Motion sickness in race car

[Tom Duncan]

Has anyone experienced motion sickness related to vision/inner ear issues while driving their race car? If so please volunteer your story and any causes/fixes you have found.

I had the unfortunate experience this last weekend at the San Francisco Region regional race event at Thunderhill to feel significantly nauseous within 5 minutes of hitting the track in all sessions over two days. By the 6th and final on-track session of the weekend (the race) I could barely function, and probably shouldn't have been there.

It could have been a result of an overly large Mexican meal at a local restaurant Friday night before the weekend, a mild flu bug, or maybe the vision/inner ear issue. I am trying to get more information about the vision/inner ear idea.

I do get motion sickness easily on boats, small planes, or certain amusement park rides, but it has never happened while driving the race car in a 15 year career.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Tom Duncan

[R John Lye]

One of the E-Prod drivers from our region has
been fighting this problem also. I don't know
what he's tried (but he hasn't been out at all
this year, and only once or twice last year, as
I recall), so I'm not sure that he's got it solved
yet. Sorry I can't be of more help, but you're
not alone, anyway.

I hope you can solve it,
John

[dc]

Hey Tom,

I had this happen to me at a driver's school early last year. There is a long thread on this exact subject on the F2000 side here. Lots of good information. Anyone who hasn't ever had motion sickness can never fully understand how horrible it is, and then try to imagine wearing a helmet at the same time. Easily one of the worst experiences I have had in a race car.

I have learned since what to do and what not to do. First of all, downing Rolaids, Tums and whatever just makes it worse. Dramamine is abslutely not the way to go, because it makes you drowsey, and that includes the "non-drowsey" formula. Definitely don't take anything like that and get in a car. Then again, if it never happened before, and you got queasey during the day, Dramamine would have already been too late and wouldn't have worked.

I was told later that Ginger has curing potential in a big way, for some reason. Ginger ale and ginger snaps in the cooler just in case are near me on a race weekend if I'm going to be in the car. Seriously. I know that on my occasion, my pre-race eating habits had a lot to do with my problem, too, so that is a huge factor. I'm guessing the spicy Mex food probably contributed to your issues, too. Bet you won't do that again.


doug

[musciano]

Tom:
Sorry to hear about your motion sickness problem. I had the same ailment a few years ago but have been able to control it. Like you, I also get sick on amusement park rides and as a back-seat passenger, etc.
I've been racing since the 1970's without any problem until '99. I started to get nauseous during a 2-hour Spec Racer enduro and thought it was from breathing exahust fumes for a long period of time. At a night enduro, it become debilitating. Although I would "recover" on the straights, I got horribly sick in every turn. By the end of my stint I jumped out of the car, torn off my helmet and vomited. I remained sick for hours more.
The following year I was back in my FF and by the end of a test day I was feeling ill. The turning point was at a race a few weeks later. I was sitting on the false grid, with a terrible headache. I proceeded to drive like a mad-man and finished third. But by now I was horribly nauseous. I was slumped over sitting in impound and a woman (who was a nurse) asked if I was OK. I told her I was very sick. She asked if I had taken in enough water, which I did. She asked If I had eaten enough and it became obvious that although I had a bowl of oatmeal for breakfast, I had not eaten all day. She said, "that's it, you must be a little hypoglycemic". Since then I've been careful to eat small amounts of food continuously during a race weekend. (Fruit, ginger tea, hard boiled eggs, etc. No fat) I did 13 races or so last year and had no problem.
As a precaution I also chew bits of fresh ginger root which helps to keep you stomach settled. Once the nausea starts you can't stop it.
I also did some research on the web and apparently fighter pilots have the problem too. In most cases it is due to not flying enough. The more you do it the more tolerance you'll develop. Apparently the tendency to motion sickness gets worse with age as well.
I hope this is helpful to you. Feel free to contact me.
Gary Musciano
gary.musciano@herbstmusciano.com

[R John Lye]

Its interesting that you both mention the use of
ginger to help with the motion sickness. There is
scientific evidence to support this use. Several
years ago, a research team was investigating a new
motion sickness drug. They needed a placebo as a
control for the drug, and apparently arbitrarily
chose powedered ginger packaged in gelatin capsules
(which is how their drug was being delivered also)
as the placebo. To their great surprise, the ginger
was actually more effective at preventing motion
sickness than their drug. As I recall, this study
was reported in "Nature" and if anyone really cares
I might be able to find to original reference.
Anyway, ginger is likely to give some relief of
motion sickness.

Good luck,
John

[heapcoup]

I know one of the secrets to motion sickness.
I used to fish salmon commercially with my grandfather. Every morning we would go have a nice breakfast at a diner before going to sea. But one year, suddendly, I started getting sick. Now after about three days, you should get your sea legs; not me. It kept happening. But some mornings we got a late start and didn't get breakfast and those days I did NOT get sick. Conclusion: food made me sick.
WRONG.
Years later, while working as a reporter, I started getting motion sickness just standing around! I thought it was stress. It got worse. I also started to break out with wicked, painful boils. Enough was enough so I went to the doctor. After more than an hour of questions about my lifestyle and eating habits we got to talking about salmon fishing and my sea-sickness. The doctor then put it all together:
The cause was caffiene! I was a coffee guzzler; especially at breakfast! Caffiene is a vaso-restricter; it makes your blood vessels shrink. That is why your hands and feet feel cold after a cup or two. Well, it also restricts the little tubes and fluid in your inner ear and puts your equilibrium at odds with your vision: the cause of motion sickness. The boils were caused by the tiny lymph vessels in my skin being shut off and toxins building up. This is one of the main causes of teenage zits, the doctor said. What was worse is that this "allergy" is acquired; the more you consume the more chance you have of getting "seasick." To this day, I am very sensitive to tea, cola, coffee and even chocolate. One soda or one cup of joe will not make me sick at my desk, but if I were to drive up the Kern Canyon or get in the race car, I am sure I would!
Since that diagnosis, I have been on the lookout for more "vaso-restricters." Nicotine is one and carbon monoxide can make you nauseated.I try to stay in the fresh air at the track.
Stay away from COFFEE and cola at the races!

[Jim Garry]

Hypoglycemia, vaso constrictors, too much food, not enough water .... all of these are possible. For me it is a congenital condition whereby the passages from my inner ear are smaller than they should be. If I grab my son by the wrists and swing him in a circle even once, I get dizzy. But the only time I've ever been dizzy in a race car (that includes Solo AND road racing) is when I was doing skid pad testing. Wow was I sick.

The doctors put me through a balance test and I got sicker than anyone they had ever seen. They had no solution. Their answer was "don't do that". But as I said, driving doesn't do it, except for skid pad testing, and also driving "the road to Hanna" on Maui. I'm just aware of trying to be being physically ready (diet, physical fitness, what have you). But I'm going to try those ginger roots.

See a doctor.

Good luck,
Jim

[Tom Duncan]

Thanks to all for your input on this matter. I have many ideas to follow that hopefully will put this issue to rest. I have seen the reference to Ginger root quite often and I am going to look into it. I am going to the doctor tomorrow for the balance test...I wish Jim had not mentioned that it gets you sick again!

One thing I didn't mention before is that I spend quite a bit of time in front of a computer screen (both LCD and CRT). I can't help but wonder if it's doing something to my eyes.

I will post any more information I get, and if anyone else has anything more to contribute please do.

Tom

[Smallville]

Dear Tom:

I have exactly the same feeling when I go off turn 8 at thunderhill at top speed. Must be the mexican food.

Mike Wells

[Jim Garry]

Tom,
Well ... the test made ME sick. The technician administering the test told me she had never seen anyone throw up from the test before. So all I know is that throwing up doesn't seem to be common. However, it is possible that you feel a bit sick from it. And the only part of the test that got me sick was the last part, when they put water in your ear while asking you to do stuff. I felt like a circus act.

I hope you come through with flying colors and no flying food.

Jim

[EYERACE]

cool...some physiology, vision, inner ear and neurology stuff. however, the eyedoc has limited time right now....so let's just add only a few thoughts right now -

GET A GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP the night before, leave the serious drinking 'til after the race [ya'll see what the shoemachers did in Japan after the race?] -unless you really got to thrash the car at midnight [why is it so often that that seems to virtually guarantee you'll win the next day?] then

1. get your sorry butt in shape - cycle hard, skip rope until your arms fall off, treadmill wearing your driver's suit and maybe even your helmet.

2. eat light and way [can you say two hours? - think the swimming vs. eating thing] before the race - canned pears, hard boiled eggs but throw away the yolk, a little bread, nothing spicy or very acid. Drink the gatorade and lots of water too ...but ...i like to drink cold Canada Dry [only Canada Dry - it's potassium based all others are sodium based]
Club Soda starting about a half hour before the race. it's going to help you burp 'cuz it's carbonated, it's mildly alkaline so it's sort of like an antacid to settle your stomach, it's cold so it's stimulating, it's got an important electrolyte.

3. don't get overheated sitting in the car on the grid with your suit on - get out, stay cool - so perhaps forget about a suit less than SFI-3.5 or whatever it is minimum for a single layer - doesn't make any sense to stand around in the underwear if you're trying to stay cool - almost 90% of your body heat is lost via your head so don't put your helmet on until the very last minute after belting into the car

4. take a really good pee shortly before the race and then go do it again before the race - believe it or not it will help [only a little-but it will]to keep your blood pressure down a little during the race. 5. on that note > gotta go , said earlier i had limited time!......and warm your body up before you get into the car > STRETCHHHHHH your legs/hamstrings/sprinters position for your thighs/back/groin/shoulders/rotator cuff/arms/hands/touch your toes and hold it grasshopper....then swing/kick your foot up as high as you can several times without bending your knee to really stretch your hams...then sprint some - see if you can beat the golf cart that tows those FA cars - it's your only chance to show 'em up.....i can still do 14 mph on my toes and i'm 50 years old, i challenge anyone here to the 3 yard dash - it's an endurance event you know...warm yourself up as the car warms up......well, still gotta go see if beer changes color

[EYERACE]

there is an eyedoc up in Seattle who claims that with eye exercises he can cure people of sea and motion sickness......Hmmmmmmm,....

while i practice utilizing eye exercises [for some selected patients], i've never wanted to claim what the Seattle doc does....though i could begin to ramble off some words trying to describe some eye exercises described as: motility and vestibular interaction activities....

i shall not bore the reader here, my suggestion to the thread starter on the subject of vision as mentioned in their post is this > find an eye doc [and your average ophthalmologist is not versed in this field] as an optometrist well experienced in binocular and perceptual visual therapy, you might have to look a long time. Also an occasional eyedoc these days [just like the sports medicine specialist] is holding themselves out as a sports vision consultant.

[racerxlilbro]

I had a horrible experience on Sunday driving my Crossle at Willow Springs in the VARA Big Bore Bash.

I got a terrible start, and had to work pretty hard to get the lead back. At halfway, I was leading my class, and felt like I was really having to work a lot harder in the car than I should. The conditions were cold and windy. I had a big moment in Willow's notorious Turn 9, catching a violent snap oversteer. Halfway down the straight later, my head started to spin, and I was afraid I was going to puke in my helmet. I got my hand up, and crawled back to the pits.

I'd felt great all weekend, didn't drink too much the night before, and felt well rested. I am, however, a pretty serious caffeine junky - and had consumed a small cup of coffee, and a diet coke, as well as a medium sized bottle of water. I'd had a light breakfast, and a reasonable lunch a few hours before the race.

Also, in order to make our in-car radio work better, we'd put some tape over the vents on the front of my Arai to reduce wind noise. Is carbon monoxide poisoning possible in an open cockpit car?

The strangest part of all this is I still feel like crap three days later. I have no fever, but feel like I'm out of sorts, nauseous, and disoriented. In the past, any motion sickness symptoms have disappeared in a few hours. I even went to my Dr. yesterday, and he said I had no traditional vertigo symptoms, BPPV, and wanted to treat it like it was just motion sickness (i.e. antivert, Marezine, etc.).

I'm perplexed, and discouraged...not just because it cost me a win (dammit), but because I wonder how this could affect me in the future.

Brad

[M.Sauce]

I used to have a customer who had issues with motion sickness while driving his Swift Db5.He used to drink this liquid called ematrol(spelling?).It worked for him but every time he got out of the car and took his helmet off he looked like a rabid dog foaming at the mouth.I am sure a medical answer would make more sense.

[Steve Demeter]

Check with your doctor about sea sickness patches.

They can have the side effect of nmaking you dizzy. I have used them for years for going fishing and never got sick or dizzy on a boat .

[dc]

It does sound to me like carbon monoxide effects.

It happened to me the last time I was at an indoor karting facility out here. Normally I have no issues with those places, but this particular time, I got ghastly ill and had to leave the track area. It was definitely an overdose of CO for me, and I felt like I had a hang-over for the next few days. I'm a little more sensitive to stuff like this so it kind of hits me harder than most people.

Have not heard of it in an open cockpit car, though.

The caffeine thing is bad, though, because it's a diuretic and it will dehydrate you--which will make you more susceptible to motion sickness, in my experience. Might have been a combination of breathing your own air, dehydration and equilibrium issues. A perfect storm of blech.

[SMac35]

It is usually largely dependent on what I eat the night/day before. I have thrown up in my helmet...twice. Once was at a kart race when I ate 2 BIG Reese's Cups and an Apple about 2 mins before I got in the kart. Another is eating lots of ribs the night before instructing a PDX, no I didn't throw up in my students car, but in my friends SRX7. I I try not too eat too much before/during the race weekend, and if I do, it is usually healthy. I take Bonine about an hour before I instruct, and it usually helps. I also drink a good amount of water.

Hope this helps,
Steven

[mousecatcher]

It is possible that front-to-rear spring rates induce motion sickness. They do account for this in road cars.

[bill gillespie]

Scopolamine patch ??

[Steve Demeter]

Exactly what I was talking about

[Bob Coury]

Hope it is something minor. When I read your post, I though of my mother who meniere's disease:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9ni%C3%A8re's_disease

She would get dizzy and nauseous fo no reason at all. Low salt diet to reduce fluid in the ear helped.

[Matthew Inge]

My dad can get motion sickeness pretty easily and now that he has started driving our FE, it doesnt help. HIs solution=very simple.

Prior to getting in your car for the first time of the weekend, put a seaband on your wrist. He hasn't had a problem since. Whether they actually help or it is just mental, he has told several people and seems to work for all.

[Purple Frog]

Thankfully, I've never had the problem. I drink Diet Coke on the grid.

It is possible to get Carbon Monoxide poisoning, even though rare in open cars. Were you in the Crossle?, or another car?

Sometimes, in some bodywork, the airstream pulls air out of the engine compartment via the cockpit opening, right past your head.

Another issue i have seen, especially in FF, where a lot of cars have high center mounted tailpipes. The cars are lined up nose to tail on grid (like the June Sprints). It gets to be a long 5 minute warning, and you sit there breathing the exhaust from the car immediately in front. (really bad if they are burning C-44). The full effect wouldn't set in til you are on the track.

[iamuwere]

I only ever feel ill during full course yellow. Nose to tail with exhaust fumes while trying to keep heat in the tires. Extra heat radiating into the cockpit. jim

I hate full course yellow.

jim

[F five hunj]

I've never had problems driving my car, but after a day of roller coasters or a flight I get a "residual vertigo". It's kind of wierd, but after the motion stops, it still feels like i'm bouncing around or looping etc.... It's a problem with my inner ear tricking my brain into thinking i'm still moving around. It can keep me from sleeping for hours and hours.

My doctor prescribed a medicine called anti-vert, which works very well for me. I don't know how it would affect your racing, but I've driven around town no problem.

[Jtovo]

I wear these bands when I race. They work.

http://www.amazon.com/Band-Motion-Si.../dp/B000R9D63M

[dc]

Yup, you can get them at Walgreens. No drugs, no drowsy.

[racerxlilbro]

Thankfully, I've never had the problem. I drink Diet Coke on the grid.

It is possible to get Carbon Monoxide poisoning, even though rare in open cars. Were you in the Crossle?, or another car?

Sometimes, in some bodywork, the airstream pulls air out of the engine compartment via the cockpit opening, right past your head.

Another issue i have seen, especially in FF, where a lot of cars have high center mounted tailpipes. The cars are lined up nose to tail on grid (like the June Sprints). It gets to be a long 5 minute warning, and you sit there breathing the exhaust from the car immediately in front. (really bad if they are burning C-44). The full effect wouldn't set in til you are on the track.

Yes, I was in the Crossle. No yellow, but I'm curious about what the effect of taping off the front of my helmet could've been. I understand a blood test can confirm whether or not one had Carbon Monoxide - but it may be too long after the fact.

I've tried Sea Bands before, and they didn't do a thing for me. Wait, scratch that - they did leave neat little impressions on my wrists.

I'm going to wean myself off caffeine ::sniff, sniff:: and try to reduce sodium. Those are great suggestions. Tests for BPPV, and any significant problem were inconclusive. I do still have ringing in my left ear - and will follow up with an ENT today for a hearing test. WHAT? I SAID HEARING TEST! That's no joke, really. I spent my teen years playing drums in rock bands, my early twenties travelling around the country working on race cars, and my forties saying, "What???"

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'm greatly encouraged to know I'm not the only person whose had motion sickness in the car.

[farrout]

Great discussion.

As a child, I would get quite carsick. Forget about a circular motion carnival ride or a roller coaster. A Ferris Wheel is no fun either. Still do get carsick (at 62) if I ride in the back seat. Seasick - you bet. (Try riding a SSN from Groton for 8 hours on the surface with a hangover) Have done some instructing but riding in the right seat is a killer. A couple of years ago, I started getting nauseous in a DSR. Tracks with elevation changes are the worst.

My solution so far is to take a Dramamine on race day. Neither the normal or non-drowsy versions make me sleepy. I already do the fluids and multiple light meals trick which does not help me.

[Jim Gustafson]

I suppose this is something that alot of us don't really want to admit to, but motion sickness is common and it even happens to the best (Jochen Rindt) on certain circuits or conditions. I used to get sick when I was first learning to fly, and even now if I haven' been in the car for quite awhile, I feel it a little bit. What works for me, is a Dramamine taken about an hour before I go out. It will take care of me for the whole day. You don't have to worry about being drowsy as most of us are pretty amped up.

Jim Gustafson
Visual Communications

new email jgustafson47840@att.net (I forgot to update my contact info here two months ago)

[SCOTTY81]

I actually had a plugged up ear.....
Went to the doc and he told me it jacked up my balance.

Cleaned em and out and I was good as new.

[Campbell Motorsport]

I would suggest trying Marezine. It works better then dramamine without the sleepy feeling. I've raced sailboats for over 40 years, and while blessed with pretty good sea legs have used it on ugly, long, off shore races- and it works great. I have used it since the 70's and while I can't confirm it, I seem to remember reading it was developed with NASA in conjunction with the space program. While it is an over the counter drug, you are not likely to find in in your local drug store. You can have them order it for you or buy on line. I think you will find it a much better alternative to dramamine.

Larry Campbell

[racerxlilbro]

Hearing test came back fine.

Now I just need to look at all the other stuff - hydration, conditioning, and maybe use an over the counter remedy like Marezine.

Thanks,

Brad

[gcoffin]

Actually had this happen for 2 laps at ORP (and to 2 of my mates) in the half pipe......yeah thats right the half pipe like a carnival ride that they keep the hose next to....I just directed my vision further forward and no more problems.

Glad to see I was not alone, thought I was getting old

[Charles Warner]

Several racing physicians have suggested Bonine as an alternative to Dramamine. Start the day before the race with one each morning. No drowsiness or other side effects.

[P3FV]

I experienced exactly this problem in my FV. I felt horrible during and after enough events that I was considering giving up. The worst time was a WINDY event in which I pulled off after 1/2 distance ready to puke. A friend asked if it could be carbon monoxide, which seemed silly in an open, rear engine car. The next day I discovered an exhaust leak under the engine cover. After correction of this hidden danger I have had no further issues. Good luck.

Neil

[thomschoon]

Several racing physicians have suggested Bonine as an alternative to Dramamine. Start the day before the race with one each morning. No drowsiness or other side effects.

When flying I use the generic version, Meclizine, they can be purchased for under $10 for a hundred, will try it at the next race day as I have had some issues in the winged cars. Sadly have been taking this for air sickness for ten years and 2 million air miles and cant beat the inner ear thing.

[budawe]

I found that allergies made things worse. Using an nasal spray, Flonase helped a lot to reduce pressure and fluid in the inner ear. I don't scrub tires opn the warm up lap due to upset stomach.

[Richard Dziak]

I have had 4 major ear surgeries, and drive an F1000 and after reading about the drivers that had problems to naseau and dizzyness, I would suspect that this happened on colder days with higher wind velocity. On cold days and at high speeds in open wheel cars, there is can be a vast amount of cold air that can enter the helmet from the neck area and rush up into the racing helmet.

High winds and cold air entering the outer ear canal will give you these effects. While hearing tests will most likely come out positive, (after the fact) I can understand the feelings that you have had.

If your going to drive an open wheel race car on cold and windy days, just pack the ear canals with cotton. You just need to avoid the sudden swish of cold air into the ear. It effects balance and creates upset stomachs very easliy and rapidly. Eardrums are very sensitive to cold air and high velocity wind entering the ear. There are many nerves in the ear that many do not realize or know about.

No drugs needed. Be sure to keep the cotton in the ear canal thru-out the day. I am almost certain this will cure the problem.

On days of warmer outside air temps the problem of upset stomachs and balance will not occur.

Keep a few cotton balls in a plastic bag inside your racing helmet bag, especially if your in the car on cold and windy days.

[racerxlilbro]

All,

Thanks for all the great replies to this ancient thread! I'm off caffeine, been working on improving my cardio fitness, and plan to take Marezine before driving. The comment about cold air is interesting - as I understand one of the basic balance tests given to folks who've experienced dizziness is exactly that: drops of cold fluid in the ear. Sounds awful. I was, as always, wearing earplugs. On this day, they were radio plugs.

In any case, we'll see how this weekend in Chuckwalla goes! Will post updates after the weekend.

Thanks again,

Brad