CRB wants input on FF spec tires

[Mark Walthew]

Page 51 of the October Fast Track has the following item.

"FF - The CRB invites the FF community to comment on mandating spec tires for the class."

This is your chance to voice your opinion.

Feel free to plagiarize anything I wrote on a prior thread concerning this topic.
link
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18526


Here is a link to the proper page on the SCCA site to submit a letter to the CRB.
http://www.scca.org/Club/Index.asp?r...ce=crb-process

Mr Gomberg if I am wrong on any of this please correct me.

Thank you,

Mark Walthew

[Professor]

Hello everyone. Have people been writing in with their ideas? Here's what I have submitted to the SCCA BOD and CRB (and now also our local region as well, since they are formulating a tire rule too!):

"We" are a formula class, and as such I believe that a "Tire Formula" would serve the class well -- a "spec" tire would not. What do I mean by a "tire formula"? A plan and method to ensure that the most tires possible are available which provide cost effective life cycles and increased racing possibilities. One again, building off the successful strengths of other racing series (Legends, circle tracks, etc. for different parts of the plan) propose a list of hard slick tires that meet a minimum requirement for durability, cost, availability, etc. This provides:

a) Alternatives to a single manufacturer (competition in design and pricing; better availability),
b) Repeatable results in racing, rules compliance, and tire management while still retaining a choice,
c) Reduced costs with improving competition

Here is an example of the items that might be included in a FF "Tire Formula" - all subject to review and discussion:

"Each vehicle will exclusively use a total of four of any combination of tires from the approved list below, and/or DOT approved tires with a wear rating of 300 or higher. No tires may be siped (razor cut) or recapped. Non-DOT tires must remain ungrooved, but may be shaved, radiused, camber cut or otherwise reshaped as long as the surface remains substantially smooth and ungrooved. Only DOT tires may be treaded (and therefore can be used as rain tires if desired), may be unshaved or shaved or shaped in any manner and to any tread depth including zero, and may also be included in any combination with other approved tires at any time. Tire warmers and any other means of artificially warming tires are prohibited. All tires must remain free of any non-manufacturing or tire-mounting coatings, treatments, softeners, protectants and any other chemicals. Any/All tires used may be tested at any time during a sanctioned race weekend authorized time period, and must meet a minimum Shore Durometer scale "A" hardness measurement of 58 or higher. The manager of regional technical services will maintain standards and records to ensure that the durometer is properly calibrated and that personnel are properly trained and available to conduct these measurements.

The allowed tires (subject to review) are: Goodyear 600 tires, and/or Hoosier R60 tires, and/or American Racer xxxxx tires, and/or "Manufacturer D" xxxxx tires. Any Driver or Entrant may petition for tires to be either included or excluded from this list."

Enjoy!

Best regards,
Ron Heffner
SCCA# 123785
(510) 347-4629

[Joefisherff]

I vote to get rid of the cantilever design and go with the same rim width as FC so we can get access to some new technology/radials/etc.. If you had the same tire rule across two (4 counting the club classes) you would have sufficient volume for a manufacturer to build a spec tire that met specific wear requirements and maintained a certain level over X heat cycles. It can be done, I talked to a guy that did it for the Jim Russell series.

[Mark Walthew]

My proposal was an effort to get more Formula Fords on the track. IMHO making everyone's wheels obsolete is not a step in that direction.

[Joefisherff]

If your plan is to get more cars on the track you have to look for a long term solution not a stop gap measure. The current design of the FF tires makes them expensive to make and limits the capability to introduce newer technologies. If you move to the wider rim only the rears would need to be replaced and there are FC wheels for sale. Granted it may cost a little in the short term but hopefully by moving to a tire that is more readily available and in greater demand the on-going cost will more than make up for it. That seems to be the problem with everyone wanting to increase participation in FF - no one wants to even consider any alternative that may cost them money or make anything they have obsolete.

[racer27]

I think Joe's suggestion has some merit. I'd like to add to that:

1. If you have have 3 piece modular wheels, you may not have to replace the full rear wheel. It may be possible that you only need to change the Inner and Outter halves.

2. These parts are unfortunutly routinely changed anyway as they get damaged (On track or Mounting).

3. A switch to a more convential tire, would make tire mounting much easier. As it is now, in my area only a few local shops are able to mount and balance these tires withtout damaging the rims.

Does anyone know, how much less expensive a convential design tire is over a canterliver designed tire?


Unfortunaly there is some downside... some cars may have clearance/fittment issues if a differant rim is intoduced. Those guys with one piece wheels may end up wiht a front/rear style mis-match.

[Greg Mercurio]

The 5.5" wheel rule is a carryover from ancient times when these great cars were running tall race tires. Moving from 5.5 to 6 and 8's like FC gives exactly no increase in contact patch.

This is one rule that really needs to change.

[Joefisherff]

Yeah I was surprised when someone posted that the width of our current rears and the rears on the FC were the same, so I took the tape measure out and confirmed it. The ad hoc committee has talked to a number of tire manufacturers and they did voice that making the cantilevered tire is much more difficult and precludes the introduction of a radial or other advances in tire design. To Racer27's point there may be some interference issues with the backspacing on rims etc., that would require some thought but I think if we start looking at a standard tire we should really think about this in the not-to-distant future.

I didn't even factor in the difficulty in mounting them, I've had 3 wheels ruined by tire guys trying to break the beads and bending the rim in the process, that would make mounting the tires yourself a possible money saver as well.

[Scott Hanba]

If you allowed the 6/8" rims as a maximum, one could run 5.5 on the front and only buy new rims for the rears as a compromise.

[D.T. Benner]

A Great Idea.. ..but would not work with a "Spec" tire.

[Joefisherff]

I guess I don't understand why the rim width would affect the use of a spec tire?

[KOTR17]

I don't see a problem with keeping the 5.5" wheel rule and having a spec tire! As long as everyone has to run the same tire what would be the issue? Just don't change the wheel rule now, I for one would be very upset if there was no sunset date on a wheel rule change. At $350.00 - $450.00 a wheel, this is not an easy or quick rule to change IMHO.

Tony

[Glenn Kobza]

so here we go again reinventing the wheel/tire again
my brother and i have been racing these cars since the 70's when we were told we COULD NOT switch our elden from TALL fronts, we did, lowered the front of the car,
and then just went ahead and raced the darn thing!
I do not understand what the big deal is, we have raced on SPEC TIRES with the RCCA/FRCCA
SINCE THE MID 90'S, first HOOSIERS now AMERICAN RACERS, sometimes back to back on the same day, with no changes to the car other than driver and tires, and we are podium competetive with vastly different driving styles (he is precise and tidy, I tend to look like I learned to drive in the snow in and old VW) [I did] as far as wheels go we miss our old one pcs Minilites, I smote the wall in 1 at Pocono in 1979 with one [flat in 4th] and realigned the car and raced the next event (new nose and recored rad)
my point is don't get crazy here, and obsolete all the exsisting wheels in the kingdom to save on 1 to 2 sets of tires per year (the average FF racer DOES NOT race more than 6 times a year) if you want a spec tire fine pick one without speding $2,000 on new wheels!
By the way I would invite you guys to run with us JUST ONCE! I did in 1993 and I have never gone back, there are even some of us who share a car and run 1 1/2 to 2 hours each each day. Now that is cost effective racing!