Unbelievable ARRC Contingencies!

[carnut169]

SCCA Enterprises and Hoosier Racing Tires are proud to announce the following prize fund for the FSCCA and SRSCCA class competitors who compete at the SCCA Atlanta Region “ARRC Pro Shootout” event
SCCA Enterprises Gift Certificates will be awarded to the top FSCCA finishers in the following amounts:
1st: $1750
2nd: $1250
3rd: $950
4th: $700
5th: $600
6th: $500
7th: $400
8th: $300
9th: $200
10th: $100
Total $6750

Also, SCCA Enterprises Gift Certificates for the following amounts will be awarded to the top SRSCCA finishers:
1st: $1000
2nd: $500
3rd: $250
Total $1750

Total Competitor Awards: $8,500
We look forward to this event being the largest F/SRSCCA event to date.

Sincerely,
Erik Skirmants[size=3]
[/size]

[size=3]
[/size]

[GT1Vette]

This is in ADDITION to the entry fee payout described in the Supps for Sunday's race.

http://www.arrc-online.com/rules/rules_proshootout.html

Why are there only four FSCCA cars signed up so far? This is an excellent opportunity to demonstrate support for making this a National class.

[sarrcford]

Butch,

So If I signed up for FSCCA and finished third out of four cars, my return would be $950 + 140 x 4 = 560/10%= $1,006?

Do I get a 1099 with that too?

Thanks to SCCA & Hoosier Tires for stepping up !

Rob Poma

[LJennings]

I think it would be 950+(140*4)*.15 = $1034 And yes you will probably receive a 1099.

[Adam Zerlin]

Seriously, this is an amazing opportunity at a wonderful track. Let's go guys..SIGNUP!

[MarkM]

I am really pumped about this event. However, "old,new guy" + Road Atlanta = occasional view of Adam's (and other's) rear wing. Even so , I can hardly wait.

[Dan Aleckson]

I wish we lived closer to this race its to far to come to from the west coast. Hopefully a lot of you will take advantage of this.? cant wait till we have enough cars to have this kind of thing out here, way to go enterpise [Eric] and hoosier. Have fun. Dan aleckson

[LJennings]

Erik,

Why is this money being given away when Enterprise is still in debt?

Does this not take away the profit of the next car sold?

Besides giving the normal answers of it is a budget expense, can we not advertise, da,da,da, is it not an atempt to boost the class.

If so, why does SCCA not hand out prise money to all classes to help offset cost and build fields?

It appears just another case where the BOD is willing to bleed the club dry to self promote their own interests.

[Mark H]

I hate to be a baby but I kinda agree wiht LJ, what makes the FSCCA class so special that they recive $$ for this event and I don't? I pay dues too $150 just last week!

I guess I could rent an FSCCA, hope to win and not crash win $2000 and only pay the rental team $1000 out of my pocket?

Nothing aginst yall FSCCA drivers, I would take the $$ and run, yall should feel lucky that this prize is being offered. I would think that there should be more cars entered also Butch?

[ajs]

Remember this money is in the form of Gift Certificates, not cash.

[SStadel]

Geez,
I'm typing this slowly, so it will be easier for you to understand. SCCA Enterprises is a for-profit company that is wholly owned by SCCA, a not-for-profit company. The prize money (certificates) come out of SCCA Enterprises' budget, which again is a for-profit company. They need to sell cars and parts to make a profit. To sell cars they need to have a class. To get a class they have to have a lot of cars race. To get a lot of cars to race they are offering prizes. If you are selling a product or a service it makes sense to offer "free" samples or whatever to get people to buy your product or service.
If you want to race for these prizes, get a car. Don't like this car, get a Pro Mazda for around $100K. But don't whine because "your" class isn't being supported by "your" distributor/marketer.
The debate as to whether or not SCCA should be in the business of selling cars has only been bantered around about a zillion times and I see no need to hijack this thread with that discussion again.

[Westroc]

We really thought that since Corey, won the Cen/Div CFC Championship that it would be fun to go to Atlanta as it was well covered by Media last year and sounded great.

Our intention was to go.

About Sept 6/7 we started looking for info only to find it was not yet available.
When it was available, there was no Thrusday practice.

Now for us to travel 12 hours for a couple of practices and a Saturday only race did not make sense.

Then it changed again, now there is a Thrusday practice, but at a cost of $200 per competitor.

On checking the entry list this week, I also see that there is only one CFC entered. Not sure that I expected this as CFC is fairly well attended Regional class in Cen Div at least.

Final thoughts, lots of confusion, then lots of changes, and now we don't have a class sponsor. Kind of puts a damper on the ARRC for us.

Sorry guys but just not making a lot of sense, SCCA needs to support ALL CLASSES NOT JUST ONE OR TWO.

[Adam Zerlin]

Is SCCA-Enterprises in the business of selling CFC's? No. They're in the business of selling cars and parts to three classes: SRF, FSCCA and SRSCCA.

SCCA-Enterprises offering something like this has absolutely nothing to do with any other class. As SStadel said, they're handing out Gift Certificates to Hoosier and SCCA-Enterprises (which means they'll get it back when we need to buy parts and tires).

As for the SCCA as a whole: If there aren't enough resources to do something like this for everyone, and you've got a number of groups with good turnouts (as you stated CFC's have in the CenDiv), but poor or inconsistent turnouts for newer classes, like the FSCCA/SRSCCA, then wouldn't you put just enough resources into the currently successful classes only to sustain the level they're at while you pour everything else into the newer classes so that they can grow to that level as well? I would.

I think Erik mentioned something about starting an East Coast series for the FSCCA. If so, then this might be him testing some waters. He could obviously answer that better than I.

I'm all for prizes at the races. The SRF guys started their own championship league that benefitted the CSR's and the drivers (and subsequently the regions with greater turnouts). The parts guys and drivers with their own companies got together and offered gift certificates, money, vacations, etc to drivers who earned enough points throughout the season. The CFC guys and any other SCCA class can do this too. If you don't like how the SCCA is supporting your class, band together and do it yourselves. You guys know yourselves better than the SCCA can! With the good turnouts in the CenDiv, you can start a CenDiv CFC series.

[RussMcB]

Jim, if it's not too late, we'd really like to see you come. Road Atlanta is a fun track and we'll try to make sure you have a good time.

I know there will be more than one CFC. I guess they are just not preregistered yet for whatever reason.

Does $200 sound like a lot for a test day? I think it's a decent price. I think they have 2.5 hours scheduled for each group.

On edit. Sorry, just 2 hours, not 2.5. See http://www.atl-scca.org/Documents%20...ULE%20ARRC.doc

One thing that Rd Atl does that I've always appreciated is they prorate the fee. If you get there after lunch time, for instance, and there are two sessions left, they'll charge you $80. I often go with the intention of only running a test session or two. That's a great arrangement, IMO. I wish all tracks did that, because I'm rarely willing or able to afford a whole test day in addition to the costs of the event itself.

Russ

We really thought that since Corey, won the Cen/Div CFC Championship that it would be fun to go to Atlanta as it was well covered by Media last year and sounded great.

Our intention was to go.

About Sept 6/7 we started looking for info only to find it was not yet available.
When it was available, there was no Thrusday practice.

Now for us to travel 12 hours for a couple of practices and a Saturday only race did not make sense.

Then it changed again, now there is a Thrusday practice, but at a cost of $200 per competitor.

On checking the entry list this week, I also see that there is only one CFC entered. Not sure that I expected this as CFC is fairly well attended Regional class in Cen Div at least.

Final thoughts, lots of confusion, then lots of changes, and now we don't have a class sponsor. Kind of puts a damper on the ARRC for us.

Sorry guys but just not making a lot of sense, SCCA needs to support ALL CLASSES NOT JUST ONE OR TWO.

[Eric Cruz]

Folks, I think the point of this thread is to encourage participation by (primarily SCCA-E cars) to take advantage of the contingencies being offered by Enterprises and Hoosier. Sean is an FS guy - no horse in the race - but he apparently sees this as a good thing to increase formula car fields, period. Something you can go all across this forum and find - people bemoaning the decreasing participation in class F-XXX, pondering new motors that have lower hourly costs, etc. Now we've got the car distributors and tire manufacturers putting their money up and DOING something about it. And we have people here that can see no further than to whine that no one is doing something for them at the same time. WTFO? Makes me think of New Orleans and FEMA, but don't get me started.

If you want contingency money, do something about it. If you don't want to run an Enterprises car, then get a Spec Miata - Toyo is providing $85K this year. CASH. Organize this within your own class if that's what you prefer. Those of us in FSCCA have not been sitting on our asses waiting for a handout - we've been actively supporting the program financially, and have been communicating with our leadership and support organization, and making commitments to participate. I would be there regardless of prize money. I'm an AMATEUR racer - I do it because I love it.

And please stop beating the horse that your dues have somehow paid for my race car. I run a company - it borrows money from banks, and it also lends money to the new company we just formed (and jointly own). Everyone pays their debts on time with appropriate interest. We are not giving the new company anything - we lend them money and they pay it back. It is a clearly defined and followed financial process, even though the two companies' names are similar - this confuses some people apparently. To my knowledge, Enterprises has not defaulted on any loans from SCCA, Inc., and IIRC, I recently read in FasTrack that they were ahead of projected schedule in loan repayment. I have to spend money to make money. If Enterprises management determines this is money well spent to help ensure the success of their product, then that is their call.

And if you just think I'm full of crap, then go buy an FSCCA, so my dues can help pay for your car, too (and then you can beat me at the ARRC and take away my contingency money...). And I'll be a happy camper because the field will have been made larger, and I'll have one more person to race with. Isn't that what we all really want?

See you at the ARRC!

Best regards,
Eric

[Chet Zerlin]

There are actually only four FSCCAs currently registered for the Pro Shootout as I'm driving in the Saturday race and Adam is running the same car in the Pro race on Sunday (of course as the S P O N S E R I wold expect to get at least a "share" of any winnings... ).
Considering the prize money available, it would sure make sense for more of the FSCCA/SRSCCA guys to make the haul there even if it is just for that race. What other races have we all driven 6 or more hours to for the chance of winning that $12 trophy? Come on guys - take the plunge! From all previous reports this is really THE race weekend to be at...

FSCCA #22
Chassis #70

[SStadel]

For some reason I was under the impression that the ARRC was the first weekend in November. I now see that it is the second weekend, which gives me an extra week to recover from my back surgery. This doesn't mean that I'll be able to drive the race car, but I should be able to get our rig and cars to Atlanta if anyone is interested in renting. I would have 2 cars available, and would rather make the trip only if both were rented. Besides I just got a killer tow rig and I'm dying to use it!

If you are interested in trying these cars out, and would like to get some of your rental back in prizes, let me know. Although the Enterprise bucks are certificates, I would be willing to purchase your winnings back in cash, as I know I'll be buying parts over the course of the next several years, especially with three cars in the stable.

I really love these cars and the concept, so I'll do what ever I can to increase the participation.

If interested, please call Steve Stadel at 815-845-2538. My email address is racer6@mchsi.com . Get together with a friend and rent them both. I would certainly make a deal for both cars.

[Mark H]

I was not saying that I paid for yall's car??

I was just admiring the fact that yall have a pro race and we don't?
Gee Sorry if you got mad.

See Yall at RA Ill be in the 22 yr. old Reynard, but I'm sure yall will be way up front ahead of me on Sat, and since CFC is not allowed in the Sun race for sure yall will be ahead of me.

[jgaither]

If I make it through the VIR regional next weekend, I plan to be there. Also Randall Yow. Be nice - we're rookies. Honest!

JG

[formulasuper]

See Yall at RA Ill be in the 22 yr. old Reynard, but I'm sure yall will be way up front ahead of me on Sat, and since CFC is not allowed in the Sun race for sure yall will be ahead of me.

Mark, get that CFC homologated in FS also & you can run on Sunday!

[RussMcB]

Mark, get that CFC homologated in FS also & you can run on Sunday!

Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if Mark is working on a list of possible changes he could make to his car after Saturday's impound and before Sunday's race. I'd think there'd be enough time to swap out the Pinto engine and put in the Thunderbird Turbo engine he's been talking about. It might take a while to figure out how to fabricate wheelie bars for the back.

[Erik Skirmants]

Erik,

Why is this money being given away when Enterprise is still in debt?

Does this not take away the profit of the next car sold?

Besides giving the normal answers of it is a budget expense, can we not advertise, da,da,da, is it not an atempt to boost the class.

If so, why does SCCA not hand out prise money to all classes to help offset cost and build fields?

It appears just another case where the BOD is willing to bleed the club dry to self promote their own interests.

Mr Jennings,

Others have replied with the facts regarding the mixing of Enterprises and Inc in terms of who promotes FSCCA and why. (thanks all!!!)

As someone who, from time to time, was also AGAINST the existance of Enterprises, I can assure you the first thing I did was insist we stay in Denver (three more years and then maybe move trackside somewhere, preferrably here) AND seperate from Inc as much as possible. We are preparing our 2006 budget and our increase in loan repayment, we have been profitable for YEARS, and will be again in 2005. The total loan will be repaid AND SCCA Inc will have made HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS on the interest as a consolation for the loans (the value of that interest changed greatly as the investment market changed). The losses on the Shelby Cranapple and Panoz cars lost Enterprises three to four times the loan amounts. Reviewing history I am very impressed that neither of those sunk Enterprises for good.

If you think you know Enterprises, yet have never spoken to me about what we are doing...you are making a mistake. You simply could not know what we are about and where we are going. It will take MONTHS to get all of our customers more comfortable with us, and YEARS for the regular members to see the changes as they are not usually well enough versed on the subject to have a reasonable level of knowledge to work from. Just look at what we are doing versus other formula car companies in terms of racer track support and club racing friendly decisions...we know you, in fact we are you (I ran FF and FC the entire 1990's), and we are going to offer superior support because of that fact.

Regarding this money. Hoosier and Enterprises have a tire contract, we receive a small per tire rebate for marketing. Bruce Foss told me we where going to have more money coming back than I had already commited to spend, so I am giving ALL OF IT back to the competitors. Now unless you have ever negotiated a tire contract, please refrain from making the incorrect conclusion that every dollar we get back could have reduced the already VERY low cost of the FSCCA tires by $5 or any measurable amount. Tire compaies sell tires based on expected volumes, then they add marketing monies to try to exceed the volume and get brand recogniation out of their investment.

Enterprises in no way influenced the ARRC schedule. In fact I love the idea of the Pro Shootout, but feel we are suffering from the timeline that we ended up with. Simply put, I arrived in Denver in June, lived without my family out of my RV for three months, and time just got away from me. No excuses, I screwed up.

[carnut169]

It tough when you have a non-profit group like SCCA mixed with a for profit group (Enterprises). It just makes people cautious.


Back to the subject at hand...

The ARRC!!

It should be quite an event with all of the contingencies, 2 races, a pro-shoot out, Atlanta weather in November (awesome) and ROAD ATLANTA- one of the best tracks in the country.
It also gets coverage in Formula Car & other mags. Its our national championship!

I would not miss it.

[Matt M.]

It should be quite an event with all of the contingencies, 2 races, a pro-shoot out, Atlanta weather in November (awesome) and ROAD ATLANTA- one of the best tracks in the country.
It also gets coverage in Formula Car & other mags. Its our national championship!

It does sound good.
It has me thinking of a road trip.....

[Eric Cruz]

I've read the supps, schedule, etc. and cannot find it written how they plan to grid us for the "Shootout" race on Sunday. Since there doesn't appear to be a separate qualifying session scheduled, and particpants are required to run the Saturday ARRC race, I presume they will grid us based on Saturday finishing positions. Does anybody know for sure?

Thanks,
Eric

[Erik Skirmants]

I've read the supps, schedule, etc. and cannot find it written how they plan to grid us for the "Shootout" race on Sunday. Since there doesn't appear to be a separate qualifying session scheduled, and particpants are required to run the Saturday ARRC race, I presume they will grid us based on Saturday finishing positions. Does anybody know for sure?

Thanks,
Eric

"Group 9" qualifying appears to be Sunday at 8:30 am...since the Group 9 race is over, I assume this is for the Shootout?

[carnut169]

No...


http://www.arrc-online.com/schedule.html

[RussMcB]

I heard they are taking the last letter of your last name and using it to determine a grid in alphabetical order. :-).

[Eric Cruz]

Well, it would save me on tires, and I'd probably end up in the same place...
My mistake - the schedules do call for a qualifying session Sunday morning for Group 9 - sometimes I just don't know how I ever make it to the grid on time.

0830 Sunday, either 15 or 20 minutes long, depending on which schedule you read...

Eric

[formulasuper]

I heard they are taking the last letter of your last name and using it to determine a grid in alphabetical order. :-).

Figures.

[Adam Zerlin]

Figures.

Not so fast my friend!

I'll be right behind ya.

[GT1Vette]

Group 8, which qualifies on Friday and races on Saturday, is the "Wings & Things" group. This race is totally separate from the Pro Shootout, which is Group 9.

Group 9 (the Pro Shootout only) has a separate qualifying session Sunday morning and races first thing after lunch.

I've also been asked by the Registrar to correct something I posted here earlier. Apparently people are failing to read the Supps regarding where to send their entry checks (yes, it IS difficult to find!), so I said it's okay to bring it to the window. Gwen tells me she has only 20 checks for the (now) 200+ entries that have been received, and that will create a bottleneck at Registration. Therefore PLEASE send your check to:

Atlanta Region SCCA
3180 Presidential Drive, Suite N
Atlanta, GA 30340

Checks will NOT be deposited until after the event, but sending it now will make the lines move faster.

Thanks,

Butch Kummer
Atlanta Region

[Rob Howden]

Hi guys...

FormulaCar Magazine will be in attendance to cover the race for an upcoming issue. Our man Mike Eakin has been put on the assigment and will be at Road Atlanta. We will be looking for photos, so if any freelance shooters are planning to attend, please contact me via e-mail so that we can set it up to obtain photos in short order.

rhowden@formulacarmag.com

Rob Howden
FormulaCar Magazine
eformulacarnews.com