One Piece Camera/Recorder...

[-pru-]

For $100, it looks promising:

http://www.redenvelope.com/re/gifts/...cefedfgfdfmh.0

Comments?

[Nicholas Belling]

I would have to say at best it might be good for some fun or some hard to watch data analysis because its so disposable if it breaks.

But I played around with a similar camera called the tony hawk cam for fun and found that really the resolution was so poor that for in car video playback its just simply put not worth it.

but I had fun watching suspension travel up close or mounted on a outboard a-arm.

In my opinon the easiest to aquire and decent quality way to get video is a simple sony dv camera used from ebay 100 - 200 dollars. a bullet cam for 100 - 200 depending on quality and with a built in mic possibly. a remote Lanc trigger switch and then just some routed cables to either your nosebox or under your legs and have your camera in a mini soft beer cooler bag or lunch bag. When videos our made just download them into your pc before like me you have 100+ mini dv tapes all over the place.. ARgghh..

Something I am going to experiment with in the coming months is an archos 604 player/mpeg4 / divx recorder. its a slim handheld device with an lcd and 40 - 60 gigs built in hard drive that might take the g's of the car. I will then use a bullet cam. remote mic maybe left and right mics one exteror mic for road noise and one ill mount in my helmet so I can give verbal over film commentary about what I am feeling in the car or want to improve on... the only thing with the artchos device is you need to do some electric work to make a remote trigger switch.. shouldnt be to hard....

[turnbaugh]

You could try a Neuros digital video recorder. We have hooked it up with a bullet cam and the picture quality is very good. We haven't tried it in the car yet but it is all flash memory based so there is no disk or tape to worry about. Is is small also.

[turnbaugh]

Also chasecam.com has a fully digital recorder box.

[Professor]

Here's another example... the "Digital Blue Tony Hawk Helmet Camera" for $60 at Circuit City. See it at: http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ...&cm_keycode=92

These types of cameras never have a good enough frame rate though - usually only 10 to 15 fps.

[AJWALKER]

I tried a 20 GIG Archos unit for a couple of years. I was never able to get a in-car recording. the unit always crashed. I tried all kinds of soft mounts, including velcro'd to the drivers leg.
The lack of a Lanc type controler made it a real pain to setup. It now serves as a MP3 player, data storage, and video to MP4 converter. I purchased a Cannon DV camera on EBay that was Lanc compatable and use a compact single chip camera unit from super ciruits. The only issue that is still not perfect is sound, the line in high gain spy mic is prone to saturation. I've constructed a low level mic to line level output unit with a gain control, it is currently untested though. Now that the car is repaired and back in use I will get some footage at the Sept Glen 2day.

[jasonwiener]

The camera looks good, but the body is super fragile and there's almost NO shake-resistence in the solid-state logic. Bought one, ran it on a Moto125 Shifter and got nothing by vibration scanlines through the video. Mounted it on an F2000. Vibration killed it....LITERALLY. I'm using the Panasonic D-Snap stuff now. MUCH better. There's video on my myspace and YouTube pages.

http://www.youtube.com/jasonwiener
http://www.myspace.com/jasonwiener

[Keith Carter]

Here's another example... the "Digital Blue Tony Hawk Helmet Camera" for $60 at Circuit City. See it at: http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=157001&WT.mc_n=92&WT.mc_t=U&c m_ven=COMPARISON%20SHOPPING&cm_cat=NEXTAG&cm_pla=D ATAFEED->PRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=92

These types of cameras never have a good enough frame rate though - usually only 10 to 15 fps.

I bought it, tried it and it sucks... No matter how large of a card you have in it, it only will record up to 15 minute segments. Not a big deal, I thought, as it will at least get SOME footage... Wrong. I'm guessing it doesn't stand up to the vibrations very well. Maybe if I mounted it to my helmet it would have more of a cushion than just strapping it to the frame. I haven't gotten a decent clip of race footage yet. The most I got was a pace lap before it shut off.

[formulasuper]

Sean O. tried the helmet mounting at Rd Atl this summer & the video was so jerky it almost gave us motion sickness! Probably works ok while riding a motorcycle since the rider is independant of the vehicle, not strapped in tight like in our cars.

[racer27]

Real (Used) Digitial Video Camcorders are getting cheap enough E-Bay. It does not make alot of sense to experiment with solutions that may not work. We've had no issues with a Sony DV Camera (3 yrs now). It writes 60 min to cheap tape, gets turned on with a LANC. Easy, reliable, still usable for taking Family Movies.

Downside, units tend to be a little large. In particular with the monster 11 hr battery we run (Well worth the expense, just shop around on-line and make sure u get a third party battery at a much lower cost).

To make things more convient, this season my crew chief hard wired the remote camera and Mic (Jones Cam) so it is on with the Ign system. No no need to fuss with AA batteries.

Ohh, we went to try helment mounting once, no longer allowed by the sactioning body... They made us take it off.

[logager]

Check out this unit.

http://www.skymall.com/shopping/deta...175502&c=10280

Mine will be here next week. We are going to try it at MSR with the 250 superkart.



Lyle

[Keith Carter]

That looks a lot like the Tony Hawk unit. I hope you have better success with it.

[Richard Hybels]

AJWALKER said "I purchased a Cannon DV camera on EBay that was Lanc compatable and use a compact single chip camera unit from super ciruits. The only issue that is still not perfect is sound, the line in high gain spy mic is prone to saturation."

My experience exactly and the video is so damn good I don't know why anybody would want to fool with anything else.
The Canon zr40 is what I use. $150 on ebay. I don't know how to "consruct low level mic to line level output unit with a gain control," as AJ did so if anybody knows of a mic that works please advise

[Bill Kincaid]

The mic I use is a tiny 12V line level unit, part #PA3, "MICRO PRE-AMP W/MIC" from www.supercircuits.com (~$20). However the latest remote camera I bought already includes a mic- it's from extremehelmetcams.com, model EXT- 480 (BTW this is an excellent camera, epoxy potted inside and with a nice sturdy enclosure). I've had pretty good luck with sound- place the mic somewhere sheltered, out of the air stream, and make sure the connections are secure all the way to the camcorder. You'll need a mono-to-stereo adapter Y cable (included in the EXT- 480 kit).

[AJWALKER]

http://www.vellemanusa.com/us/enu/pr...iew/?id=350480

It took about 1hr to complete the board and another hr to install in box. I tied it in with the 12v battery pack for the remote camera. It works well, I'm still searching for the best place to put the mic.

[racer27]

We found the best place for the mic to be someplace under the cowling, about a foot or so before the drivers knee (1/2 way between hip & knee). This allows you to be out of the wind, picks up all the engine nose and shifts (missed ones too) withtout overloading it (If you overlaod it you stop recording sound or stop recoding, period). That location also allows you to pick up dialog between driver and crew with engine idling or off.

We also wrapped a bit of lite foam around the mic and tied it off with a tie wrap. Mic with foam is slightly smaller then a golf ball. This allows you to tie the mic off to the frame, wihtout picing up nose transmitted they the solid structure.

On the FC, we found the wings are by far the noisyest sound picked up.

I one point, I plan on experimenting with moving the mic into the helmet, so I can record me talking to myself.

[Richard Hybels]

Bill Kincaid said "However the latest remote camera I bought already includes a mic- it's from extremehelmetcams.com, model EXT- 480"
That is a smokin deal!! Enclosure,mic, cables, battery pack and camera for $179.
I use the cars' 12v for cam and mic though.

[Bill Kincaid]

Yes, the battery pack is superfluous and you have to make a bracket to attach the enclosure to the roll bar- but still the best deal I've found. The picture quality is first rate and the camera has survived a fair amount of abuse so far (including a lift tow!).

[racer27]

Like Richard, to make things more convient, this season my crew chief hard wired the remote camera and Mic (Jones Cam) so it runs off the cars electricial system.

Those battery packs (rechargable) don't last long and we were always forgeting to recharge it, The Individual disposable batteries got consumed 8 at a time, a real hassle, and a saftey issue if the ever cam out of thier holster.

No we just make sure the can corder is charged (Every few events) and we feed it tapes. Shame tapes are limited to 60 min, we really need 75 min to capture timed session, Pole Sprint ant Main Race. I have several tapes where we run out of of tape before the checkard.

Also next year, I plan using hte TrackVision software to oaverlay the AIM data over the Video, so I don;t have to Mic in Lap times, RPM, Etc...

[Richard Hybels]

racer27 says: "Also next year, I plan using the TrackVision software to oaverlay the AIM data over the Video, so I don;t have to Mic in Lap times, RPM, Etc..."

That's a new one on me. Is there a link or soemthing? Is that how James did that screen with speed, rpm etc on his runoffs video that is elsewhere on Apex?

[racer27]

You ask, thou shall recieve....

http://www.trackvision.net/

Yes. it allows you to display graphical representations of your data over the video (RPM, MAP, G's, Laptime, Gears, MPH, Temps, ETC)

[Al Craighead]

Hey Guys,

Read the previous posts, but still a little confused. For a FF, what type of camcorder should I be looking at? Regular, mini DV, hard drive based? Anything vital it should have in the way of specs? I assume by the lipstick/bullet lens and mic separately. Obviously don't want to spend loads of cash. Thank in advance for any suggestions. BTW, going to want to not only watch vids on my tv, but my laptop as well, if that makes any difference.

Cheers,

[RoadHazard]

Al-

People seem to use all sorts of cameras and video gear in their cars. There's no one right answer. I use a normal Sony camcorder with 8mm tapes. Others use solid-state recorders. Others use little hard disk recorders (like an iPod for video). Some burn directly onto MiniDV. Everyone seems to be happy with their respective choices.

If I had it all to do over again with unlimited funds, I'd buy a solid-state recorder that takes flash memory cards (SD, CompactFlash, etc). They seem pretty indestructable and are very small. I'm worried my camcorder will shake itself to death one of these days, although it's held up well so far. I'm nervous about the reliability of disk-based recorders, although other drivers seem to like them. Just my personal bias.

Any recorder I've ever seen, regardless of medium, will let you play back the video on your TV. And most will also let you download the video into a computer. If you've got an older tape-based video camera (like mine) you may need to buy a video-capture card for your PC and "play" the tape for your PC to record. If you've got a newer video camera it might have a direct FireWire (IEEE-1394) interface to the computer.

In all the above cases, you'll want a separate "lipstick" camera and microphone, as you've discovered. Oh, and your recorder should have a LANC interface so you can turn it on and off remotely when the recorder itself is buried somewhere awkward inside the car.

For what it's worth, here's a four-minute highlights video from the aforementioned in-car camera.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...22322463&hl=en

[Al Craighead]

Thanks for the info Road Harzard.

Does anyone have any particularly models they'd reccomend for durability and vibration resistance, as that is likely one of the biggest problems. In addition what about lipstick/bullet camera's? You guys have any recommendations for picture quality and stone pebble resistance. Thanks in advance. Thinking will price stuff out soon, maybe even pick something up on Boxing Day if on sale.

Cheers,

[turnbaugh]

I have been continuing on the quest for a digital video recorder also. I am going to go try three units. Two are DVRs that I discovered on a Spy/PI gear website.

chasecam.com makes a nice one button DVR but there is no screen. If the quality of these PI units is good, this could be the solution.

http://www.pigear.com/store/cart.php...t_detail&p=166

http://www.pimall.com/nais/dvr6.html

The other one is an all in one unit.

http://www.antonline.com/p_Media+Pla...der_223224.htm

They all use Flash memory as the storage media so it should be immune to all but the most severe shock and vibration. According to the descriptions, bullet cams should plug in directly.

All three units are small enough that I plan to make a small cut-out in my bead seat (when it is done) to house the unit.

I will report on the results when I get to try them out.

[turnbaugh]

Chasecam.com also has a nice bulletcam. it has replaceable lens protectors.

[RobLav]

A great film RoadHazard. I used to live in Monterey.

[Bill Kincaid]

Does anyone have any particular models they'd recommend for durability and vibration resistance, as that is likely one of the biggest problems. In addition what about lipstick/bullet cameras?

I've had good luck with Canon ZR45 or 50 camcorders (a couple so far, in different cars). I buy them used on eBay for about $150- that way I won't feel too bad about destroying one, though that hasn't happened yet in more than two seasons of use. The ZR45 accepts remote input (from the bullet cam), supports LANC, and has proven to be remarkably sturdy. For the bullet cam I've been using the EXT 480 from www.extremehelmetcams.com- nice stout enclosure, internally potted cam, mic included, very good price ($179). I mount the bullet cam enclosure to the roll bar with a small rigid bracket that still allows adjustment- I can provide a photo if anybody is interested. Picture quality is great with this setup.

[turnbaugh]

Very nicely done video !

[Purple Frog]

As seen at PRI

Complete set up, ready to install: $849.00


www.motocam360.com

[AJWALKER]

New item for video recording. Has remote LANC control.
http://www.chasecam.com/recorders/pdr.htm

[roadrace27]

While these digital recorder systems seem like a good deal, keep in mind that the quality of your video depends on two things:

1) The resolution of your bullet cam
2) The resolution and frame rate that your recording device is capable of capturing.

To get "normal" quality TV type video you want 740 x 480 video at 30 frames per second.

Almost any mini DV camcorder can capture this type of video, just make sure it has the capability of accepting inputs from a bullet cam.

Most of the solid state "no moving parts" digital video recorders on the market right now CAN'T RECORD AT THIS LEVEL. They might get to 740 x 480 but then their frame rate drops to 20 fps and you get choppy video. Beware their claims (get it in writing), because many of them will claim 740 x 480 and 30 fps but when you call them and ask them in person you find out that you CAN'T get 740 x 480 AND 30 fps at the same time.

(By the way the best bullet cams right now actually only provide 560 lines of resolution, but at 30 fps it looks good on TV anyway.)

Once a DVR hits the consumer market that can record at this level, they will have my money.

Of course if you want HD video, then you might still have to wait a few years.

[Rick Kirchner]

Actually, TV video resolution is 525 x (approximately) 377. that's given a 6Mhz B&W baseband signal. The 525 is easy because the individualy horizontal lines define a "pixel". The 377 is an approximation given how many vertical lines one might be able to discern given the analog nature of the original signal, and the sampling required. The 560 referred to in the bullet cams probably includes the retrace.

BUT - the record modes are set in the recorder, and don't necessarily give you a higher frame rate if you have a relatively low-res source. it looks like they oversample the low-res and then cripple the frame rate.

[turnbaugh]

This looks interesting also.

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/dvr548.html

[TimW]

This looks interesting also.

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/dvr548.html

I think its being sold by a company long on geeks and short on lawyers. MegaPIMP?

Does not say what format its stores the video on the SD card. If its MP4, quality will not be very good; if its MP2, 1GB is gonna get you only half a national at a good bitrate.

Tim

[roadrace27]

Actually, TV video resolution is 525 x (approximately) 377. that's given a 6Mhz B&W baseband signal. The 525 is easy because the individualy horizontal lines define a "pixel". The 377 is an approximation given how many vertical lines one might be able to discern given the analog nature of the original signal, and the sampling required. The 560 referred to in the bullet cams probably includes the retrace.

BUT - the record modes are set in the recorder, and don't necessarily give you a higher frame rate if you have a relatively low-res source. it looks like they oversample the low-res and then cripple the frame rate.

Yep, the "560" bullet cams are actually 520 with the retrace.

The 740 x 480 at 30 fps number is what you want to shoot for when editing video on a computer. If you can produce video with this final output then you will be able to show it to people on a TV and it will look "normal".

Smaller resolutions will produce pixelation (such as when you view a small video on the internet and try to watch it full screen) and lower frame rates will give less than smooth motion or even choppy video all together.

At this point I think a 560 bullet cam hooked into a standard miniDV tape camcorder is both the best and most economical option. When they finally come out with a DVR that can capture color video at 740 x 480 and 30 fps for 60 minutes on a CF or SD card then there will be another option.

[TimW]

When they finally come out with a DVR that can capture color video at 740 x 480 and 30 fps for 60 minutes on a CF or SD card then there will be another option.

Are you sure its not 720x480 or 640x480 & 30 fps for 'normal' TV? 640 would be the right aspect ratio of 4:3 for standard definition TV, no?

And Panasonic has such a device, the SV-AV100, which has since been discontinued and replaced by the SDR-100. But the new model does not have an AV/IN port. The SV-AV100 is SD card based, I use a 2GB card on the 'Fine' setting which gives me 704x480@30fps in MPEG-2 interlaced for 44 minutes (according the stream info displayed in editing tools). If you can FAT32 format the cards from your mac/pc it will support 4GB cards for 88 minutes at the same setting. I think ChaseCam is another that does exactly this too.

[roadrace27]

Are you sure its not 720x480 or 640x480 & 30 fps for 'normal' TV? 640 would be the right aspect ratio of 4:3 for standard definition TV, no?

AVI files are 720 x 480 at 30 fps and MPEG is 704 x 576 according to my video editing software.

Both file types seem to be popular and work well when making video CDs or DVDs which I assume would be the intended use for most people, who would then play them on a 'normal' TV.

Any recording system that can achieve those numbers will provide a quality end product when you make those DVDs to hand out to all the sponsors hanging around SCCA regionals!!!

Anything less and you will either have to view it on a smaller window on your computer or suffer image degradation if watching it on a TV.

[Rick Kirchner]

All those numbers you see when you pick a resolution on your PC monitor control panel, like 640x480, etc, really don't mean much in this context. The output of the camera is analog, RS-170 the baseband video standard for TV, not digital. It's very difficult to say what an equivalent pixel size is, although you can reference the size of the CCD sensor in the camera, but you still don't know what kind of D/A conversion is done in the camera.

Take the camera and hook it up directly to the video input of a standard (not HD) tv monitor (and not one that doubles as a computer monitor). That will be as good as it gets. Although some sets allow direct video input at higher bandwidth than what is used when viewing a cable or over the air TV signal, most will only handle 8mHz color RS-170. The intensity signal (B&W) is 6mhz of that, hence the 377ish number I quoted above. Sometimes you can find test patterns online like the "Indian" or the "starburst". There are converging lines in those patterns that when they disappear, tell you the max resolution you can see.

Editing the video on a computer monitor displaying a much higher resolution at 75hz will not necessarily give you a good indication of the final product when the DVD player converts it back to RS-170.

[roadrace27]

All those numbers you see when you pick a resolution on your PC monitor control panel, like 640x480, etc, really don't mean much in this context. The output of the camera is analog, RS-170 the baseband video standard for TV, not digital. It's very difficult to say what an equivalent pixel size is, although you can reference the size of the CCD sensor in the camera, but you still don't know what kind of D/A conversion is done in the camera.

Yep, but this is about more than just the bullet cam CCD. I just wanted to caution people to check the numbers before dumping their camcorders for DVRs. Many of the units mentioned in this thread can't support the resolution, frame rate, and length of recording (simultaneously) that you need to make a video "at least as good as TV". Many of them max out at 15 minutes or drop the capture resolution down to 320 x 240 to keep an acceptable frame rate.

The entire system (bullet cam + capture device) needs to be viewed as a whole, otherwise you end up with a nice bullet cam sending TV quality video to a DVR that can only record lower quality video.