F1000 Engine Program

[Matt Conrad]

Phoenix Race Cars, Inc. announces a "Crate Engine Program" for Suzuki GSX-R1000 engines specifically built for SCCA F1000 competition rules. This program provides "on the shelf" engines ready to be shipped within 48 hours of ordering and fast, economical shipping to most major US markets.

The two packages currently being offered are as follows:

2003-04 Based Engine Core (989cc)
Complete tear-down and inspection
Complete re-build with new bearings, seals, gaskets, etc.
New Billet Clutch Basket, Heavy Duty Clutch Springs
Re-Mapping of ECU
Tuned and Broken in on the Superflow Dyno (Dyno sheet provided)
Approximately 160 Rear Wheel Horsepower*
$4,995 (Includes $2,000 Refundable Core Charge)

2005-06 Based Engine Core (999cc)
Same as the 2003-04 Model except:
Larger (1mm) Titanium Valves
Improved Cam Timing
Higher Compression
Dual Injector Set-Up
Improved Electronics
Approximately 165 Rear Wheel Horsepower*
$5,995 (Includes $3,000 Refundable Core Charge)

All engines are built by George Dean's Racing Engines.

* These numbers are using a stock exhaust system and stock airbox. When comparing horsepower...please ask the supplier to provide you a Rear Wheel Horsepower number. Several other entities are advertising 175-180 HP numbers, but those are NOT Rear Wheel Horsepower numbers, but a theoretical number at the crankshaft.

We also offer:

Oil Fitting Adaptors (-8 AN) $50/set
Complete Custom Car Wiring Harness $500
Custom Wet Sump Pans $400 - $600
Dry Sump Pump and Pan Assembly $1,195
Spare Starters (NEW...not USED) $275 ea.

The first engines are scheduled to be ready for delivery on February 1, 2007. Please contact us at 623-581-3222 or e-mail to matt@phoenixracecars.com for more information or to place your order. More information will be available on our website soon.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Cars, Inc.

[willpelton]

I think you can call it a good sign when the big hitters in the formula biz start selling turn key engine packages. I think this F1000 class is going to be great. I still wish the cars were less than $40k to $45k new! Do we have a ballpark on the phoenix car yet? $$$$

[Richard Dziak]

I think this F1000 class is going to be great. I still wish the cars were less than $40k to $45k new! Do we have a ballpark on the phoenix car yet? $$$$

Will:

I would have to think that there are large profit margins in these cars, with the F1000 Class, from the major 7 or 8 manufacturers. Yes I agree it's an exciting class, but have to question how many of these cars will be sold at around $50,000+ for a ready to race F1000. I see that less than 150 FSCCA cars were sold over the past few years. Since race cars are a discreationary item, I would think that a price of $35M vs. $50m for a ready to race car would attract a lot more interest. Realizing that volume sales and volume production would lower costs, it will be very interesting to see, the amount of cars sold for 2007. I for one have a genuine interest in a "turnkey" F1000 car, as I just don't have time, mechancial experience and shop to convert my RF93 FC Van Diemen to F1000. Perhaps there will be someone who comes to the forefront and would be able to start a conversion business, as a lot of older FC's are out there that owners would want to convert. If I could find someone to convert my RF93 Van Diemen FC to F1000 at a reasonable price, I would do it, and I am sure others will follow. Both the Stohr F1000 and Matt Conrad's Phoenix look interesting, sleek and state of the art, but I am not sure how many of these cars will actually be sold, and I have not seen projected sales figures from any one production company. I know it took several years for the Radical's to take hold. I sure do like the attraction of the open wheel F1000. I also realize that builders such as Stohr, Phoenix, Gloria, West, have big dollars invested and they are ones that take the economic risk in the production process, and they are most welcome to make a profit. They deserve that. What is a reasonable price, will be determined by the market, and the volume of sales over the next few years. For many people who buy these cars, some will be very competitve drivers, while others will want to own the cars to race for fun, and some quality open track days. As for myself, at 55, I look for the fun aspect of racing, and try to be compeitive when I can. So I don't neccesarily need the $5,000 to $7,000 race engine installed in the car. One poster on the F1000 website noted the availablity of low mileage (1000-2000 mile) MC engines out there and available. Many use Ebay, and after looking at some of these deals, they seem attractive. I would suspect that that the vast amount of cars sold will be rollers, and the owners will install their own engines. In the information on the Stohr website, they state that the potential owner of a Stohr F1000 roller, will be allowed to source out an engine, or they will do it for you, have it shipped to Stohr, and they will do the final installation to make the car race ready. That particular news, attacts my attention. Time will tell, and there are a lot opinions of what is right vs wrong, on the approach of the F1000. I do know one thing, if the price is right, people will buy, including myself. I continue to research and hopefully I will have one of these beauties sitting in my garage waiting to hit the track. Thanks to Lee Stohr and Matt Conrad for keeping all of us up to date on their production cars, and most of all thanks to Doug Carter and ApexSpeed for making this website available. Apexspeed is no doubt the premier website for racers, racing, and general discussion, where anyone can voice their opinion and also provide their expertise to help other racers.

Richard Dziak
Las Cruces, New Mexico USA
Pan Am SCCA #81
Rocky Mountain Division SCCA #8
RF93 VanDiemen F2000

[Matt Conrad]

Our pricing was announced several weeks ago and is currently as follows:

Roller $32,995

Turn-Key $42,995

A Kit Version is planned with pricing starting at around $23K...more later.

Here's a link to the specifications on our current website

Phoenix F1K-07 Specs

Please note that we recently made the decision to switch from BBS wheels to Kodiak.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Cars, Inc.

[Matt Conrad]

Richard,

We feel our F1000 car offers substantial value in this new market. When you compare our car to the other offerings in the market I think you'll see that we offer more standard features on our $32,995 car than they do on their higher priced cars. And the value of our offering will only get better as we are very close to finalizing our 2007-2008 Contingency Program for the F1000 cars. If you GO HERE (scroll down to the third story dated February of 2006)you'll see what we've been doing for our Maloy DSR and CSR customers. The F1000 program will be similar.

We are also considering offering a conversion kit and providing turn-key conversion services completed at our Phoenix shop, but the production car is obviously consuming all of our time right now.

If you are serious about purchasing a car or having yours converted I would appreciate a call so we could talk. My cell phone is 602-799-1922.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Cars, Inc.

[Richard Dziak]

Matt:

Thanks for the reply, I will be in contact and may make a vist over to Phoenix, since I am in your neighboring state of New Mexico. Yes. I would like to speak with you. Thanks for being so upfront on your posts as they are greatly apreciated.

Richard Dziak
Las Cruces, New Mexico USA

[Matt Conrad]

I've already received several questions regarding what constitutes a "useable core" so I thought I'd just go ahead and post the info here as well.

The way the Crate Engine Program will work is that we will charge the full amount for the motor (re-built F1000 engine plus the core charge). If you don't want to secure your own core, no problem. Our transaction is complete. If you have a core engine (or want to secure one) you can return it to us and we will refund the core charge.

There are some restrictions....

1. The core engine must be of the same era (i.e. no 03-04 cores for an 05-06 motor)
2. The core must not have any case damage, including cracks, stripped holes, repairs, broken tabs, etc.
3. There must be some documentation as to where the motor was sourced.
4. The motor must not have any internal damage to parts that must be re-used (i.e. pistons, rods, valves, transmission, etc.)
5. The core must consist of Engine, Throttle Bodies and full wiring harness with ECU and rectifier.
6. The core must be received within 3 weeks of shipment of motor purchase.
7. If there are damaged or non-useable parts, we will adjust the core value based on the cost of the parts that need to be replaced. Cores that are deemed to be non-useable (broken cases, terminal damage, etc.) will not be accepted.

I also feel that our Core charges are fair. For example, I know of 4 engines right now for sale that are of the 03-06 variety. There are two 03-04 engine car kits listed at $1,695, and there is also a used 06 motor listed at $2,900. In addition, there's a brand new "zero mile" 06 listed for $3,200. None of these prices include freight and some sellers will not "drop ship".

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Cars, Inc.

[Matt Conrad]

In addition to the above engine program, we've been able to secure access to 9 (nine) zero mile GSX-R1000 engines. These engines come complete with throttle bodies, wiring harness, ecu, rectifier, airbox and header.

Once the 2006's are gone we will have 2007's available....probably mid-February once the bikes are released.

We still recommend having George Dean add the billet clutch basket, heavy duty clutch springs that will make the motor ready for car racing application.

Pricing for outright purchase is $3,600 for the 2006's and the 2007's will be $5,000....at least until demand subsides. Freight extra. If you want to have one of these motors built to F1000 specs the cost will be $5,995 + Freight.

Three are already sold!

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Cars, Inc.
matt@phoenixracecars.com
602-799-1922

[Matt Conrad]

It has come to our attention that a few modifications that we always make to our GSX-R1000 engines for DSR racing may be ruled illegal for F1000 competition. Mainly these:

1. Removal of the internal balancer and plugging the oil passage that feeds it.
2. Installation of a manual cam chain tensioner.

These two items are not really performance modifications, but improve the engine's reliability for car racing application (OK....removal of the balancer may improve HP by 1 or 2).

I have removed any reference to these modifications in our engine program details and no engines we sell for F1000 racing will have these modifications unless ruled legal.

As a positive....our 2006 zero-mile engines can now be built to F1000 specifications for the same price as using a used core engine....$5,995. The core charge is a bit higher, but the parts and labor required are reduced.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Cars, Inc.

[Messenger Racing]

Matt,
What is the race weight of the motor/trans combination?

jay messenger

[Matt Conrad]

Jay,

I don't believe that we've ever scaled a 1000cc motor....we should have though. Probably because we're always in such a hurry to get them in the car.

From a discussion I remember on the SR Forum I believe most of the 1000cc engines are around 150 pounds.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC

[Stan Clayton]

I weighed a 2004 Yamaha R1, complete minus airbox, at 140 lbs on an electronic scale. (Same scales weigh within 3 lbs of SFR scales on a 1255 lbs Atlantic, so they're fairly accurate.) That's not a GSXR, but it should be similar. Stan

[Messenger Racing]

thanks guys - long cold winter here - got to have something to figure on............


JM
Muleshoe,Texas USA

[willpelton]

Hey Matt, I was just reading the F1000 rules that I have from SCCA. Section D: engines, item 2 states; Engine internals and compression ratio must remain stock. .............. I think you and Lee Stohr and maybe the Gloria crew should get together with the proper SCCA person and fix this for all us racers and potential racers before this class really gets going. If we can not do the basic things to improve reliability then we will have problems that we don't need to have. I so hope that SCCA doesn't create a load of stupid rules that only diminish this class. Opinions..................??

[stonebridge20]

If you want a rule changed in SCCA, you start

HERE >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.scca.com/Club/crb/crbletter.html

Agnif

[carnut169]

I would argue that the manual cam tensioner was not an "internal". It is mostly on the outside of the head... and offers no performance advantages. I'm not sure its needed (I have not run one in 2 years) but don't see a problem w/ them....

[Matt Conrad]

Sean,

I agree. The problem is that at the very beginning of the rules for F1000 it sas:

H.1. Formula 1000 is a restricted class. Therefore, all allowable modifications, changes, or additions are as stated herein. There are no exceptions. IF IN DOUBT, DON'T.

We're in doubt, so we won't. The last thing we want to do is start a F1000 crate motor program and have one of our customers be DQ'd because of a technicality.

Will,

Some of the modifications we have done (in DSR) are just added insurance....they aren't required.....like the manual cam chain tensioner and removing the balancer. Some people have run engines stock for many, many hours with no issues, we just choose to upgrade these motors in a few areas where we have seen failures.

Also remember that in DSR, where these 1000 cc motors are allowed to be modified highly, 20+ more rear wheel horsepower can put additional stresses on these items we won't see in F1000.

Matt Conrad
Phoenix Race Works, LLC