In-car video recorder - Group Buy

[red_z]

I've been researching solid-state video recorders and following the discussions on this forum for awhile now. I think I might have found a great solution. Its called the PV500 and its a small, lightweight, SD based, solid-state recorder with DVD quality.

I've contacted a source and he will sell these for $349 if I can line-up at least 3 buyers. They retail from $399-$449 online. If we can get more than 3 buyers, the price will continue to drop. If anyone is interested, please let me know and I'll get everything lined up (dave@uamotorsports.com).

The reason that I think this one is particularly nice is that it does not have some of the issues that many of the recorders have today. The higher resolution recorders tend to be hard-drive based which makes them alot more expensive, but more importantly susceptilbe to shock and vibration and not cut out for racing. The solid-state devices on the other hand, tend to be lower resolution (320x240). I think this one is the perfect blend.

Here are the relevant specs:
- High resolution: 720x480 @ 30fps (DVD quality)
- 2.4" LCD display
- Records to SD flash memory; Supports up to 4GB cards; 70-280 minutes of video
- Internal rechargeable battery - 70 minutes
- Small & lightweight - size of a cigarette package - 80 x 52 x 22mm & 91g
- One-touch record
- Includes remote control

Here are some links to more specs on the unit:
http://stuntcams.com/shop/product_in...a7c67d525479c9
http://www.startechoutlet.com/prodvrstpv500.htm

Dave Zavelson
FM #86
Austin, TX
dave@uamotorsports.com

[Nicholas Belling]

I have tried the Neuros MPEG-4 Recorder 2 and the archos av-500. also my friend tried another built in screen mp4 recorder from online.. they all broke down from the intense vibrations quickly. even after they were carefully mounted and wrapped with foam/bubble wrap or some other cusioning.

I sent the Neuros back and got a replacement and experimented with it after I took the unit apart adn glued all the electronics to the board.. biggest thing I found was if the neuros didnt get its proper amount of supplied voltage it would start to act up.. so it was crucial to get a stable voltage regulator that wont vary to much..I think it needs something like 4 or 5 volts or something.. then the only difficulty was remote triggerring the device.. well once its on if it detects a signal it can automatically start recording.. so that wasnt to bad.

To date best recorder system is a sony minidv used / bullet cam / and remote trigger switch with led notification of what the camera is doing..

Sorry if I hijacked into this thread.

Just didnt know if you had tested this product before yourself and others get into buying a product that may have problems.

[red_z]

Thanks for the info. I welcome the feedback and have no attachments to this particular solution. I'm just trying to find the best one.

I have also tried the Mini-DV route and a cheaper solid-state recorder - Mustek PVR-A1. I've talked to several people trying to use the Neuros as well. I think there are issues with all of these solutions. While I haven't personally tested this new PV500, I believe it addresses many of the issues that the others have.

For me, in-car recording is not something I want to have to worry about at the track. I want something small and simple that just works and I don't have to mess with.

My experience:

- Mini-DV - Too complex and bulky and just as susceptible to the harsh environment with shock and vibration on all the moving parts. In addition, having to add an external trigger, find a safe and secure place to mount this "heavy projectile" and being able to easily access for tape loading, recharging, etc. I've done this and it was way too complicated.

- Hard-drive based recorders (Archos AV500) - Hard-drives cannot handle the vibrations period. Just not a good solution in a race-car.

- Low-cost solid-state recorders - Low resolution. Other than that, I've had a reasonable experience with these. I ran 3 Mustek PVR-A1s with my friends and they all lasted 2 years. They all failed the same way with the A/V input connector coming off. Considering they were only $100, I think thats pretty good. The beauty of these was that they are so small and lightweight, you can mount them anywhere. I actually just velcroed mine to the dashbaoard of my Formula Mazda and it worked great. 1 second installation for recharging, etc.

- Neuros - Great recording solution, but trying to fit a square-peg in a round hole. It simply wasn't designed to be a mobile product. Its meant to be inside and running on A/C power. I've seen the people trying to modify for battery power to be used in-car, but again I think this is making the solution much too complicated and introducing too many failure points.

I'm open to suggestions if anyone else has found a good solution. This one appears to me to be everything I've been looking for.

[VehDyn]

Have you seen any example footage for this system?

[Rick Kirchner]

Hey, it's a bit more expensive, don't know if the guy would offer a similar group discount, but the Chase Cam unit:

http://www.chasecam.com/recorders/pdr.htm

seems to offer a lot of the features to put to rest the worries of in-car use, including being able to use your Lan-C controller if you have one, car battery operation, and the support looks pretty good - they've been providing firmware updates. I think it has the same level of video performance as the one you are proposing. No plug intended - I don't own one yet.

I built a shock mount for my Data Acquisition that seems to do the job. If you don't need to be able to "see" ther recorder for a IR remote to work there's a lot of space behind the instrument panel and under the shock cover on most cars.

[carnut169]

Chasecam looks pretty sweet... lets do a group buy on those!

[TimW]

ChaseCam is MPEG2 as well. Much higher quality than MP4 at the same resolution/framerate.

I use a Panasonic SV-AV100 solid state camcorder that is as low as $225 up to $300 on ebay nowadays. It is also MPEG2.

[ccambern]

Tim,

I agree with you on MPEG-4- really nasty footage if there is too much movement. Will the D-Snap continue to record if the screen is closed?

-Clark

[TimW]

Tim,

Will the D-Snap continue to record if the screen is closed?

-Clark

Yes, but with a caveat. The SV-AV100 has an AV/IN for the bullet camera. You can close the screen and record no problem. I use an IR remote to start/stop it on the grid, velcroed inside the cockpit; there is also a record button on the back of the camera that is almost reachable. However, if you change the camera mode to Line Input and recording does not start with 5 minutes, the camcorder shuts off to save the battery; if its powered by the DC-IN, it does not shut off. Since I can't acces the camera once buckled in, I have a simple power supply that takes a small aux sealed battery (powersonic) 12V and converts it to the camcorders voltage/wattage requirements. About $4 in Radio shack parts. The Aux battery also powers the bullet, to isolate it from any car power RFI/noise.

[Joefisherff]

Rick, where did you get those shock mounts?

[Nicholas Belling]

The new PDR100-R version looks fabulous for us racers..
and the fact that they have out now a remote mount trigger switch with LED indication of status for there PDR lineup..

http://www.chasecam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=405

The connections either the more consumer rugged version ( - H )or the hardcore racing Deutsch AutoSport connectors ( -R).

I have a friend who knows Randy at chasecam supposidly very well.. I will see what prices he could get.

Dave do you know any samples for the PV-500 ? and do you know if it can continously record full quality in one file for up to 45 minutes without file breakup. nice thing of the PV-500 is the screen.. for quick playback.. but Most of us have larger screeens at the pits.

THe chasecame samples look great.. audio looks off quite a bit at times possibly..

Anyone else on here use Chasecam PDR100 boxes.

[Rick Kirchner]

They're Lord 106APL-2 purchased at G&J Aircraft and Competition, an aircraft surplus parts place in Ontario, CA. Mine were made in the 1950's believe it ot not! They have a huge box of them, and I think they were a buck each. 909-986-6534

I didn't engineer a propre solution - I just looked at those mounts, which were the lightest capacity I'd ever seen, and said "better than foam!" I'm sure they impart a little lag error into my acceleration data

[red_z]

I agree. The chasecam looks pretty nice. The only thing its missing is the screen. I find its nice to have a screen for aiming the camera and for quick viewing without having to get out a PC. Does anyone know what resolution it records at? I'd love to see what kind of group price we could get on those. Please let us know.

I'm trying to get a hold of some video samples of the PV-500. From its specs it should be at least as good and probably better than the Neuros which records at MPEG-4 but only 640x480. Here's a good link I found with some samples of that:
http://www.miata.tv/vidproj/vidproj/In-Car%20Video%20System.html

These guys actually have a really nice setup, but its too complex for my liking. Too many opportunities for failure.

Dave

[Joefisherff]

Thanks Rick!

[turnbaugh]

We have the Neuros and the Aiptek. The video quality is the same off the Chase bullet cam. The Aiptek is much smaller and much easier to use, has a self contained power supply and a built in screen.

[Messenger Racing]

Has anyone looked into these mini 4 camera mobile dvr sold by Security Cameras Direct:

http://www.scdlink.com/Details.cfm?P...359&category=0

No monitor but designed for automotive installation up to 2G's such as police cars - they also have a 40gb version to replace the CF card.

They have a guy working there that uses them in his touring sedan for track days but that is a far cry from the vibration we see in S2/FC type cars. He is very helpfull. They also sell about any camera you want and have dvr with screens but they are generally much more fragile.

FWIW

Jay Messenger

[Lindsey Wolfer]

I'm interested in the group buy... after the group figures out what the best system will be.

[TimW]

Has anyone looked into these mini 4 camera mobile dvr sold by Security Cameras Direct:

http://www.scdlink.com/Details.cfm?P...359&category=0

This only records at 15 frames per second. The others above will result in higher quality.

[red_z]

Well, I don't seem to be having much luck getting a video sample of the PV-500. I will keep trying and post something as soon as I can.

Was anybody able to contact Chase about a group purchase of their recorder?
Dave

[Messenger Racing]

This only records at 15 frames per second. The others above will result in higher quality.

Thanks Tim, good point, I was mainly focusing on the durability issue/pricing side of the equation.

What FPS are the good systems using.

Jay

[RoadHazard]

All TVs display at 30 frames per second (FPS), so that's what you want to record. Any less than that and it looks like an Olde Tyme flip-chart kind of picture.

[smsazzy]

I actually use a chasecam PDR100 for all my in car stuff. I found the camera more important in recording quality.

I have a Sony 1/3" 480 lines of res bullet cam.

I set the recording quality to sub-normal on the PDR (it has multiple setting/bit rates depending on how long you want it to last.)

At normal, a 30 minute race is about 1 GB. I use a 2GB flash card and dump it into my laptop after each day. I easily fit 2 sessions on 2 GB's.

I have it wrapped in foam, although they just released a box specifically for the unit that I am looking at. I have the base unit, and have not had any problems with the connections. I have video's posted at: http://www.tcrmotorsports.com/tcrmot...multimedia.php if you want to see samples.

Note: I use the mic embedded in the device, there is support for an external mic in the camera or otherwise, but I found wind noise to be an issue.

The 2 biggest factors in video quality are:
1- the camera
2- how far back in tha pack and how much oil/juices your competitors are spitting onto the lens of the camera.
(assuming the recorder is OK)

I have been very happy, and have not had any issues. I do update the firmware when it is released.

Lastly, they are supposedly coming out with interfaces to many data acquisition devices to allow you to overlay the two with no synching required.

I have no vested interest in this companies success other than hoping they will continue to add features as the unit is completely flash upgradeable in the field.

[smsazzy]

One thing to add to the above note. Watch the Portland video, second one down, as I had pretty much zero oil on the lens.

I switched camera's part way through the year from a 1/4" to a 1/3" lens, so on the 2006 highlights video you will notice two BIG difference in clarity. Also, LOTS of oil on the lens in a couple spots on the highlights video.

Also, there is a link in the embedded video that you can click on to "go to Google Video" if you want a bigger picture to watch.

[carnut169]

I just purchased a Chasecam system. They now have a 520 line camera and a bracket to hold the recorder. PDR100, 520 cam, bracket and shipping came to $775.

Expensive, yep but it seems to be a great system and I already have a LANC controller. Besides, I need to capture some video proof of this hobby before I go broke and have to quit!

Anyway, now that I don't have a vested interest I would be happy to talk to him about a group buy for the rest of you...
I mentioned it briefly when ordering my system and he said he would consider a discount if min of 10 were purchased and if everyone got a recorder/ camera/ bracket "kit".
don't know if we have that many people ready to plop down $700+ but we shall see.

[red_z]

Thanks carnut. I e-mailed him yesterday as well. Haven't heard back anything yet.

I personally would be interested in the recorder only. I already have a good mount and Sony 520 camera that I have been using with my old setup (Mustek PVR-A1). No need for me to reinvest in those parts. Lets see what he comes back with in terms of a discount and then start counting whos in.

Dave

[John LaRue]

I have some very interesting information on a recorder and cam that is closer in size to a package of cigarettes. I will get some information posted as soon as possible!

John

[turnbaugh]

Here is a very interesting new product that seems to have good quality video capture and has a built in display.

http://www.elmo.co.jp/suv-cam/en/index.html

It is just being started to be distributed here.

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]You can contact Damian at Protech for a cost on the unit. 760-930-9950[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]I think it is about $700.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

[JakeL]

I just purchased a Chasecam system. They now have a 520 line camera and a bracket to hold the recorder. PDR100, 520 cam, bracket and shipping came to $775.

Sean,

How do you plan to mount the Camera? Are you going to hard-wire the PDR100 into the car's +12v?

Also, how are you going to aim the camera? Do you have a MiniDV cam you can hook up for aiming, or something?

I've been looking into this exact setup myself, (the coneheads I run with love it, and I think it'll work great on track, too) so very eager to hear some first-hand impressions when you get the product, and when you get a chance to use it.

Cheers!

-Jake

[carnut169]

Sean,

How do you plan to mount the Camera? Are you going to hard-wire the PDR100 into the car's +12v?

Also, how are you going to aim the camera? Do you have a MiniDV cam you can hook up for aiming, or something?

I've been looking into this exact setup myself, (the coneheads I run with love it, and I think it'll work great on track, too) so very eager to hear some first-hand impressions when you get the product, and when you get a chance to use it.

Cheers!

-Jake

I don't know yet but imagine it will have to go on top of the roll bar. The trick will be figuring out a mount that allows easy removal as the camera will have to come off to remove the engine cover.

Yes, I'll hard-wire it w/ a seperate switch and fuse.

I will hook the camera up to a portable monitor- I've got this nifty Audiovox dvd system designed for cars... it has a cig lighter power adapter. I've also got a jump box w/ a cig lighter type power supply so I will just plug the audiovox into the jump box and aim away.

I will definately let you guys know how it works!

[JakeL]

Sounds like you've thought it through. Eager to see the results!

-Jake

[red_z]

Here is a very interesting new product that seems to have good quality video capture and has a built in display.

http://www.elmo.co.jp/suv-cam/en/index.html

It is just being started to be distributed here.

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]You can contact Damian at Protech for a cost on the unit. 760-930-9950[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial] [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial]I think it is about $700.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

Very slick system! Unfortunately it sounds a little too rich for my blood. I did some more research and they appear to be showing a $1200 MSRP.
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/491035

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ie=UTF8&seller=


There's another solid-state camcorder that could be interesting and cheap. Not sure how robust the construction is though and if it would hold up to the vibrations. Has the right specs though 720x480 @ 30 fps for $199.
http://www.svp-tech.com/8800/8800.htm

[Dave Welsh]

Found this item on ebay, an all in one helmet cam, comes with several types of mounts, 185.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/WIRELESS-HELMET-...QQcmdZViewItem

[Steve Herrod]

Found this item on ebay, an all in one helmet cam, comes with several types of mounts, 185.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/WIRELESS-HELMET-...QQcmdZViewItem

This unit is from Oregon Scientific and is available direct for $129.95, although it is out of stock at the moment.

http://www.weatherconnection.com/pro...=&mfg=all&page=

[racer27]

I think the two above posts refer to the same unit, differance is that the e-bay unit has the 2GB card, included in the higher purchase price.

I've been using a Jones CAM system with a Lanc Capiable Sony Cam-Corder for 3 years. No issues whatsoever, very happy, expecially now that we've wired the camera into the 12 volt system of the Rae car. Only challange, finding room in the cockpit for the recorder, and the 1 hr lenght of the tapes. I can't get all sessions (FRCCA) of a race day in on a single tape.

However, I may get one of these systems as a B-Day Present for my daughter for a up commming Ski Trip. If it ends up being a second camera or a back-up on the race car, cool.

[Rick Iverson]

Sean;

With deference to you fastidious nature, I'll wait until you report on the video quality and hardware durability. But from what I understand, this might be the ticket. Standing by…


Iverson

[Stan Vann]

Here is a memory card based camcorder system which is designed for extreme sports. It is completely self contained, so you don't have to worry about power and has 1 GB of built in memory with ability to add more. The remote camera is included. It measures about 4' X 2.5" X 1.5" It includes the screen for aiming and I will use Chasecams roll bar mount for mounting the remote cam. The best part is it is selling for less than $400 on serveral sites. I've just gotten mine so I'll give you a report shortly. I think it will be great for a formula car with limited space. See www.samsung.com or do a search for "Samsung SCX-210L"

[enjoythetrack]

I think it will be great for a formula car with limited space. See www.samsung.com or do a search for "Samsung SCX-210L"

Have the older version of this camera and have been reading this thread over the past few weeks. The reason i did not mention this camera is the first gen has problems with editing AND the bullet cam's mic is nothing but wind noise past 30mph

Before you run into troubles like some of us, see http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/mb/sportscam/ .

The camera appears to be a great idea and love the fact it records to memory card. The video is a bit blurry and there are some other things... though it is an interesting package. Have used it in the past attached to the dash of my tintop with ok results. Am hoping it works to some degree with the FC. Time will tell.

[teamfour]

I use a DVR made by Ovation Systems. It is called a Flashback and was designed for covert operations and is also found in law enforcement vehicles. At $3300, this thing ain't cheap, but the quality is superb and it is virtually indestructable. More info can be found here:

http://www.ovation.co.uk/FlashBack-2...ged%20DVR.html

And no, I didn't pay for it.

[turnbaugh]

If anyone is interested and someone has a site to post a clip, I can post the video from a Chase bullet cam and my $100 hybrid camcorder by Aiptek. It is actually quite good for $100. 640x480 30 fps and has a built in display. I could post on YouTube or Google but that degrades the quality.

[red_z]

Ok, I might have found a good solution. I just picked up an RCA Lyra X2400. Here are the specs:
- $199 from Target.com
- Completely flash based (CompactFlash) - includes 512MB card
- Records at 640x480 @ 30 fps! (MPEG4/Divx)
- Nice big 3.5" LCD screen
- Battery powered (up to 5 hours video playback)
- 4" x 0.8" x 3.3"
http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/m...roductID=X2400


With MPEG4 its not quite as nice as the Chase that records at MPEG2, but it looks like it should do a pretty nice job. Its cheap, compact, and with the integrated LCD will make camera aiming easy.

To get an idea of the video quality, I plugged it into my DVD player and recorded a sample off some Run-Offs footage. You should be able to play this through Windows Media Player. You may need to download the Divx codec if you don't have it already loaded.

http://putstuff.putfile.com/43211/8033433

If we can't get a killer discount on a ChaseCam group purchase, I think I may just call it good enough with this little guy.
Dave