Formula 1000

[carnut169]

Went back to Crutchfield yesterday...

Who in their right mind would turn a nice, simple racecar into a complicated mess??



Its really not as bad as it appears. Crutchfield is installing everything (only two items left there- the exhaust and sump tank) then it all comes back out, frame gets welded/ powdercoated, bellypan, then it all goes back in (but neatly).

[Devildog]

Being an Ex bike racer (just kicked the habit) I just can't keep out of this thread. The prospect of a bike based open wheel class is very very tempting. Modern bike engines are just insane. It was'nt very long ago you had to spend $25,000 to get 150hp out of a superbike, now they all make that with the headlights still on. However I think that could be one of the problems. So hopefully no one will be offended if I join in.

1.I read this entire thread and I saw a lot of call for "stock" engines. With the rate of development of bikes nowadays a 2 year old bike is damn near outdated. The new liter bikes have titanium valvetrain and such as standard. Stock would work, but only if the engines were viewed as disposable. just plan on getting a new one every couple of yrs. Of course even at that, there are PLENTY of ways to get a bunch more power out of a "stock" bike engine. Just ask anyone who has ever raced AMA supersport. Maybe using the supersport rules would be a easier. (balance & blueprint, adjustable cam sprockets, injection tuning box, and an exhaust system).

2. The other big worry would be the crank. when you are anything other than genteel with the throttle on a big bike it just spins the wheel (and spits you off...lol), One corner of a FC has 10 times the contact patch of a bike. I would think the crank would twist right out of it. How have the DSR guys dealt with this?

3.Also, I was curious, what kind of chain are you guys gonna run. the stock size or do you think you can use a 520?

[formulasuper]

Oh boy! Here we go!

[RobLav]

Here we go again - lol.

I use 530 chain.

[carnut169]

I've been reading the Sports racer forum on a regular basis and do not recall anyone complaining about a crank problem. Axles, clutches, and meltdowns are the problems some seem to have.

It also seems as though the folks running stock motors seem to get a long life out of them provided they don't run short of oil. For me, 2yrs is the plan. I'll put the motor on Ebay with an honest description and get $200 for it. I'll buy a fresh one for $2500ish and its a min of 1/2 the price for pintos... oh, and as a bonus you get a fresh clutch and trans as well.

530 is the chain everyone is using.

[Devildog]

Hey, I did say it was all new to me. That was just my .02 from my own experiences.

[formulasuper]

Hey Devildog, We didn't mean anything derogatory towards you. What you said just brings up a bunch of new concerns, at least for me. I plan on running the Hayabusa 1300 (currently used in the C Sportsracer class) in the FS class, (I guess I don't have a forum, FS is used to designate the Formula SCCA car!) You know of any particular concerns I should have with this engine?

[carnut169]

any more progress Scott?

[formulasuper]

Well, having just retired last week I may possibly have "some" time to devote to the Ralt/Suzuki FS project. Just got back from MA with my Factory Five Cobra Roadster kit yesterday, so probably won't be watching any soap operas! Do you think you'll be doing any racing this season?!

[jerry freeman]

Sean O.

Is your car going to be ready for the Atlanta regional? I have a super vee f1000
conversion going and was going to bring the car to be homologated. It won't be
ready to race but it's getting close.

Jerry Freeman

[RussMcB]

Jerry, FYI: Homologation isn't done through tech inspectors (ie., at the track). It's via paperwork to SCCA HQ. If you contact SCCA they will send you the forms. You return them (with lots of pictures of your car) and, as long as your car fits the FS rules, they'll send homologation papers to you. You need to have the homologation forms in your log book to be allowed to race in the FS class.

I talked to Sean recently. His car is still at the builder's, so he wont be racing for a little while longer.

[RobLav]

How's that car coming Jerry?

I received the homologation forms from SCCA a couple years ago. They may be available on the web. FS homologation is essentially a conglomeration of safety, formula, and sports racer requirements.

DevilDog - I meant nothing derogatory either. lol - it seems we have talked about this a lot. I also have a Hayabusa in my Van Diemen.

My car still sits. No progress at all. Been working on two old Porsches instead. Looks like a winter project now.

If I get my arse in gear, I'd sell my BMW and pick up an older FC just to keep running. I don't need all six cars I have... Jon S's Vector looks like a good car to me. Anybody want to trade a 1998 M3 for an FC?

[Devildog]

Just curious here. How many of these cars are there competing in the southeast right now? Is this something that is well on it's way to being a class, or is it just a couple of cars right now?

[carnut169]

Right now there are none.


BUT.... Scott, Rob, Jerry, Mike, and myself are all building them.

I suspect that more will follow esp in the 93-96 FC range since they are too new for CFC and too old to be competitive with the 98+ cars. The 97 sort of sits in the middle.


Jerry- Like Russ said the car is still up at the shop. I hope to have it ready for the ARRC but we will just have to wait and see.

[John Green]

Rob,
More info on the M3?

[RobLav]

John,

You really interested in the M3?

Black sedan 5 speed grey leather.
127K miles
Long list of new parts and work done last winter and car sits in garage...
Looking for about $12K. For more info/pics, please EMail:

laverty_robert@bah.com

[jerry freeman]

Russ

Obviously, I'm still learning about formula cars. BUT, how can you say something
is alright to race if you only see pictures of it? I don't have a problem with this, but it seems a little strange. About how long does it take to get this done after they have the paperwork?

Rob

The car is almost ready, I think. It runs and functions ok so far. I hope to get the brakes working this weekend so I can take it down the road and back. Then it just needs some little finish work and paint. I'll try to send some pics this weekend if I get a chance.

Thanks for all the info.

Jerry

[RobLav]

Jerry,

Agree the homologation can be funky, but they are not really in depth about whether the car is safe to run or not (just the basics) - that will come at tech inspection. Homologation is really to register and pick a class to run it in.

I'm glad the car worked out for you Jerry.

[Mike B]

Jerry,

If you have pictures of your conversion and the finished product, please post them or e-mail them to me for posting. The more the merrier!

[Viperklr]

New to this forum and very interested in this thread. You all may want to Google "Formula Hayabusa" and check out what Suzuki came up with back in 2001 or 2002. If I'm not mistaken they are running a series in Malaysia with them and I think they may have brought one over to Road Atlanta for a PR drive. I don't think they ever sold any in the US.

Thanks..I really am enjoying this site.

Joe

[preform resources]

Hey guys check out leppan's busa powered Jedi theres supposed to be two of them next month at waterford hills one for Butch Cassaday and the other for Robert Leppan Jr,they both have a few laps in one of the cars and got down to 1:07,I expect an all out track record will fall next month.http://preformresources.com/preform_gallery.htm The pix are on the second page of the Jedi DSR gallery

Dave Craddock

[btjsb9]

just a stupid little question

what happened to the formula 1000 site?

it seems to be gone????

[Mike B]

www.formula1000.com

[size=2][/size]
[size=2]Works fine for me.[/size]

[btjsb9]

www.formula1000.com

[size=2][/size]
[size=2]Works fine for me.[/size]

huum, not the same url i had, it was way complicated, but i guess that was my mistake

oooopps

thanks

[carnut169]

frame is painted:

[carnut169]

[preform resources]

Sean, I like the way they triangulated the rear rocker arm pivots and mounted the post in double shear,I forgot who you said did the eng/fab work on your car,it looks great.
Dave Craddock

[Mark H]

But hey he is missing a front shock?&%$#@+??? :wink:

Must be trying to save weight?

[carnut169]

Thanks.

Crutchfield Racing did the work on the chassis (from firewall-back is new), but everything in black came directly off a 96 Van Diemen.
I took it back up to Crutchfield this morning and should have a runner (not a roller) in a couple weeks.

I will be sure to post some photos then.

[Gator]

are these cars safe to run in the rain? from looking at the pictures, i assume there is no rear engine cover.

[carnut169]

There will be a rear engine cover. In fact, you won't be able to tell it from a FC!

[RussMcB]

are these cars safe to run in the rain?

Depends on who's driving.

[Mark H]

And if you have time to bolt on wets before the race!

[Gator]

thanks, i am in my first year taking part in Formula SAE at University of Florida and the car i am helping make has a 600 honda RR engine in it. The car comes out more like a go cart because they autocross it, but its along the same lines you guys are going. consequently they have no engine cover, thus my question. thanks again

[formulasuper]

There will be a rear engine cover. In fact, you won't be able to tell it from a FC!

Oh? What about those oversized wheels & tires I saw one day in the back of your truck?

[Viperklr]

Kawasaki has just unveiled a ZX-14 with an estimated 200 RWHP. The new 2006 Yamaha R-6 motor revs to 17.5K. While a 600 may be a bit small for these cars, it still shows where the technology is headed tomorrow on the bigger mills. If the ZX-14 is any indication of trends, we will probably see shots being fired in retaliation by Suzuki (Hayabusa long overdue for a freshening). I would even think some of the ex-Superbike liter class V-Twins (RC51 and TL1000R) would make interesting and now relatively inexpensive powerplants with real nice torque curves to boot.

While I am new to this type of racing I am really floored at the continued use and re-use of engines that spent their life at one time at the non exploding end of a Pinto. With the costs I am reading about for rebuilding these motors and the frequency needed for "freshening", why is there such a reluctance (perceived opinion on my part) to move on to more modern available, and cheaper powertrains? What am I missing?

[carnut169]

Could not agree more. Main reluctance is that there are no cars (currently) to race against. No national class.


I am picking mine up on Friday!

[Viperklr]

Sean,

The pictures of your car look great. Good luck shaking it down. I am looking at a CFC car on a trip to Atlanta later this week that is powered by a GSXR1100 (originally homologated with it). My objective is to run Solo2 in B Modified class for a year or two and I just don't think a Pinto/Hewland will make enough power to be competitive against the DSR's with the R1's.

Have you seen or heard about anyone considering a Japanese or European V-Twin vs. an inline 4? Certainly narrow but maybe hard to package the front cylinder/exhaust? Would certainly sound different!

Sure would be nice if SCCA got with the times. I can understand not wanting to make a particular engine/transmission obsolete all at once, but with the expense of rebuilds on both the current parts, the added costs to switch would not be that substantial right?

[formulasuper]

I just returned from the SARRC SIC weekend at Roebling Road where I talked to several F500 (my original racing class) racers that had attended the Runoffs. They said during the Runoffs week some SCCA officals had talked to a long time key member of the F500 racing community stating the SCCA wants to replace the F500 class with a formula car chassis using motorcycle engine/transmission. I will be contacting this individual (a good friend of mine) for all the details. Some of the info was they want a spec chassis built to blue print & we could buy the blue prints & build our own chassis. Also, they want to use FC wheels & tires, solid axle, low cost spec shocks & chain drive. I'll post more info as I get it. This could get interesting.

[carnut169]

[size=2]Is that a fat lady I hear singing in the background? By Sunday she will look just like a garden variety FC![/size]