Enclosed trailer info wanted

[Tom Duncan]

I am considering getting a small (16'-20') enclosed trailer for next season to carry (hopefully) a new FF or perhaps my current PRS CF. There seem to be many manufacturers and many options. All the trailers I have looked at in the paddock appear to be of good quality. Any opinions on brands/features/things to avoid?

My tow vehicle is a 2005 Chevy Astro van.

Thanks in advance

Tom Duncan
#27 CF PRS-RH02e
SFR-SCCA

[Brian]

With an Astro van, stay light. The tow ratings on that vehicle are optimistic but it will live just fine as long as you keep it light. I would look at 16', 7' wide maximum, and consider an aluminium chassis type. I would try to keep over all weight below 4500#. Definitely dual axles and brakes on all wheels. WD hitch with sway control. Prodigy brake controller.

[racer27]

A 16' requires creative packing, in particuliar with a winged car. For an FF not an issue. Best Compromise would be an 18', but that would be beyond capicity of your tow vech, unless you spend $$$ and go Aliumiumn. Don't even consider single Axle... Our Full size Dodge Van (Conversion) with 318CID Mopar & Tow Package was Challanged pulling a 16" p some of the PA and NYS Hills. It had over 100K Miles, but still reasonably Stout.

THe Prodogy brake controlers, IMHO are the best by far. The Straight Line dual cam WD/Sway Combo http://www.drawtite-hitches.com/WD/d..._line.htmlcost is effective and compact as it stays attached to the trailer. WD and Sway become much more important if yu go wiht a narrow track, shorter wheelbase vech, such as yours.

[RoadHazard]

Tom-

Just like chassis setup, it's all about compromises. You want a light trailer so you're not hauling dead weight but light trailers cost more. Aluminum construction is more expensive than steel construction, but lighter. Aero also makes a difference, so pointy noses are an advantage when towing, but cut into storage space (and cost more). For the size you're looking at, I think they'll all have dual axles with brakes on one axle.

A flop-down loading ramp (beaver tail) is obviously a necessity, and a side door is another real bonus. Even with the loading ramp you'll have to get creative with additional ramps and blocks because FF has such low ride height. If I tilt my trailer just right, prop up the beaver tail, and add some aluminum ramps I can just get the car in/out of the trailer without bottoming.

I prefer trailers with the wheels "inside" the footprint of the trailer because it's easier for me to estimate the width of the thing while hauling it down the road. My trailer's only 16' long inside and I've got enough room for everything I'd ever want at the track (with some stuff in the back of the tow vehicle). Weight, not space, is the limiting factor for me. I'd buy a lighter trailer before I'd get a bigger one, but that's just me.

A weight-distributing (WD) hitch is an aftermarket piece you'll want to buy after you get the trailer. Cuts way down on the scary tank-slapper moments driving up to Thunderhill!

[Tim FF19]

FYI, WD hitches will not work with all pointy nose trailers. I currently have a 24' trailer but used a 20' for 15 years and kept it pretty full. A 16' will be pretty tight but doable if you put some stuff in the Astro. I currently have a Pace and I like it better than my Haulmark but not a huge difference. Since you are not using a big tow vehicle keep an eye on the height of the trailer too. Again, compromises - usable space vs wind resistance. Beaver tail is a must but if you have the budget, get 2 transport wheels (4 is even better), you will never regret it. After 20+ years of using ramps, blocks, friends etc, I got a set of transport wheels and felt like a dummy for waiting so long. I can now load the car easily by myself in some pretty crummy locations. Just make sure the car doesn't roll away when you turn your head!

The Prodogy brake controlers are the best and don't cost much more, don't scrimp here.

Aluminum trailer if you can afford it but it is pretty $$$$.

[Roux]

Finishing first season with enclosed trailer. IN LOVE! 7' - 16' long with extra long tongue. Typical steel frame. 2600# empty. Royale CF nd 3 extra sets of wheels, all 4 corners spares, tools etc. fit great. 7-14 would be a bit tight. Don't mind the protruding wheels and mudguards. Must say the 6 cylinder Silverado is not amused with steep hills, but that's the trucks fault. I paid $3K used, but it was in mint condition. First thing was a couple of coats of polyurethane on the plywood. The stuff you use for hardwood floors at home. Keeps the stains from setting in on the floor and makes the walls look like furniture.

[tamnoz]

Tom
My father purchased an all Aluminum trailer from EandJ trailers in Canada this Spring.My dads was 15'x102" wide 5'5" tall with a slant nose tandem 2000lb axles w/brakes for $5800 and change.It wieghts approx. 1550lbs.I'm getting ready shortly to order a22'x102" 6'6" tall with a Vee nose from same company.They are located about 1 1/2 hrs North of Niagra Falls.
Jim

[Steve Demeter]

One thing for sure, whatever you buy will very quickly become not big enough.

I would strongly suggest getting at least a full size van with a V-8.

I use a 1990 Chev 3/4 ton conversion van, got it for $1600 and is is very nice inside and out.

I have a 24' Wells with a FC and every spare I can get in.

I still get 10mpg towing and I have power to not slow down too much up the long steep hills.

Paid $2200 for the trailer with a winch, roll out awning and nice workbench.

There are bargains out there if you look.

Have a friend who about 5 years ago bougth a 18' enclosed trailer to replace the open one he was using. He had a Chevy Astro van and going to the first race with the new rig he got about 10 miles down the highway and it scared him so bad he thought something had broken in the Van and went home. It was simply the fact that the trailer was so large and weighty in comparison to the van that it was about uncontrollable.

Just my 2 cents.

[-pru-]

Given the smaller tow vehicle, I agree that a "E&J" (http://www.eandj.on.ca/) type trailer (small and light) is the way to go. Here's a is a photo of a custom "Formula Car" E&J:

[Tom Valet]

Tom,

The two main concerns you will have with buying a trailer are diametrically opposed: size and weight. You will always want a bigger trailer, but as you get bigger and bigger weight becomes an issue. The bigger and heavier the trailer, the bigger and heavier the tow vehicle you will need both from a safety perspective and towing performance.

Finding the right balance requires that you look at the way the trailer will be used and what type of tow vehicle you have. Are you going to be making long trips or only race locally? Going up and down lots of hills? Can you live with 7 mpg? As others have said, you will always want a bigger trailer no matter what size you buy, but do you alaso want to have to go out and buy a diesel dually after 6 months of over-stressing your small V8?

For what it's worth to you, we started racing this year. I picked up our car in South Carolina, driving down from NY with a friends 18 foot steel Haulmark. With a Ford F-150 V-6 we got 7 mpg and the engine strained all the way there and back. After that experience, I bought an aluminum 7 x 16 Thule with an aero nose. It weighs about half what the steel trailer weighed. However, you will pay more (much more) for an all aluminum trailer (but it will hold its value better). Our FF fits inside and leaves room for spares and so forth, but it is tight and there is no "extra" room. I already wish I had bought a bigger trailer, but this thing sits on my driveway and already looks huge and out of place. The V6 pickup is still not happy on hills , but mileage went up to 11 mpg (normal is 15 highway). Next spring I will be trading it in for a V8, a deisel if I can find one cheap enough.

Hope that helps a little at least.

Take care.

Tom

[Modo]

For what its worth - can fit 83 Reynard FC and 98 Tatuus FC in there albeit one at a time -- open trailer custom designed for balance - can wheel car around on trailer by hand when it was still an open trailer - Enclosed with .080 aluminum sheet and mig welded all around for homogenous strength - .080 sheet takes on a plate quality so no dings
If I did it again would make it a little longer and go full head height....ouch!

trailer weight 900-1000lbs w/top...with car and rains and stuff tow at 2300lbs... other equipment in tow vehicle.... open trailer built to my size spec by Trailer Source - Atlanta, GA $1200 in 1991

15.5 mpg for Town and Country 6 cyl
19.5-20 mpg 5 speed TPI 305 Camaro

makes swinging out to Laguna Seca from DC doable!!

[ChrisInAtlanta]

I agree on the enclosed trailer concept. I feel much safer when I have to park it at a motel overnight, and suspect I get less tickets as a result.

I have a low height trailer - 6 feet tall - which I believe tows easier and is less affected by sidewinds. You'll bang your head a couple of times before you remember. Still room for a set of rains up front high.

I have low-ish ride height on the car (1.25"). Beaver tail, fold out door, then second fold out leaf. I built two ramps inside out of 2x10's, so the car just continues to ride up at the same angle, and do not need to tilt the trailer to get the car on/off.

I don't believe in winches for open wheeled cars. You can usually find someone to help roll the rear tires to get the car up on the trailer. In fact, you can usually find two folks to do it, and you just supervise. . .

Pace Legend, but smaller than you are looking for.

Two axles, of course, for a car of any value. Brakes (and controller) if you are towing over 3,500 pounds or so. Some states mandate it, but usually have an escape clause for trailers made in another state. Spare tire, plus a place to put it THAT YOU CAN GET TO WITHOUT ROLLING THE CAR OUT OF THE TRAILER.

Lock to hold the receiver to the hitch, and another the trailer to the ball. Hard to keep the ball on the hitch without spot welds, which complicates changing it (as you will have to do). VERY nice locking guard to keep someone from towing your baby away when it is not attached to the truck.

VERY strong straps rated for very high weight - to save the car in case the trailer rolls. And strong attachment points. My car's rear tires like to walk one way or the other while driving, so I strap the rear frame to either side of the trailer with light straps.

[Tom Duncan]

Thanks everybody for the input, and please keep it coming. I am learning a lot.

Tom Duncan

[PCalhoun]

To add to what others have said, a 7x16 is about the smallest you can get away w/ to haul a 1600 and some equipment. This fits the car perfectly w/ eight wheels/tires across the front wall, plus a floor jack. An in floor spare tire compartment is another great loaction for additional storage. The attached trailer was my personal trailer built by Pace American and is a Conquest 7x16 w/ 12" reduced height. This results in a 5' interior height, which minimizes frontal area and the hole which must be punched in the air. To further reduce the height and aid car loading add 22-1/2 deg upstart axles to lower the floor & a beavertail. There are also options now a days to help w/ loading low ride height cars, which do not involve wood or towing wheels. A Legacy motorcycle trailer would be similair in concept to the above in the Pace line-up.

Towing an enclosed trailer w/ an Astro will be a challenge, but not impossible, just don't plan on many mountain passes! But, as others have said a 1/2 ton p/u or van is really more suitable for the job and once you get over 22/24' you should really think 3/4 ton.

If I can be of assistance feel free to e-mail me.

Peter Calhoun
Marketing Manager
Pace American, Inc.
pcalhoun at paceamerican.com

[DrJim]

Peter,
What is the height of the shown trailer? In other words, what is the minimum car port height it can pass under?

[Garey Guzman]

Tom,
Personally, I would suggest getting a stronger tow vehicle before spending a bunch of cash on a smallish enclosed trailer. Although it's nicer to have all your stuff in an enclosed trailer, inside heights less than 6' make it difficult to sell.

I won't belabor the point. I just want to point out how happy I am to tow with my F350 diesel. This truck has suddenly become my daily driver and although it's a crew cab long bed, I still get 18.5-19 mpg going to and from work (no freeway). I get about 12 towing my 24' box trailer with both FF's in it and a ton of spares. Getting the diesel cost a bit more up front but I'm glad to have it. If you want to get a Nissan Titan (up to 9400 towing capacity), I can get you an employee "Friends" discount.

[PCalhoun]

Dr Jim,
The Pace Conquest 7x16 shown w/ 12" reduced height & upstart axles will have an approx. overall height of 6'6". Overall width w/ widetrack axles is 102".

Peter Calhoun

[Joe Riley]

Tom
You

[Joe Riley]

Tom
You might want to talk to Bill Hetzel if he's at the next race. He has a 18' featherlight and he says it tows like it's not even there.
Congratulations

[Joe Riley]

Tom
You might want to talk to Bill Hetzel if he's at the next race. He has a 18' featherlight and he says it tows like it's not even there.
Congratulations again on the championship and the lap records.
Joe

[Eric Cruz]

Joe,
You shouldn't be drinking in the middle of the day....think of your students and your patients, for God's sake.

Best regards,
Eric

[Joe911]

Hey Eric - I leave the drinking to my students. They tell me they are good at it!
Best regards, Joe Riley

PS - don't tell my wife I have another life. It is strange to find another Joe Riley with a CF as well. Hey Joe - hope the Crossle is running great and that you are racing often.

[DrJim]

Thanks Peter.

[Tom Duncan]

...is I should be looking for an 18' (maybe a 16') aluminum trailer that was designed (and rated) for cargo, rather than a car hauler. Preferably with a pointed nose for slightly better aero and more storage space inside. The race car weighs 900 pounds, and all the crap that gets loaded into the trailer probably weighs another 600 pounds (though I should check that some time...I bet my toolbox weighs 80 pounds), so I would be looking at a load of 1500 pounds. That is quite a bit less than the average 'car' so I think the cargo type would work. I suspect they commonly have double doors rather than the drop door though.

I have seen such trailers listed at 2000 pounds or less, making the total load of around 3500 pounds.

I checked my trailer hitch and it says it is rated at 3500 pounds, right on the limit. Is there a stronger hitch for the Astro?

My current transport is a very old "Penny" type open trailer. Any idea what one of these weighs? I am guessing around 1000 pounds. The Astro tows this rig with no problems or drama with the all up load weight of around 2500 pounds.

My feeling now is that if I had to give up the Astro (for a bigger tow vehicle) for the sake of an enclosed trailer, or just get a new open trailer and keep the Astro, I would go for the latter. I have a nice camping gig going with the Astro, and it serves perfectly when I transport goods to and from my camera shows, as well as handles large items well.

Having done some Google searches on 'enclosed trailers' it has become clear that there are bunches of manufacturers, with many seeming to be regional. For some reason Georgia seems to have a lot. In any event, I think it will come down more to the individual build qualilty and features than to brand.

Thanks for your input.

Tom Duncan

[Tom Duncan]

[This is for the Joe Riley in California, who now drives a VD FC, having abandoned us in Group 4 (FF, CF, FV, F5)]

Hi Joe.

I have spoken to Bill Hetzel, he gave me a lot of good advice. I will not be racing at the next race at Laguna, but I will be down there Friday morning to look at trailers and say hello.

Thanks for the congrats on the last race, it really was a dream weekend. I suspect the track will get to be at least one second or more quicker once it rubbers in, which it should be by the 28th.

Tom

[Brian]

According to the Reese product page at www.reeseprod.com, there are several hitches available that have a maximum capacity of 3500 pounds weight carrying, and up to 6000 pounds with weight distributing bars. Note that at least one of the hitches states that for the Astro van it is NOT rated for WD use - but the top of the line hitches are rated. I have friends towing what you want with an Astro van very happily, so I have no doubt that you'll be just fine as long as you keep the overall load in reason. FWIW I estimate 1500 pounds of tools spares and stuff - just becuase you have room for two sets of extra wheels, a spare engine and so on, doesn't mean it's a good idea every time...

cheers, Brian

[Eric Cruz]

Oops. Sorry about the slanderous post, Joe. Guess I'd better get back to MY drink, now...it is past 10 AM Eastern Confederate time, after all...

Best regards,
Eric

[Tom Duncan]

Does anyone out there actually use an aluminum enclosed cargo trailer for transporting a race car? They seem to be few and far between. I was wondering if they hold up OK and what some good brands might be. Any special problems with an all aluminum trailer? An aluminum 16'-18' seems like the way to go for me, if they work.

Thanks for your support Brian about the Astro. Any idea what kind of weight your friends tow and what brand hitches they use?

Thanks

Tom Duncan

[Tom Valet]

Tom,

I am using a Thule all aluminum cargo trailer 7x16 to haul my FF and equipment. It was originally designed as a snowmobile/cargo trailer by CargoPro and then Thule bought them out, or so I was told. The trailer weighs 1700 pounds. It has an aero nose. The rear opening is just under 72 inches, and it has a ramp door and a side door.

A picture is here: http://www.thuletrailers.com/cargopro.asp

Its specs are here: http://www.thuletrailers.com/motorcy...p?ProductID=76

They also make larger sizes, but only in the wider models and the weight goes up a bit.

The only downside that I know of with aluminum trailers is the cost, but you will save considerable money on fuel and they hold their value very well.

HTH

Tom V

[Frank C]

I switched from a very small open trailer to a 16 x 7 Pace CargoSport with dimensions like Peter's, but with full height and regular axle. My DB1 fits as his picture shows. Note that his trailer, like mine, has the wider axle so that the floor is flat with no wheel intrusions. I use 2x8s screwed to the ramp door and floor to gain clearance for loading. My '98 F150 with 4.6 V8 (rated at 7000 lbs) pulled the trailer all right, but has had to work very hard at times. Coming back across Kansas from MAM at the end of July, I encountered very strong (20-30 mph) headwinds, and the truck just couldn't pull at the speed limit without real abuse. It did have almost 139,000 miles on it. The F250 with 5.4 V8 that has replaced the old truck does much better. It is not just the engine, but an extra gear in the transmission that helps. I think that the Astrovan is problematic and that the weight saving of an aluminum trailer is going to be much less cost effective than a reduced height for less drag. I would get a bigger vehicle.
- Frank C

[PCalhoun]

Aluminum framed trailers do have some distinct advantages over steel frames, #1 being weight. All else being equal the equivalent aluminum framed trailer will be 20% lighter. This will definetly help w/ fuel mileage for times when gas is over $3/gal, as it was this past summer.

Pace American's Silver Arrow model is our full aluminum trailer. This would include frame, wall & hat posts, roof bows, and exterior skin. In addition to the weight savings, obviously aluminum provides superior corrosion protection.

I currently tow a 8.5x20 Silver Arrow w/ 6" reduced height, for a 6' interior, which weighs only 500 punds more than the steel framed 7x16 previously posted. We have also built 7w Silver Arrows, which include a v-nose, to haul FF1600's and they work very well.

Aluminum definetly offers some advantages and is a growing market segment. There is a cost associatted w/ this however, as the raw materials to build the trailer are significantly more expensive. That said a quality built aluminum trailer, by a brand name manufacturer will hold its value very well.

Peter Calhoun
Pace American, Inc.

[AJWALKER]

I purchased a Alum- V nosed trailer as my first (and last) enclosed trailer. It is 14ft plus the v-nose(2.5 ft), tandem axle with rear ramp door. I tow with a trailer package equipment Dodge Quad Cab with 4.7 V8. I do most of the towing with overdrive dis-engaged. This set up does not allow for alot of extras (no golf cart), but it is great for " I'm just a regional guy." The biggest issues I found were the V nose area is great for a tool box, tire rack and kinds of stuff but it kills the tonque weight. My solution was E-track on the walls in the back for a cross trailer tire rack and storage shelf. I even put in a over the car bed for those late arrivals. I try to not remove the car between races to do maintaince and gear box changes, I put the body work outside and have plenty of room. I would be happy to provide pictures for a better perspective.

[Bill Hetzel]

My Featherlite is 6 years old and looks like it it's brand new. Up here in the high desert, it dosen't get wet very often but has been totally covered in snow acouple of times.
It's 18 ft and measures 76 inches inside. The ramp door is narrower. But, The Crossle goes right in and I've loaded one of our FSCCA cars in with no problems ( the front tires clear the door with a wopping 1/4 inch on each side).
The trailer weighs 1,700 empty. About 3,100 loaded.
This is the best towing trailer I've ever pulled. No weight distributing hitch, no sway bar. It dosen't move around at all when passing a tractor trailer.
I'm pulling it with a 2000 Chev Silverado 1/2 ton 2WD, 5.3 liter with 100,000 mi. I have to cross an 8,000 ft. mountain to get to the tracks and I'm still getting 14.5 mpg.