that race with them and bring them up to speed. This is what it was like for me when I started Kart racing in the very early 60's. Until I was 16, I had to race with/in the Jr. (15 under) group, no matter what my experiance (or speed) was (or the fact that I was the size of a high school linebacker).
Keith

[Tim Webb]

It's a given that there are certain 14 and 15 yr old kids that are capable of racing in the SCCA. In fact some of them will be quicker than the field they race with.

Assume for a minute that the SCCA allows the 14 and 15 yr olds to race and that to do so the new racer must recieve approval. Who provides this approval? What experience consitutes proper experience and how much is needed? Do you get into a situation where some over eager father pressures the guy in charge of deciding whether his kid races or not? What happens if the kid is then injured or worse killed?

By waiting till the kid has a driver's license it seems to me that the SCCA has to a certain degree protected itself.

As to the comment that everyone is cognisant of the potential for injury, I have to dissagree. Do you remember your childhood? How many times have you looked back and said "What was I thinking."

[Thomas Copeland]

If F1000 REALLY is the next Holy Grail of club racing then why stop at 14?? If you can make an arguement for allowing 14 year olds to compete then I can make an equally stupid one for allowing 8 years to race (i.e. my kid is so gifted, blah, blah, blah...mature beyond his/her years....blah, blah, blah, next Schumacher if only everyone can see...blah, blah, blah...)

Of course if one of these pre-pubescents manages to get himself "offed" while racing then we can and should expect a major backlash aganist the sport. I see a story like that managing to go at least 20 news cycles...by that time we'lll have angry housewives picketing every race track and congressional hearings that will condemn the entire sport as being a vast waste of valuable resources at a time when such resources are being depleted.

This crap reminds me of those pre-wee league parents trying to turn their 5 year olds into instant superstars. This nutty idea could actually qualify as a form of child abuse amougst some of these loons....

There is a reason why the age of consent is 16, the voting age is 18, and drinking age is 21. Get a clue will ya? This is without doubt the dumbest idea I've ever heard. Hands down. Lame and just plain stupid, stupid, stupid.

It's not about talent, or whether or not the kid has it, it's about accountability.

We're suppose to be the adults.

[Tom Duncan]

Thank you Thomas Copeland, you hit the nail on the head as far as I am concerned. This sport is for accountable adults, not kids. I feel the age limit should be 18.

Tom Duncan

By the way, what is the record number of responses to a thread here on Apexspeed?

[sidney]

Man, this is a hot topic. I think one of the important factors is parental involvement. Speaking as the parent of a 3 year old, I don't know how many times I've asked myself, "where's the parents?" in any number of situations, and she's only been on the planet for 3 years!

If you look at the guys that are posting the "younger generation" on this thread, I think one common factors you may find is the dedication and positive involvement in a parent and/or mentor. If daddy is just writing a check to keep the kid busy, that is a totally different situation than somebody turing the wrenches and checking air pressures for junior. Too many times in our current society, it is the responsibility of a teacher, coach, or soemone other than a parent/gaurdian to help guide them through life.

IMHO, it will be very tough for volunteer workers to determine what is best for a kid after seeing him or her for only a few hours on the track on one weekend. Did you push your car to the limits during your drivers school(s)?

At a certain point in one's life, you start to understand what you are capable of, and what your limitations are. This is different for everybody, but as a coach of high school kids, at 14, I feel most think adults are full of hot air. As a kid, I know I thought I was indestructable and my folks were generally full of it (sorry mom and dad ). Notice I said MOST, not ALL.

If the addition of this demographic is not financially detrimental (higher entry fees for insurance, etc.), then I say let them run, but the leash needs to be very short, and maybe they have an additional liability that must be provided before the weekend starts to pay for any maneuvers that result in damage to other cars? Kind like an arrive and drive guys does for his rental. I'd also be a big fan of the 1 strike and you're out for the year.

[Jonathan Hirst]

We can stick your head in the sand all we like. There are 14 year old future champions in cars getting seat time RIGHT NOW all around the globe.

Meanwhile our kids spend two more years sitting in go karts, "maturing".


Jonathan

[Rick Kirchner]

There was a show on the National Geographic channel last week about the lives of several people in Italy. One segment was on a young female race car driver. She won the Italian FF championship (their FF is more like our FC) the weekend after getting her Italian drivers license. She might have been around 18 though - she was going to engineering school - I don't think their driving age is as young as ours.

[jtspitler]

You say 16 for competition because then you can get your drivers liscence, But you are not old enough to vote or smoke (and if you are running a support series to any of the IRL events you can't participate because you are not 18)? Now you are 18 you can drive, vote and smoke but can't drink. Now you are 21 and can do all so may be we need to move the age to 21 since we are techniclly not mature enough to handle it!

For those of you that have the perception that these kids will be bouncing off of you, when was the last ime you were in a field of 24 that 1.5 seconds covered the whole field. Could you handle it? most of you couldn't!

i am not one of the overzelis dads but know when its time to move on I can assure you that when my son steps into a competition situation that he will have more track time under his belt in one year than alot of you have in five, and if he is not ready he won't do it, its that simple.

I think that first the young racers should be able to attend the schools at least. If the instructor is any good he will be able to see right away if the driver can handle it.

[Steve Demeter]

Actually I think Dan flew P-38 Lightnings, you know the one with the pilot in a central fuselage and the engines on either side in their own little fuselages.

He once told me that if you put one of those things in too steep of a dive they would go supersonic and tear the wings off.

When I asked how to avoid that, he said just be careful.

Remember this was durung dogfighting with Zeor's.

[RussMcB]

If you have a talented and level headed kid, and reasonable and responsible parents, and a high quality instructor with the ability to accurately judge the anticipated racing ability of the kid over the next couple of years (while trying to do the same for his other students, and don't forget the instructor is a driver who volunteered to help with the school that weekend), then, sure, it should be no problem and we can cross our fingers that it will work.

Personally, I think the chances of that happening frequently are pretty slim, and if we're not talking about a frequent thing, then it's not worth considering. By that I mean, if this is a good thing for 1, 2 or 3 kids a year, is it worth the risk of allowing unqualified kids who are not ready to race?

Here in the southeast, we don't even have instructors on the track with students. I find it hard to understand how a volunteer instructor with no formal training can judge someone's ability as they drive past while you're standing behind a fence.

[J Mabee]

SCCA schools don't teach racecraft or how to drive at the limit. They teach safety, flags, etc.. I really don't see how you can tell a good "race" driver from a SCCA school. Maybe the kids NEED to goto Skippy, Russell, Bertil Roos, or {Add name here} true racing school - on top of the SCCA schools. I can understand that SCCA is the best bang for the buck to get started in cars.

[Rennie Clayton]

Put your child in a padded room, and wrap them in bubble wrap, otherwise you're a bad parent.

VS

Walk it off, it's just a broken arm! Parents who coddle and overprotect are the problem.


Flame war in 3... 2... 1...


Cheers,
Rennie

[bruce miller]

I can't beiieve the amount of comments made on this subject. Very strong feelings on both sides. As a thirty three year member of SCCA and owner of a full time racing business since 1980, I have some perspective on this issue. The year I started racing, the minimum age was lowered to 18 years. The sky did not fall, and an eighteen year old named Rick Bell won a couple of national Ford races. A few years ago the age was lowered to 16 and there did not seem to be major carnage.

To me the issue has always been enforcement of existing rules for driver conduct. I would love to see driver log books where comments from flaggers and stewarts could be recorded, with some form of regular performance review, not just for novices, but everyone! I have seen "responsible adults" drinking late into the night before a race the next morning. I have seen "responsible adults" go onto the track with an engine that had lost 20 lbs of oil pressure only to have it spill it's contents in front of the rest of the field. As a formula ford driver for many years, I learned that slowing down at the sight of a waving yellow was optional and mostly for suckers!

I guess the bottom line is... if we demand intelligent behavior on the track and seriously penalize those drivers who put others at risk,is age really an issue? And would the media or public outcry over an injury to a fifteen year old be that much worse than had the driver been a sixteen year old? Don't they both need parental permission? Two years ago I ran a car in formula BMW, and while there were crashes, probably less than in Formula One, no one was seriously injured inspite of at least half the field being fifteen. The driver review by the IMSA people who policed the series was almost Draconian and went a long way to ensuring close safe racing.

It would be great to see SCCA racing offer a youth oriented affordable class where young drivers could could have the kind of competition that formula Ford offered in the 70's and 80's, that would bridge the gap to the more expensive series like BMW and Mazda.

[rickspencer]

I think people keep talking about KIDS being KILLED or OFFED is just plain F^&*^%^ stupid. A death in the sport is detremental any way you look at it. 14 or 40 it is a life and you can DAM sure believe that a 40 year old being KILLED in a Race Car there Will be law suits from the family and there lawers Does Dale E ring a BELLLL DING DING this caused Bill Simpson lots of grief and whos fault was it in the end after all the Lawers????????Morbid the conversation dosent need to be. If you feel it is Child Neglet then try looking at the Soccer fields fathers punching kids running down the field you can find that on youtube if you want. Parents that take there kids to this level usally has a idea what it is about. I bet they have to sign a Minors release waiver every time they go to a racetrack!!!!

9 year old killed in southern CALI in a Gokart mother gets on inside addition and talks about Saftey now the kids are required to wear a chest protector. Accidents happen you either learn from them or you dwell on them and use it as excuses.

Strength and ability play a roll in who sould get in these cars. I'm with Matt C. on this. Some can some can't.. SCCA should be the ones that sets a line and if you can pass the Critera your in if not your out. Come back in a year.. and not with a check book if they are border line let them go SOLO for a year and come back now there 15 try again your in or out if your out let them SOLO for another year. they are getting time in a car. Now their 16 you have to give them a chance thou how bad they may be. I dought after 2 years of SOLO they will be that bad but now there is other cars with them. You either have track awarness or you don't that happens at a early age. My DOG in this fight is My Nephew a 12 yearold 3rd year shifter racer. I support him in what ever he wants to do. We don't do anything that he dosen't feel comfortable doing he told us year before last he didn't feel like he was ready for the long tracks Gratten and Gingerman so we didn't run them cost him the Championship not our call HIS. If at 14 he feels he is ready to try a F1000 I will get him one we will rent tracks and practice. Then if I feel he is ready to run in compition we will apply. I like the F1000 concept it is a big step but isn't stepping from a 48 MPH Comer 80 kart to A 90+MPH Shifter. With no seat belts I would much rather see him belted in with a hans device on.. Thats right Gokarts Arn't Dangerous I forgot. Maybe I need to quit throwing up when we get to the track because of Nerves...


For the Guy that made the NASCAR comment about them having it right there are plenty of feeder series that that will let a 14 or 15 yr old in a latemodel or sprint car and run places like Winchester or Salem those 2 tracks are fast. 650HP 2000 lbs cars in circles what about kids that don't want to go in Circles they are forced to because thats what they can go run. People complain how nobody roadraces but people turn them away when there young don't expect them to come after they experience Saturday night racing they just don't come back....There are plenty of road racers out there but only do it at special events due to its not what pays the bills for them. Here is a concept some kids just may stay right there not not go any further stedy field increase. Options is what it is about.....

[jtspitler]

Rick,
As I recall you are usally about 15 miles out when it happens!

[Thomas Copeland]

A 40 year old getting killed racing won't lead to congressional hearings the way some 14 year would. A 40 year old is expected to be mature enough to make those kinds of death risking decisions. A 14 year old is not considered under the law to be mature enough to make those kinds of decisions on his own.

Same goes for allowing 14 year olds to sky-dive, do motorcycle jumps. or jackass stunts. If you are the parent of that child you are engaging in not just child endangement but criminal neglect. Like to see how you can argue yourself out of that one in court. "Gee, your honor, he really wanted to do it!" Now that's being stupid.

Once again, who the hell is suppose to be the adult here?

Also, where are these 14 year old drivers racing at in the USA today? SCCA? Pro ranks? Name one. Because I think that's illegal.

[Bob Wright]

We can all argue the merits of age, but the fact is that there are 14 yr olds racing cars now, so we already have a history to judge competence of the age catagory- and in the end its not so bad. The training kids get today in the karting ranks is far superior to anything we old geezers ever got.

I might take some exception to the assumption on this thread that these "14yr olds" are all headed towards F1000s. I suspect a well prepped F1000 will approach FA speeds, and maybe that's not the best first step up from karts. But, then, that would be the parents' call, wouldn't it.

[EYERACE]

eye sort of like the expression 'ignorant courage'.....but ignorant certainly does not apply to Cole. There are 'shiny new driver suits' that are ignorant.....and not always are they young.
Tim Webb said at the bottom of page 2 what in a way is a paraphrase of 'ignorant courage'.....and a question for all of us to think about.....

.....why can't you rent a car from Hertz until you're 25? that speaks volumes and i have no problem with such a policy.

race at 14? we all know there are some out there that can and should .....but we also do not debate that there are [for lack of a better term] family budgets that will let 14 year old retired karters [who will constitute 'shiny new driver suits'] rent from a shop eager to serve. i do not see the track currently littered with the minimum age driver and their aftermaths so going down to 14 seems possible.

the big objection is this one......one must show a valid state driver's lecense to enter an SCCA solo 2.....so a 14 year old cannot solo but they could take a green flag? I would therefore favor the minimum age being left to the Regions and he Regions would have policy in place equaling state age. sure that leads to "my kid can race there but not over there" sort of objections - but stuff it - life's not fair partly because laws are thought of by people - at least age policy would reflect what is in place rather than an arbitrary number across the board.

and 18 year olds were given the vote under Nixon 1] in the hope [by the GOP] that the kids would be so thankful for the emancipation....that they would vote for Nixon as a way of saying thanks.....well bunches of 'em did and to that i partly say the old expression > you can fool some of the people......the Nixon legacy speaks for itself and perhaps also to the grand job of fooling the 18 yr old vote....2] 18 yr olds were given the vote to quash the argument "you're old enough to die for your country but not old enough to vote" in the Vietnam era......to that i point out there are people today arguing that we should let 13 yr olds vote. huh?
the 18/vote argument makes little but rhetorical sense....why else the expression 'cannon fodder' - which i hate by the way.

i am not in favor of a no-experience 14 year old going thru some Skippy/Bondurant/etc school [the names here are for exemplary use only - i have no idea if a 14 yr old can go thru a bond school] and then be handed an SCCA regional license such that soon after independent school completion, they are renting a FSCCA car from a shop and be on the track with any of us....because the kid's jazzed up and the family budget can afford it. it appears the SCCA rules might come to allow for that - - - maybe all dreamed up by people many that no longer race?

[Cole Morgan]

If the right minor wavers are signed how can there be blame placed upon SCCA. The parent/guardian signs the waver and so does the minor saying they both understand the risks and agree to the terms.

I guess I should have played hockey and had a puck shot at me at 95 mph, and my dad could have gotten in fights with other parents.

If these kids pass their schools, and are able to be safe racecar drivers, the SCCA is the perfect place for them to start. I can easily say the racetrack has kept me out of trouble and away from alot of more dangerous things in today's world. I am all for these kids to be experienced racers, and for very strick instructors at the schools. I'm also for letting these kids start their careers as SCCA members. I went to my SCCA school a month after I turned 16, I am confident that I could have had the same performance 365 days earlier.

If the rules do change and these young stars take advantage of it, I will be the first to shake thier hands and congradulate them.

[Thomas Copeland]

You know what.....I changed my mind (I'm allowed to do that aren't I?)...I say as long as they can see over the steering wheel let's let 'em loose....

But let's be fair about it. Let's use the ol' Florida standard. If a kid can be tried for murder at age 11 (and tasered by the cops at age 2) then we should just drop everything else to be in-line with that.

Can be tried for murder: Age 11
Age of consent: Age 11
Right to vote: Age 11
Drinking age: Age 11
Can volunteer for miltary service: Age 11
Drive a car on the freeway: Age 11

Can race a racecar: age 11

Makes about as much sense as all the other arguements for allowing 14 year olds to race. Suppose it wouldn't be too long after that we'll be reading about the youngest ever member of the Blue Angels Flying team...old Roy J "Hooters" Rogers....aged 12 and a half....

.

[rardoin]

I'll wrap my son in Nomex, helmet and HANS, place him in a carbon fiber tub bound in a molded beaded seat and protective 6pt restraints and tell him quit moping, qualifying second is OK, just make sure you aren't sleeping on the start!!

[Jim Garry]

There is alot of scientific literature available on the development of the human brain. At early ages, MOST people (especially males) do not fully comprehend their mortality. The finality of ones death and its impact on realitives and friends is a concept that is hard to grasp for most anyone; for people at 14 or 15 years of age, it is nearly impossible. This does not seem to be an issue that is debated among those who study this stuff for a living. But as in any risk assessment based on statistical groupings, there are always outliers. So not all 14 and 15 year olds can be defined as people not understanding their mortality. But most can be defined that way.

Another issue ... this is a club, not nascar or some other money making venture. So a big part of this debate should focus on whether or not we want to risk the existence of our club in an effort to bring in new members in the form of 14 and 15 year old people. It is a big risk due to their general immaturity and also (as a few posters have stated) when a 40 year old dies while racing it is a tragedy; but if a 14 year old were to die while racing it would be considered "criminal" by a large segment of the population.

Opening club racing up to this lower age limit is a risk to the club, as well as a risk to others on the track because of the statistical realities of that age group. Older drivers who pose a risk of some type are a different situation (for the most part). They may simply be bad drivers, but it is not normally because they don't comprehend the realities of death.

If it is decided to allow 14 & 15 year olds to race, then some stricter form of assessment is needed. As posted earlier, SCCA schools don't teach racing. They teach safety, the line, and flags. So the question is, how are these young drivers to be assessed? How the assessment is conducted and by whom, I don't know.

I could possibly support allowing them to race if a low horsepower, easy to drive, spec car of some type were used. Of course, that would add another class that would require it's own session which would likely be an underpopulated session and DC Region would surely kick them out . In SCCA autocross, 8 year olds may compete in 5 hp karts. I've watched them and between the low speed of the kart, the inherent restrictedness of the course, and not having to deal with traffic, there is no problem. This is a fine way to pull new, young members into the club. It's already working. Some of these people will certainly end up club racing.

Jim

[Rennie Clayton]

Also, where are these 14 year old drivers racing at in the USA today? SCCA? Pro ranks? Name one. Because I think that's illegal.

I started racing full sized cars at 14. Others like me do it all over the midwest. Last I checked, a 14 year old is also permitted to drive "farm equipment" on public roads in many (most?) states.


Cheers,
Rennie

[Jim Garry]

If the right minor wavers are signed how can there be blame placed upon SCCA. The parent/guardian signs the waver and so does the minor saying they both understand the risks and agree to the terms.

Cole, it's been explained to me by attorneys that a waiver means nothing to a talented lawyer. It's simply a first line of defense for the sanctioning body.

Jim

[Cole Morgan]

Thomas, I agree with your idea. A drunk 11 yr old driving down the freeway to vote, and then murdering the volunteer's! How cool would that be! Solid Call Man!!

I have a really good reality TV idea, INFANTS SWORD FIGHTING!

Also, the old enough to see over the wheel thing might not work. I know this little asian guy thats in his 40's and can't see over the steering wheel.

Also on the point of SCCA schools not teaching racing. Than how are middle age men that have never raced a damn thing in their life being evaluated correctly? I would take a 14-15 yr old with 5-6 years of kart racing under their belt over a 40 yr old that just discovered he wants to race a car, and what do ya know, he has $100,000 to dish out on a .014 Swift. That should be more of a concern than the 14-15 yr old issue.

[Greg Mercurio]

I thnk the operative statement here might just be:

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

[Rennie Clayton]

I thnk the operative statement here might just be:

"Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

As long as you are willing to stipulate that this applies regardless of age, yes.


Cheers,
Rennie

[Steve Demeter]

A thought here.

I believe that in order to hold an SCCA competition License, you must posess a current valid state driver's license. If it is under suspension, no competition license no matter how old you are.

[Dave Gomberg]

...

Also, where are these 14 year old drivers racing at in the USA today? SCCA? Pro ranks? Name one. Because I think that's illegal.

Although Formula BMW has a current minimum age of 15, I guess you would think that is illegal as well. Go to http://www.formulabmwusa.com/season_drivers/ and click on Jules Duc and Tom Sutherland. Both of them were 15 during their first FBMW seasons. Then click on Alumni Drivers and both Richard Phillippe and Graham Rahal were 15 in their first seasons.

Dave

[John LaRue]

I might suggest an appropriate method to deal with this such as is generally followed by USAC. Essentially USAC mandates that the individual be capable of executing a release on their own. They do not utilize minor releases. In that the age of majority in most states is 18 years this effectively prohibits anyone under 18 from competition UNLESS they have been emancipated. Indiana law provides for a partial emancipation for the purpose of competing in automobile or motorcycle races.

To seek emancipation the minor must petition the court and provide proof of prior experience (generally 5 years) as well as evidence that the minor and his or her parents understand the risks of being permitted to participate in motorsport events; what is involved in executing a release and the meaning thereof. It is a formal proceeding and puts on record the sobering realities of the matter.

I have handled numerous partial emancipations so as to permit minors to participate in USAC midget and sprint car races and to my knowledge no harm has come from such. This process certainly helps to reduce if not eliminate any concerns over the enforcability of the minor release which always gives me some concern from the perspective of a track owner, sanctioning body or promoter.

As far as determining the age at which one is qualified to race, that is always subjective. As has been duly noted, there are many over the age of 18 who should not be permitted to strap in. In a perfect world we would have an annual if not more frequent review of licensing, preferably by experienced drivers nominated by the active driving members. Obviously this is not going to happen so we will have to deal with the problems on a case to case basis through the available means.

John

[rardoin]

Ditto Rennie and Cole!

Just because one reaches legal driving age to drive a street car does not entitle one to a license, one must be evaluate and pass an exam. The same rule applies with a racing license, regardless of age. I was much more comfortable running fm's next to my son (now 17 and embarking on a pro career)at age 15 than alot of the older but less experience drivers. I did put him through several driving schools (not SCCA) and track days to ensure that he was competent. His 6 years of karting were extremely valuable in preparing his racecraft and maturity for car competition, regardless of suggestions above that karting experience is useless.

Resposibility rests with the parents to make sure their child is truly prepared for auto racing and with the licensing body to perform appropriate evaluation. I don't object if more stringent rules are adopted to better ensure applicants readiness, as long as it is age independant.

[Daryl DeArman]

But my 10 year old is really tallented....I can prop him on pillows...your telling me he's old enough to fight in a war next year but he can't race yet? What kind of sense is that?

Brain development??? So we should not accept them during the developing years but it's okay to keep them in their deteriorating years? Once they reach 39 (I can say that I'm only 38) and their reflexes slow and they become too comfortable with their mortality we can't let them race???

Instructors aren't qualified to judge a 14 year old students' abilities from the other side of the pit wall but can judge the old guy who watched one too many NASCAR races on his couch and finally decided he could be better at the ol' bump n' run than the guy on TV?

Idiot moves by the 30 year old are considered racing incidents and I pay my own damages as part of the assumed risk, but a 14 year old does it and he/she needs to pay for my damages?

Young kids and parents reading this thread--maybe F1000 and the SCCA isn't the right place for you. Stay in karts or go race a TQ midget...get hooked on the roundy round racing and chasing the big money in NASCAR. We'll continue wondering how come we don't have any new blood coming in and the greying of SCCA. Or how come the next up and coming star didn't race FF or F1000 or FV at anytime in his career. Leave us and our sandbox alone...we like beating the other "could have been" it makes us feel good.