Bead seat vs the foam seat

[enjoythetrack]

How much were the Baldspot Seat Kits?

Glenn at GTP made my seat 2 weeks ago, was around $299. For me, seats are part of overall safety (what isn't in these cars?) and going a cheap carved foam method seemed to be anti-productive.

[Whoomah]

How much were the Baldspot Seat Kits?

I paid $175 for the small kit (RF93 FC) and got $10 off the nomex covering.

Curt

[ffrgtm]

Can anyone give me more information on lining the sides and back with kevlar.. is this for support or protection? Do you lay the kevlar on the seat and then wet it with epoxy? I don't know much about composites...

[turnbaugh]

If you email me I can tell you how to put the backing on using vacuum bagging. It is pretty easy and makes a nice job.

[TeamDI]

Bald Spot Sports for the win!

I've used them for several formula cars, and I even use them in Sedan seats now.

(covered in nomex)

[RoadHazard]

So what was the final conclusion about lining the inside of the cockpit before making a seat? Is it better to give the bead seat a smooth surface for easy removal, or to have the seat work its way into the nooks and crannies around the chassis frame?

In my Crossle, I don't think the seat will come out in one piece either way. There are too many diagonal crossmembers that will trap it in place. So I'm either gonna have to cut the seat into pieces, or leave it in place forever. That's okay with me. I'm just wondering whether I should let the seat expand into and around the frame, or keep it smaller and contained within the cockpit.

[stephen wilson]

I'm making Alum. panels for the inside of my RF78 right now. IMO you don't want the beads around the frame tubes, so either panel inside the cockpit permanently, or temporarily for the seat "fitting", then cover the bottom/sides with kevlar for support.
Steve

[rickjohnson356]

RH:

Line the inside of the frame to prevent the unwanted spread of the foam/bead material. You will want to be able to remove the seat in order to have access to the fuel cell and for other chassis maintenance as well.

Our foam seat was made by 10/Tenths doing most of the work. We lined the frame with cardboard to form flatish sides and covered a couple of nooks & crannies, then got a black contractors bag , filled it with the foam and sat the driver in it at his best position while it expanded and solidified.

Then we cut a diagonal upper right to lower left to remove the seat in two pieces, Chassis was left in a neat and clean condition.

Then I was responsible for the final finishing to size, cutting the seatbelt holes, sanding and finishing before applying duct tape and then a nomex cover.

Group effort required to do the pour correctly. The rest is just a matter of time to do the job right, a one-man task.

I am now convinced that either a bead or foam seat should be almost required. Both for safety and for the support of the driver. As a driver, you sure can focus better on the course rather than having to brace yourself differently for each corner.

Derek: I'll try to post pics soon. There is no 'upper' half. The seat is kinda rectangular, when driver is in and buckled, there is absolutely no slippage of either the seat or the driver. After really seeing the finished product up close (both Rob Poma's VD) and him in my Crossle, I wonder how I much lap time I lost due to flopping around in the stock seat all these years.

[dereklola]

Then we cut a diagonal upper right to lower left to remove the seat in two pieces, Chassis was left in a neat and clean condition.

What holds the upper half in the car? Why doesn't it work it's way up and out when driver is belted in and working hard?

[rickb99]

So what was the final conclusion about lining the inside of the cockpit before making a seat? Is it better to give the bead seat a smooth surface for easy removal, or to have the seat work its way into the nooks and crannies around the chassis frame?

We lined our cockpit with cardboard be prevent the beads/bag from gettting worked in between the frame rails. Although we didn't cut it before removal, it was ULTRA tight in the cockpit and took 2 of us working on it to remove it. Couldn't even lift it out by the cardboard liner. Even small areas of 'excess' seat got hung up and required a trim to get it out. Just an extra 1/8" of material got hung up on the fire bottle handle bracket and required a trim to remove the seat.

Point is, line the cockpit. Any excess in the frame rails will lead to a war with the bag!

Cutting it before removal is a GOOD idea. When finished and prior to covering/trimming, it's quite brittle and easily broken. Proceed with care.

[Rick Kirchner]

I use the cardboard method. also, use foam pipe insulation over the shift linkage, wirig harness, and any other tubes in the area, and, all other nooks and crannies can be stuffed with newspaper. If you have edges like the sheetmetal sides of a VD fuel cell box, cut vacuum hose and slide over the edges.

[turnbaugh]

Just one comment.

If you get the epoxy/bead ratio correct, you should have a pretty robust seat. It should not be brittle. If it is hard and brittle...too much epoxy. If it is soft and brittle (floppy), not enough. You don't want thin sections, especially on the edges. West epoxy seems to work well.

2 oz. of epoxy per 1 gallon of beads is the right mix. You can also buy the black epoxy coloring agent to put in the mix. This provides a fool proof indicator that the epoxy is mixed thoroughly throughout the beads.

[cooleyjb]

Absolutely cardboard it off. Even then it will be tough to get out the first time and maybe for a while after. You want to be able to take it out so you can modify it. Rarely do you get it perfectly right the first time.

[rickb99]

....not be brittle.....

Probably my error in using the word brittle. Better to have said it's 'fragile'. In that, the epoxy is 'cured' to a good working level in the times specified. But 'cured' to really cured and able to handle robust handling takes a bit longer.

[Skip Weld]

I have been reading this thread on seats and wondered if there are any improvements or seat kits that use smaller bags or anything else new on the subject?
Thanks guys,
Skip Weld

[Rick Kirchner]

You can buy the beads at JoAnne Fabrics, the epoxy from aircraft spruce, and the bagging material from just about any composites supplier and make seats to any size you desire.

[Skip Weld]

Thanks Rich, Any idea what kind of epoxy would be best or does it even matter?
Thanks,
Skip Weld

[TimH]

In the years since this thread started there has come the option of SFI foam which has real advantages over beads:

1) Easier to make.
2) Stays a little flexible so easier to take in/out of the car.
3) Can sustain multiple impacts.

Costs a tad more but most people who try it say it's $ well spent.

[JerryH]

I believe the sfi foam referred to is expanded polyethelyne. It is available in sheets....in several thicknesses.....so one can glue them together and carve out a seat. Of course there are companies that use a combination of sheets and pour in place. The results are great...but you pay for that service.

Jerry Hodges
JDR Race Cars

[TimH]

I believe the sfi foam referred to is expanded polyethelyne

Easier than that:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66731&

and other threads here.