FC/FS/FM/FA/F1000 dropped from MARRS Series?

[Alan Oppel]

I have heard it said here before, why is there a need to eliminate the group instead of just moving the cars into other groups? Other regions place cars in different groups ie FF is with FC and FA etc in Central Fla. and FF is with FV and F500 in Fla Region.
In many other areas IT and Spec miata seem to get the attention of the stewards to the point of stewards saying "we need them to make our weekends profitable". Forgotten is the idea that this is a non-profit organization [club], and originally was concieved to not exclude anyone who wanted to participate. If someone were sharp enough to read into the book, I think they would find that a National or Regional event must be open to all classes of cars, unless it is described as a "restricted" event.
For years IT events such as Enduro's have altered the track time others get on the same weekend. In Central Fla IT enduro's can have hundreds of entries, prompting me to offer up the idea that enduro's have stand-alone events as do other SCCA specialties such as Solo, Rally etc.
For the time at hand I do hope the cars can be fit into another group. that would be the most efficent decision, and the easiest to implement.
Alan

[Drivers Services]

Jason,

Many,many,many years ago I recieved a SCCA National license based soley on RCCA (FRCCCA) experience. I believe this still to be true. The divisional licensing directors (Not sure of the exact title) have considerable leeway in making these decisions.


I also like your idea of changing regions upon renewal, doesn't matter if you were directly affected or not. If I ran say E-Prod in that region I still wouldn't want to be a member, upon renewal just change your region. The regional dues go to the region of your choice.


Peronally I feel there is a place for restricted regionals. Perhaps even restricted nationals (for a track that has 2 nationals a year) for that matter, but the entire series? No.


Jim Little
Drivers Services

[anthonywill3]

The region seems to think (by what I have read) that they will add 40 entries per event by eliminating the proposed classes... Like the 275 average car count isnt enough? It is looking more and more like the region cares more about the bottom line then their members. Economics are absolutely important so we have a place to race, but for them to cry "this is a business decision" is pure horsesh1t. This is not a region that is hurting financially, as far as I can tell.

[fv31]

i don't run big bore formula cars. but anyone that straps in a car without fenders is my brother. this sucks. i posted what is below on the vee board. pretty much sums up what i think, and i'm too lazy to type it again, so i just cut and paste.

edit- i reread alan's post above. if ya really want to piss in their porridge, the first event that they have and do not note it as a restricted regional, show up on late entry with your open wheel car and protest them. yeah it's petty, but so is this.

------------------------------------------------------------

[SIZE=2]what a bag of crap. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]yeah....i'm not surprised. but it still sucks. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]we've seen some defections from the marrs series this past year. hank bilek in F500 comes to mind, and i met a couple of people in other open wheel classes (FC if i recall) who are traveling south to run SARRC instead of marrs. the feedback i've gotten so far has been extremely positive. they like being appreciated and find the competition good, the tracks good, just an all around positive experience. and hey....it's good for our numbers. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]complaints i heard from many of them centered on being treated as second class citizens in marrs. the move to SARRC has universally been viewed as a step up, and worth the extra drive. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]this is just a byproduct of the taking over of scca by the tin top minions and their ilk. the arrogance of excluding formula cars is just unfathomable. if their desire is to become a boring little milquetoast crash fest of boring little tin top cars bashing into each other, then good job marrs series! hell...it's a one track series! that's excitement! NOT! (no, VIR does NOT count....it's a NC region track!) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]i'd be willing to bet that the random chick in a bar would be much more impressed to find out you run open wheel than that you race a barbie car. but being married 20 years, i'll have to let someone else put my theory to test. lol [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]to address all you open wheel guys in REAL race cars who are being treated like crap in your present series......head south. we'll take ya. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]long live SARRC. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]bill [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]fv31 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2](marrs intentionally in lower case letters to show contempt)[/SIZE]

[RussMcB]

This seems so odd to me, probably because I'm only familiar with SARRC & NARRC. I don't think either of those series would dream of excluding ANY nationally recognized class. Is MARRS some kind of a Restricted Regional series, not regular regional races that count towards the MARRS championship? Am I wrong about SARRC & NARRC?

[EYERACE]

3 ideas

1. and maybe i'm wrong here but i seem to have come across this stat somewhere.....from the car count standpoint....with SCCA Nationals being number one.....the SARRC series is the second best subscribed series in the USA.

2. for roughly ten years here in the Cent. Fla. region of SCCA I have only known SRF and F500 and FV to be in the same grid for regionals. split starts for the SRF vs the F500 and FV.........but it works. FV F500 and FF for Nationals.

3. is DC region enforcing the qualifying 110% [or is it 120%] rule? that will eliminate oversubscribed classes in the tin tops. in roughly 10 years i've never seen the % qualifying rule enforced at any of the roughly 50 events i've entered.

[Michael Rand]

Hi Russ,
As someone pointed out in the thread a region can choose to request a sanction for a regional event as a Restricted Regional, meaning not every class will run.
To the best of my knowledge this avenue has been used to sanction things like an SRF "Pro" race in support of an existing pro weekend at any track, as an example SRF in support of ALMS at Lime Rock. I am not aware of this tactic being used to exclude certain classes from an entire series however. As a way of including one or more classes on a non-SCCA weekend it is a very useful method for a promoter to fill out the card on an existing race weekend with some track time available.
The Restricted Regional sanction in this instance is exclusionary and appears driven by "bottom liners", if you will, with some justification. Some, not to say complete justification, in any way, shape , or form. Justified in that they, the WDCRegion, seems determined to maximise the revenue streams available to them on any given MARRD weekend. Not justifiable, in my opinion, in that it sets a precedent and will surely be very divisory among the membership.
To the best of my knowledge, and for sure someone on this forum will point out my error SARRC, NARRC, and until now MARRS, have been Regional level points championships open to all approved SCCA Regional classes.
Is this the start of a disturbing trend ? Possibly.
I suspect this will get , well, "interesting" might not be the exact correct word but it may be apt.
I will be curious to hear what comes out of the NEDIV Mini-Con just over today, Sunday 11/12, in South Jersy regarding this topic.

[Tom Valet]

Mike, it seems you are right on the money. Just going by what Stan Clayton has posted over on the Miata forum, under the SCCA rules a region must have a place for all recognized classes for its regional series. If Stan is correct then this action will have to be reversed.

Tom

[VehDyn]

Just from an outsider looking in (meaning I don't run in that region and have only read this thread and the one on the Miata forum) I find this not only disturbing, but interesting relative to the motivations of the people behind this. From what I have read, the rep from the Miata group, Mike, has been lobbying for this for several years to increase his groups track time. From what I can read from his signature, he also rents miatas for these races. Now, granted I do'nt know Mike personally, but I find it a bit fishy that this whole move to exclude other groups can not only increase his track time, but his revenue as more track time means more rental fees.

One would hope this would not be the motivation, but then again, excluding club members for personal gain (even if just track time) is shady at best.

Ken

[roadrace27]

No matter how this works out (for the record I hope everyone has a place to race) I think this is a sign that classes should strive to keep their run counts high or they risk being pushed out by more popular classes. Capitalism at its best I guess.

Sure there are personalities and other motivations involved, but this wouldn't have happened if the numbers didn't at least support it.

[Larry]

I've been a member of the DC region for about 15 years. This past year, I alternated between driving my FF and being a steward (volunteer). This issue was promulgated solely by folks who were out to kill formula cars. There were no instances in the past several years when we had to drop ANYONE due to over-subscription. Nor were economics an issue, because the MARRS series typically had 250+ entries per race.

I'm still so pissed off about this that I can hardly see straight. Hopefully the DC board will overturn this. If not, I'm ready to take my membership and transfer it to a different region. I'll also be volunteering to act as a steward and I'll be driving 3 or 4 times a year. I'll certainly look at other sanctioning bodies, too. I live very close to Summit, and I love the track and the folks who manage it, but if I have to travel to get my racing "fix," I have some good alternatives.

I'd like to hear more about FRCCA, EMRA and NASA. The DC Region has made the biggest blunder since John Kerry suggested that poor students will end up in the military.

Larry Oliver

[racer27]

Larry --

In reponse to your post, EMRA/FORMULA PRO will be racing at Summitt Point this weekend... Assuming weather is fair, turnout should be good, plenty of people around to answer your questions Unfortunatly some of the CF/FF racers have already packed it in for the season, but I know a couple from "Up North" will be making the trek down to one of the Finer tracks on the East Coast. Feel free to drop by if you are in the vacinity...

We'll be there, Primer Black (Work in Progress) #27 Citation FC... Probably departing early on Sun, Noonish... Most of us tend to hang out around Lindsey Wolfer's Trailer (Speedline Racing).

I have concern over this MARRS Decision... I don't think it would of occurred (More dificult to justify) if there was stronger class participation... Cars need to get come out of the garage get on track on a more frequent basis. We vote with our $$$, in this case here the Tin Tops went one step futher and for the most part voted thier $$$ as a block...

[RussMcB]

I wonder what the National office thinks of this. And the Divisional Directors.

This is so bizarre that I think it will not happen. On the other hand, if it does have a chance of succeeding and we don't want this to spread, we should let our views be known to our Division Directors and the National Office. I would hope they would want to preserve the open wheel aspect of sports car racing in our club, not stifle it.

[T.Bardwell]

I am with Rick... this "kill the open wheel class conspiracy" has been going on in the DC region for over 10 years. That's why I don't race at Summit point. YOU WILL NEVER GET THE CAR COUNTS UP WITH THE "Wings-n-Things GROUPING", and in my opinion, that's been the point of the BOD for years. It's not safe and it's not fun... therefore nobody will show up! I have proposed "SPLITTING THE EVENTS" before, to free up track time and paddock space. Either we do this or we take OUR SHOW elsewhere. See John Heckman's post... there are OTHER ALTERNATIVES. WE MAKE THE THE GRIDS "THE RACERS", NOT THE SCCA. There's no reason why the smaller clubs can't take the place of the SCCA with OUR PARTICIPATION. Stop trying to participate where you always feel your are unwelcome, the prices keep going up exponentially, and he service keeps going down. The SCCA has this virtual monoply and that's precisely why WE'RE GETTING SCREWED. If I had an FC car, I'd be racing with Bob Wright and company in a heart beat... it's a no brainer. You actually get some money back for a decent result? This could be duplicated elsewhere. Every other racing venue does this but the SCCA ! Why? because they don't have any competition. And we choose to keep it that way by not participating elsewhere. Summit Point is 1 hour from my home... I did NOT race there this year because I feel I am unwelcome by the DC Region, and Summit Point sucks on April 1st. Those stingey regional SOBS get 7 weekends at Summit Point over the nicest months of the year... and the National guys have to race in the snow? And you wonder why nobody shows up... I don't. Larry Oliver is right... let's look elsewhere and stop beating a dead horse. See John Heckman's post above.

[Larry]

It had nothing to do with low participation numbers. Otherwise, they would have killed EP, FP, GP, HP, GTL and a lot of other cars with lower numbers. Last year at Summit we even ran an SPU and a Craftsman truck. We TRIED to accommodate these people, and it worked.

This was purely a political assassination. While I have previously regarded racing as a brotherhood, I'm reconsidering this position. The proponents of this were out to do two things: (1) better their personal goals, and (2) reduce the population of real race cars. They certainly weren't trying to improve racing or make the DC Region a better organization or better place to race (unless you raced a Miata).

Thanks for the invite this weekend. I have already put the car into maintenance. I would consider coming out and observing, but I leave for the left coast on Wednesday and probably won't be fit company upon my return. My compliments to Lindsay, and wishes for an excellent event!

Larry Oliver

[Charles Warner]

Before you go about slamming the SCCA get off your soapbox and look at the facts. This is not a Club-wide conspiracy, as much as you might like to think so. It is an issue involving one region of the Club. How you can transfer all that vitriol to the organization at large is beyond reason.

You have the right to vote with both your wallet and your voice. Avoid the events (all of them) put on by the WDCR and let them know you are deliberately withholding your support. AND, send a cogent and well thought out letter to the CRB stating your case.

There are questions as to the legitimacy of this practice that the board is looking into. Let the process work before you start slaying imaginary dragons.

[Larry]

You're correct, Charles. It is not an SCCA-wide conspiracy. I doubt the SCCA could have conspired to screw up the formula car racing any worse than they have unintentionally done. Zetec, Duratec, Pinto, Kent, F1000, FM, FM- new, FFirst and of course, my personal favorite, the FSCCA. This would be an entirely different rant. Right now the target of my displeasure is the DC Region (of which I am a member). All politics are local, though. This debacle reflects on more than the DC Region. We have already heard from folks who were not members of the region, but who raced regularly in the MARRS series. It will obviously affect those who were thinking of buying formula cars (even non-winged ones!). It will certainly affect the workers and their decisions on whether (and how much) to participate.

Frankly, I don't give a fat rat's ass about most of the actions taken by the national organization. I don't care whether they work out of Topeka or Timbuktu. I don't care (much) about whether the GCR is in print or on-line, or whether I need my birthdate and blood type on my helmet. These are small potatoes. My primary concern is about the conduct and management of my local race. All politics (and racing) are local.

Larry Oliver

[Charles Warner]

Larry,

Your post got intermixed with my response to T. Bardwell. It was not aimed at you. Sorry for the confusion. I totally understand your frustrations, especially after reading the tripe that is posted on the Miata Board.

Again, apologies if you thought I was addressing you.

Cheers,

[RussMcB]

Is the MARRS series conducted by a single region, Washington, DC? I assumed it was more like SARRC and NARRC. There are a lot of regions that provide input into the SARRC series (rules, schedule, etc.). For instance, if the Atlanta region wanted to bully something through SARRC, I don't think they'd have much luck unless they got cooperation from other regions.

I'm just trying to understand if it is a MARRS series change across the board? Or all WDC regional races? Or just some?

Just curious.

[John Nesbitt]

MARRS is a regional series put on the the DC Region. Most events are at Summit Point, but there are always a couple of out-of-region races. This year, there were nine races (seven weekends), of which six (five weekends) were at Summit.

These changes apply only to the MARRS races put on by WDCR at Summit. Out-of-region races follow the race groups of the organizing region. So, for the races at VIR, FC's would still be welcome.

As mentioned, this decision is being reviewed by the WDCR Board, and will very likely be reversed. Folks should wait for the dust to settle before getting too excited.

[racer27]

I'm hoping this decision gets reversed before it gets implemented (Write to the SCCA and make sure they are aware that a decision has been made to negtively impact your class). If this does not get reversed, I hope people reliaze there are other options to race your Formula Car at Summit Pt & other Region Tracks.

www.formulaproracing.org (an EMRA Club) pulls fairly large fields of winged cars. As previosly mentioned they will be racing this weekend (Main Track), so you can come check out the run groups yourself and meet some of the competitors.

FRCCA also races at Summit, but thier fields for the last few years have been largly CF/FF cars (If this passes, will they be the next banned class?). I believe, in 2006, thier Summit races have been exclusivley on the Shahdoah Circut.

I hope this decision (If it does not get reversed) does not cause the following:

-- Winged cars do fewer events
-- Drivers garage thier cars (due to fustration or longer tows)
-- Drivers sell thier cars and get out of sport
-- Drivers sell their winged cars and move to a Tin Top (Like SM), where now they get more track time.

[John Nesbitt]

This is absolutely not the time for DC Region open wheel drivers to be looking elsewhere.

This is the time to write to the WDCR Board, or at least the RE (Gayle Lorenz gslorenz@sccaracer.com), reminding them that SCCA is a club which exists for all its members, and that the competition committee exceeded its authority by disenfranchising some members.

The Board can, should, and likely will, reverse this.

[M.L.Sauce]

John -You are absolutely right.Stand up for what is right.Let the DC Region people know how you and all the open wheeled people feel.We have many people in this club who feel they are just customers and the numbers should rule everything.It is just not that way.When this becomes a club for the numbers only I am gone.

[George Houtz]

Just sent an email to Gayle Lorenz. Who else do we send to?

[Olsinvest]

Just sent an email to Gayle Lorenz. Who else do we send to?

Why not leave your question up there as it was George?

I have been reading both this forum and the one at specmiata.com. I race a Spec Miata (flame away if you need to, I can handle it). I am amazed that you all seem to think that "we" (meaning Miata Drivers) are responsible for this happening. I think it is sad that this has happened, as do all of the people I race with. I consider anyone that races a brother (or sister), and I have read lots of hate towards fellow racers. This has been an issue for several years now, long before I became a racer, and before our drivers rep became a racer. To focus all your attention to the "Tin Tops" (as several have called us) and blame us for this is stretching it way too far. There were several options discussed in our group. Suggestions like having the races stretch out over two weekends, I recall. I consider you all friends even though most of us have never met, but please stop blaming the likes of myself for what has happened. There were several Driver's Reps present and voting at this meeting, 2 "yeas" would not have allowed this to happen.

Regards,
Alan

[T.Bardwell]

Charles. While I appreciate your input from TENNESSEE, this latest development in the DC REGION is a local issue for sure. I don't have a SOAP BOX, I have a CF and a FF which I have raced regularly for the past 17 years. Please don't attack me in an attempt to protect the precious club. I want nothing to do with arguing the facts with people whose names never make a grid sheet. Stan has made it perfectly clear (at Sauce's meeting in Topeka) that National wants to do away with FF and FC. It seems they don't approve of people racing old formula cars year in and year out. There not sexy enough. Apparently their cronies (stohr and folks) who build new formula fords aren't selling enough of them, and their trying to make a whole new market with F1000 so they can. That new market doesn't include FF or FC. Get the bigger picture?

So let's keep it friendly and open. I am in this to RACE, not play politics. And frankly, I don't have the time for this bs. But I certainly don't want a group of doorslammers relegating my formula cars to the garage. The fact the TinTops are racing the same car twice on any given weekend, and they want us to leave? Unreal.

As for fighting the DC region, I am afraid you are all just kidding yourselves. These folks have been wittling away at the open wheelers for a long time. They don't want solutions... they want us gone. The "token race group" they will give you at Summit will be first session in the morning, the last session of the weekend, and the session that always seems to be cut short... I have written the Dc Region, and I have voted with my wallet/entries more than I care to remember.

I apologize to anyone who I may have offended with my suggestions.

[Olsinvest]

The "token race group" they will give you at Summit will be first session in the morning, the last session of the weekend, and the session that always seems to be cut short... I have written the Dc Region, and I have voted with my wallet/entries more than I care to remember.

I apologize to anyone who I may have offended with my suggestions.

Actually you are incorrect. The race groups change every race weekend. If FV ect is Group 1 for MARRS 1 at Sumit Point, it will be Goup 3 at the next MARRS Race that is at Summit Point. The race groups move by 2 at the next race.

I hate to see this happen to those affected. If any of you that are being affected are being shut out of racing because of it, I may have an extra car available next year and would offer it to you for the cost of operating it (gas, etc.). I am not in the business of renting cars but I feel that bad for you guys not being able to race.

[Rick Kirchner]

Dirt track guys have issues with this sort of thing frequently. They might have midgets, sportsmen, and sprints on the same card. Not everybody can race. That's why they have QUALIFYING!!

If a class is oversubscribed then split practice into two short qualifying sessions. 60 cars and the track only handles 50? Slow guys, crashers, and guys that don't prep go home early. It happens every weekend across the country. It's a powerful incentive to do good car prep, get fast faster, and by all means, drive clean.

Yeah, dirt is a little different, they have four run groups instead of eight or more, and they run all day and under the lights (but they usually don't start at 0800!). But it's not that different.

[fv31]

a VERY good point. and one must admit....to show up and not make the field is one thing. to be told not to bother coming is entirely another.

as for the "business" and "numbers"......this is the sports car CLUB of america.....not the scba. it's primary purpose is to serve it's members. and it's members are a cross section of society. some people are good guys, some are jerks. some are generous, and some are greedy. the membership of the club can and should dictate it's direction. the question is, do enough people have the backbone.....the fortitude to do what is right, and not what is easy or best for them personally.

yes, if you're a dc region miata driver, this is a great thing for you. you get even more track time than you already get. never mind the fact that you're already in two run groups in a weekend.....it's all about YOU!

but is it really?

i'm not a big joiner. i dislike groups. scca is the only organization that i can be called a member of. i've always said, this is my church. consequently, and maybe i was misguided, i expected more of the people in this group than i expected from the population as a whole. i expected things to be more honest. i expected things to be more fair. i expected things to be more inclusive and less exclusive. i expect MORE and BETTER from scca people than i do from the population as a whole. as time wears on, i become more disappointed. i haven't totally given up on this utopian view.....but certain people make it harder to keep the faith.

when it becomes all about one group. one type. making the larger group happier at the expense of the few.....the bigger groups being able to chase the smaller ones out......i think it's gone round the bend. when it's all about "ME", it becomes more mercenary. and when it becomes more mercenary, it becomes less of what it was. and eventually, it ceases to exist.

i've heard people say things like........."there are people here for the club (structure, power, and politics), and people here for the racing". i'm here for the racing. and i'd hope that anybody who straps in is here for the same reason. and to be honest, i think that most of the people on the "running of things" (stewards, corner workers, tech, etc) are as well. and to exclude some people from getting "any" racing, so those that already have more than their fair share can get "more".....well.....that's too much club and not enough racing.

if i wanna deal with a bunch of cutthroat self serving a$$holes, i'll go to work. not the race track.

bill
fv31

note- i noticed someone above apologized if they offended anyone. i am not as kind. i offer no apology for my viewpoint, and do not care who i offend. pick a side...and stand your ground. you may be next. and it's like that all through life.

[John Nesbitt]

This might be a good time to dial back on the invective. Yes, this is a tough issue and folks' racing is at stake, but throwing bombs isn't going to help.

The DC Region Board will take this up on Saturday, and I am willing to bet that it will reverse the competition committee's decision.

When this is all over, we shall still all be members of SCCA and still need to work with the SM and IT guys to produce a region racing program.

[Olsinvest]

yes, if you're a dc region miata driver, this is a great thing for you. you get even more track time than you already get. never mind the fact that you're already in two run groups in a weekend.....it's all about YOU!

Please explain to me how it is that you come up with your conspiracy theory that the Miata Drivers get more track time? Our track time does not increase in the least! I think that if you are going to post information, it should at least be accurate. We (Miata Drivers) have two races groups (based on the numbers that show up) for 2 years now. We will continue to have 2 race groups. Nothing has changed with our race groups. Also the thought (and posting here) that we all, or the majority of us race in both classes (SM and SSM), is also incorrect. 5 drivers out 60-70+ drove in both classes last year.

if i wanna deal with a bunch of cutthroat self serving a$$holes, i'll go to work. not the race track.

bill
fv31

note- i noticed someone above apologized if they offended anyone. i am not as kind. i offer no apology for my viewpoint, and do not care who i offend. pick a side...and stand your ground. you may be next. and it's like that all through life.

Very sorry you feel this way.

I have come here to offer understanding and racing time for basically free. It may not be what you normally race, but I happen to think it is a blast.

[Charles Warner]

Please explain to me how it is that you come up with your conspiracy theory that the Miata Drivers get more track time? Our track time does not increase in the least! I think that if you are going to post information, it should at least be accurate. We (Miata Drivers) have two races groups (based on the numbers that show up) for 2 years now. We will continue to have 2 race groups. Nothing has changed with our race groups.

I, for one, feel your offer of a race car was very thoughtful. Don't take the arrogancy of a few misguided (and somewehat frustrated) souls as the norm.

However, the major point (at least to me) in this discussion does revolve around the two race groups. One of these race groups (SSM) is NOT listed in the GCR as being an officially recognized class. And, the GCR is pretty explicit when it states that no recognized class will lose competition time in deference to a non-recognized (read "restricted" or "invited") class.

The GCR also supplies a procedure defining the qualifying procedure for an over-subscribed class. IMO these procedures and rules should be followed.

Nothing may have changed in your race groups, but there certainly has been a change in the Race Groupings of the events. This is the area of contention - that estrablished classes are excluded while non-established classes are included. I know all the economic arguments - and they just do not apply here, however logical it may seem.

[Dennis McCarthy]

Renault LeCar,
Volkswagon Rabbit,
Dodge Neon,
Spec RX-7,
Short memories.........

[Stan Clayton]

Good point, John. Although the plan to eliminate the winged formula cars was instigated and pushed to a vote by tin-top guys, to me this is not a formula-vs-sedan issue. Furthermore, I see all this Miata bashing as counter productive and beside the point. To me, the issue is not protecting the racing for the 6 or 8 or whatever number of winged formula cars that show up for Washington DC Region regionals, but rather the far greater issue of the integrity of the future of SCCA.

For six decades now, SCCA has been the benchmark of club racing in the USA. Over the years a system of (usually) 5-9 race groups was honed to provide equal access to the track for all classes, the number of which has ebbed and flowed over the years. But always the bedrock operating assumption was that all classes had equal access to the racing.

WDCR's proposed racing plan for 2007 threatens that paradigm in a fundamental, and in my view, devastating manner by eliminating GCR-recognized classes to make more room for their currently most popular classes. On the face of it in today's cutomer-driven social climate, such an approach might sound like it makes sense. But consider the ramifications if the plan is permitted to proceed.

If WDCR can "cherry pick" its most popular classes and eliminate the least popular, those eliminated classes can NEVER come back in that Region, for the simple reason that they no longer exist! Blink...winged formula cars no longer exist in the Club's second largest Region. Then Cal Club, another large Region with thinly subscribed formula and sports racer classes, sees that WDCR got away with it, so decides to eliminate those classes to make more room for whatever its most popular classes are. Blink...another Region where GCR-recognized classes are eliminated from regional racing by the stroke of a pen. And so it goes. One Region after another will weed out long-recognized classes that are "inconvenient" to their racing program. and the cascade effect will devastate the Club in a manner that the collective efforts of other road racing clubs, pro series, single-marque clubs, lawsuits, etc., could never hope to come even close to.

This issue is not some hair-splitting but ultimately trivial dispute between Rennie and Art Smith over F-1000 bottom aero rules, folks. This is a threat to the existence of the Club as we know it, and as such is worthy of our concerted effort to stop.

Here is how I see the rules issues. First, WDCR's plan to exploit what they see as a loophole in 3.1.2.D. would violate at least two specific sections of the GCR: 17.1., second paragraph on page 81, and 7.1.4 on page 44.

GCR 17.1, second paragraph reads, "Organizers of SCCA Regional, National Championship, and Interdivisional Championship events shall provide competitions for the following classes and categories." The word SHALL is directive in nature, as specified in the bottom paragraph on page 1 of the GCR. In plain language, that means that all Regions MUST provide racing to ALL classes recognized in the GCR. WDCR's 2007 Regional racing plan would totally deny that opportunity to FA FM FC FS FSCCA and F1000, and so stands in violation of 17.1.

WDCR's plan also violates 7.1.4., which reads, "Competitions for classes, other than those specified in Section 17., Automobiles, shall not jeopardize a full schedule of competitions for the recognized classes." By setting aside an entire race group for SSM, a regional class not recognized in the GCR, while not permitting at least 6 recognized classes to race in any of their regional races, the Region again violates the GCR.

WDCR's Competition Committee argues that the "Restricted Competitions" in 3.1.2.D. permits them to do this, but they are incorrect on two counts. The first and easiest objection is that nothing in 3.1.2.D. absolves the Region of providing "full competitions" for all recognized classes as required in 71.4. and 17.1, which they do not do.

Second, WDRC's argument that because 3.1.2.D. permits them to exclude formula cars from their "12 Hours at the Point", it permits them to schedule an entire season's race schedule that way. This argument fails on at least two critical points: the point I raise in the previous paragraph, and the first sentence of GCR 7.1.3.E., "Formula cars shall not be combined with cars from any other category except Sports Racing." It is illegal to combine open wheel and sedans in the same race, so when a region holds a single race like WDCR's 12 hour enduro at Summit Point, the Club approves their plan to exclude formula cars. This situation is not the case for all races on their 2007 MARRS schedule, however, since all of them except the 12 Hours include the normal complement of 9 race groups, including small bore formula and sports racer classes. Only the winged formula cars are excluded.

So what to do about it?

First, quit bashing the Miata guys. This isn't a Miata issue, per se, in spite of the fact that some SM drivers are leading the charge in WDCR.

Second, if your racing program is affected by this decision, you need to communicate your objection directly to the WDCR BoD. Their email addresses are listed here. [Note: Barry Haynie is no longer on the WDCR BoD.]

If you are concerned about the larger issue, you might wish to communicate your concerns to the SCCA BoD at bod@scca.com.

In any case, be polite and stay on topic. Ad hominem attacks on persons or car classes are counter productive and are generally ignored.

Remember, this is not about sticking up for a few formula cars. This is about maintaining the integrity of the system that has served us so well for 60 years. Defend it or lose it, it's as simple as that.

Regards, Stan Clayton

[KAMcDonald]

not sure what other possibilities were explored... splitting over two weekends would be tossed out just for the logistics of getting workers there. instead of dropping classes and rearranging other wings and things groupings, why not play with the schedule itself? we already rotate race groups by two each event to let people start home a little earlier, why not be a little more aggressive and do it all the same day for 5 groups, then 5 the next?

i did up a quick spreadsheet, ends up with about 1 extra hour on sunday, does away with the sunday hardship which is really nothing more than if you have a pulse you can go out for practice. the grouping can be split a little more to make lunch hour close to 12 - 1 timeframe based on how much cleanup has to be done between sessions.

this would also make paddock parking space a little less congested as people for sat race could show up friday night, as they race and start taking off saturday afternoon, people coming in for sunday race start showing up and taking the empty spots.

Current........................................... ........Possible?
Saturday.......................................... ......Saturday
Group..Start...........Duration..Turnover.......Gr oup...Start.............Duration..Turnover
Practice.......................................... ........Practice
1.........8:30:00 AM...15..........10..............1........8:30:00 AM...15...........10
2.........8:55:00 AM...15..........10..............2........8:55:00 AM...15...........10
3.........9:20:00 AM...15..........10..............3........9:20:00 AM...15...........10
4.........9:45:00 AM...15..........10..............4........9:45:00 AM...15...........10
5.......10:10:00 AM...15..........10..............5.......10:10:00 AM...15...........10
6.......10:35:00 AM...15..........10..............qualify
7.......11:00:00 AM...15..........10..............1.......10:35:00 AM...15...........10
8.......11:25:00 AM...15..........10..............2.......11:00:00 AM...15...........10
9.......11:50:00 AM...15..........10..............3.......11:25:00 AM...15...........10
lunch.12:15:00 PM...60............................4.......11:50:0 0 AM...15...........10
Qualify........................................... ........5.......12:15:00 PM...15...........10
1........1:15:00 PM...15...........10..............lunch.12:40:00 PM...60
2........1:40:00 PM...15...........10..............race
3........2:05:00 PM...15...........10..............1.......1:40:00 PM....30...........10
4........2:30:00 PM...15...........10..............2.......2:20:00 PM....30...........10
5........2:55:00 PM...15...........10..............3.......3:00:00 PM....30...........10
6........3:20:00 PM...15...........10..............4.......3:40:00 PM....30...........10
7........3:45:00 PM...15...........10..............5.......4:20:00 PM....30...........0
8........4:10:00 PM...15...........10..............end...4:50:00 PM
9........4:35:00 PM...15.............0
end....4:50:00 PM
Sunday............................................ ......Sunday
Race.............................................. ........Group..Start.........Duration....Turnover
H1......8:30:00 AM...10...........5................Practice
H2......8:45:00 AM...10...........5................6.......8:30:00 AM...15...........10
1........9:00:00 AM...30.........10................7.......8:55:00 AM...15...........10
2........9:40:00 AM...30.........10................8.......9:20:00 AM...15...........10
3......10:20:00 AM...30.........10................9.......9:45:00 AM...15...........10
4......11:00:00 AM...30.........10...............10.....10:10:00 AM...15...........10
lunch.11:40:00 AM..60...........................qualify
5......12:40:00 PM..30..........10................6.....10:35:00 AM...15...........10
6........1:20:00 PM..30..........10................7.....11:00:00 AM...15...........10
7........2:00:00 PM..30..........10................8.....11:25:00 AM...15...........10
8........2:40:00 PM..30..........10................9.....11:50:00 AM...15...........10
9........3:20:00 PM..30............0..............10.....12:15:00 PM...15...........10
end....3:50:00 PM..................................lunch.12:40:00 PM...60
.................................................. ...........6.......1:40:00 PM...30...........10
.................................................. ...........7.......2:20:00 PM...30...........10
.................................................. ...........8.......3:00:00 PM...30...........10
.................................................. ...........9.......3:40:00 PM...30...........10
.................................................. .........10.......4:20:00 PM...30...........0
.................................................. ........End.......4:50:00 PM


i have nothing against the miata folks (CONGRATS!!! to WDC member chris windsor for 1st place SSM at the ARRC), but it does look like a conspiracy to us poor open wheel folks who have 1 rep for FA/FC/FM/FS/FSCCA/F100 etc and the miata folks have two, 1 for sm and one for ssm (based on car counts of course, but hey, a whole rep for a change of intake and exhaust? (whatever the changes actually are)).

i no more advocate doing away with SSM as a regional class because they are really so close to being a nationally recognized SM class and can convert to SM than do i agree with having to run my FSCCA as an FA for regionals due to lack of car counts, but some things just have to happen.

over on the SM site discussion (link earlier in this thread) a comment was us excluded class cars all have national standing and can get our racing in by going to Nationals. well, the same could be said for all the other entrants here in MARRS that are national class... go to Nationals and leave the regional races to non-national class cars only.... no wait, you have to go to enough regionals first to get a national license, and hey, some people do not have the budget and time to go to nationals.

[Michael Rand]

I keep waiting to hear [read] from any of the FF guys who ran in the heyday when 60 plus cars would show up at Lime Rock and 20 plus would go home having non-qualified.
There were times when the region running the event would actually schedule, or manage to squeeze in, a non-qualifiers consi so they would get at least a 10 lapper.
What is so wrong with that scenario for oversubscribed race groups ? Where is it written, or even spoken, that everyone deserves a race ? Seems ike a very good incentive to improve yourself.
Of course the exact same thing is going on with the Miata group as once happened in FF. To many cars, desperate driving, constant cautions and red flags and huge disruption to the schedule. The solution then was to always schedule the troublemakers right before lunch and at the end of the day so they didn't ruin others track time. Hmmmmm.... sounds like a plan.
I certainly don't recall any of this junk going on then, if you weren't fast enough you went home. Just like the post about short track oval racing says, get it together or get it on the trailer.

[Stan Clayton]

Well said, Mike. I continue to be astounded at the monumental arrogance of some of the Miata guys. They act as if their numbers justify this rape of the Club. I guess they are too new to understand that their entry numbers were routinely exceeded throughout the 90's by SRF, and that throughout the 70's FF had annual totals 30% to 50% above SM numbers.

Over the past 35+ years, FF has racked up some 45,000 National entries, and averaged over 2000 per year throughout the 70's. FV has totaled over 40,000 since 1964. SR/SRF has added another 25,000 or so since the mid-80s. SM has 1630 so far...

Stan

[Andy Chu]

There seem to be some clearification needed. The issue here is not about car numbers and car counts. It is about throwing weight around that the car counts support.

The main issue is that the IT AND the SM, SSM guys feel their QUALITY of racing is suffering. That they have to cram all their fender cars into groups when the winged goup is under-subscribed. They want flexibility to move classes within their groups as needed.

To me, this is like the guy who moves in next to the airport and then lobbies to close the airport because of noise. They knew what they were getting into when they bought their cars.

The ONLY "comprimise" they will make is to put the winged cars in with the FV group.
It's their club, why should they comprimise?? Is the mentality.

Think we had annimosity in the paddock before with the parking? Wait until next year...

[R. Pare]

I keep waiting to hear [read] from any of the FF guys who ran in the heyday when 60 plus cars would show up at Lime Rock and 20 plus would go home having non-qualified.

LRP used to be that way in FF even in regionals on occasion, and NEVER did anyone consider dropping other classes because of that issue.

[KAMcDonald]

The main issue is that the IT AND the SM, SSM guys feel their QUALITY of racing is suffering. That they have to cram all their fender cars into groups when the winged group is under-subscribed. They want flexibility to move classes within their groups as needed.

this might be an issue for some of the ITx groups that are mixed in together and looking for a smaller grouping, but SM and SSM already have separate run groups so the mixing and matching proposed does not change their time or quantity of cars on track at all.

of course, SM and SSM might be angling for another miata group (dark painted SM, light painted SM, SSM) as their numbers increase and cannot fit all the entrants on the track due to hard count limitations.....

if it is all about voting reps for class, maybe i should become the FA rep, we get one for FS and FM and we can reverse the vote.

if we do in fact get a national FSCCA class for 2007, i will be running NE nationals, but as this was my first year racing i need lots more track time to get competitive and was planning on doing the full MARRS series for 2007 as well. if this ban stays in effect, will have to look into changing region of record. makes no sense to be a WDC member when they won't let me race.