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Thread: Won't Start

  1. #1
    Contributing Member racer27's Avatar
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    We just installed our rebuilt moter in the car and can't get it to start. It was built by a respected engine builder and before we go back to ask him for help, was wondering if anyone had any advice.

    We got good spark at the plugs...
    Engine turns over well...
    Float level is OK & looks like it's pumping fuel...
    We think the timing is close...

    The best we are able to get is a backfire thru the Carb & Exhaust...

    We also have a secondary probem where for some reason the new clutch is not grabbing the resurfaced flywheel enough to me to spin the flywheel, when in gear with one rear wheel jacked up. One we get it started, we'll address that issue.
    AMBROSE BULDO - Abuldo at AOL.com
    CURRENT: Mid Life Crisis Racing Chump/Lemons Sometime Driver (Dodge Neon)
    CURRENT: iKart Evo Rotax 125 Kart
    GONE: CITATION 87/93 FC - Loved that car
    GONE: VD RF-85FF , 1981 FIAT Spider Turbo

  2. #2
    Contributing Member bob darcey's Avatar
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    Sounds like the timing is off. If you are running points, this static timing method may help:

    1. Take off the valve cover and move the engine until No. 1 cylinder is on the compression stroke (both valves closed, piston moving up).
    2. Continue rotating untill your full advance mark on the flywheel (~38 degrees BTDC) lines up with the pointer.
    3. Remove the distributor cap and disconnect the low voltage wire from the negative post on the coil; connect a continuity (ohm) meter from the engine block to the low voltage wire. At this point, the ohm reading should be about zero, since the points are still closed.
    4. Grab the rotor with your left hand and turn it counter-clockwise (CCW) against the advance mechanism and hold it there.
    5. Grab the distributor housing with your right hand and rotate it until the points just start to open, as indicated by the meter. There is a groove (or mark) cut into the top edge of the distributor housing; the groove corresponds to No. 1 cylinder, and it should be lined up with the tip of the rotor, preferably past the midway point of the rotor or near the trailing edge (remember that the rotor is rotating CCW). If the mark is not lined up with the tip of the rotor, remove the distributor, rotate it a tooth or two and try again. When you have it exactly right, the mark will be near the trailing edge of the rotor tip and the meter will flicker simply by bearing on the rotor left-to-right.
    6. Tighten the distributor housing down and replace the wires, cap and valve cover.

    This procedure times the engine at full advance, which is really the only setting to care about. It also verifies that the cap and rotor are in phase, and that the advance mechanism is working. A test light with power source can be used in place of the meter. If you have electronic ignition, the same approach works except you leave the low voltage wiring on and connect a spark plug to the center post of the coil, then watch for when the spark jumps.

    Hope that all helps.
    There is a glitch in the continuum...

  3. #3
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    As far as the clutch goes, if you had the flywheel resurfaced, did you also machine the flywheel to maintain the step?
    John

  4. #4
    Contributing Member Todd TCE's Avatar
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    No mark on that flywheel that matches Bobs comments? Maybe it was put in on a different bolt pattern? Not all cars have a dowel added.

    Run the test as Bob suggests with a screw driver down the #1 hole and feel the piston come up to TDC. Yea, I know, it works. Do it carefully. Mark the flywheel if not marked. Now look to see if the rotor as he says is pointing to #1 wire (on the Bosch that 'should' be the mark in the dist housing too) this will get it close enough to start.

    The clutch may also be related to the push rod on the side if it is not re adjusted as needed. Anular releases may need some more travel in the pedal.

  5. #5
    Contributing Member Rick Kirchner's Avatar
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    And when you are sure the timing's close, make sure the motor's cranking over fast enough. I had this same problem on the FC two weeks ago. Slow, but not that slow crank, barf through the carb, etc. Put the car on a jump battery, cranked it twice as fast, and it fired right up.

    I guess if the mixture lights off soon enough BTDC, it will just push the piston back down, and will barf out the carb when the intake valve opens.

  6. #6
    Contributing Member Garey Guzman's Avatar
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    Personally, I'd talk to the engine builder right away. If he's a respected engine builder as you say, he should be more than happy to walk you through a diagnosis.
    Was the engine dynoed? If so, I'd say the problem is on your car. A weak coil may seem to have spark but might not start the car. Changing it out won't take much time.
    Garey Guzman
    FF #4 (Former Cal Club member, current Atlanta Region member)
    https://redroadracing.com/ (includes Zink and Citation Registry)
    https://www.thekentlives.com/ (includes information on the FF Kent engine, chassis and history)

  7. #7
    Contributing Member DaveW's Avatar
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    The distributor was probably installed at a different angle than it came out. Follow Mr. Darcey's instructions and you'll get it lined up (timing set) correctly.
    Dave Weitzenhof

  8. #8
    Contributing Member racer27's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input on the no-start problem. The engine builder said to bring it down this afternoon. I sensed he knew exactly waht the probelm was, something about having to changes some wires in the Distributor. I'll post the outcome later this eve. I appreciate all the help.

    Once we get it started, we'll look at trouble shooting the clutch problem. Looks like we'll have to pull the engine again to address that. Pulling should take ohly an hour or less (Reinstalling is tougher). I'm sure the info provided will mean alot to my mechanic. I'll let you know hoew it goes.

    Anyone fromn here doing March/April test days at LRP or NHIS?

    Thx...
    AMBROSE BULDO - Abuldo at AOL.com
    CURRENT: Mid Life Crisis Racing Chump/Lemons Sometime Driver (Dodge Neon)
    CURRENT: iKart Evo Rotax 125 Kart
    GONE: CITATION 87/93 FC - Loved that car
    GONE: VD RF-85FF , 1981 FIAT Spider Turbo

  9. #9
    Contributing Member Bill Kincaid's Avatar
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    Ha, bet I know! Made that mistake as a rookie first time I rebuilt my engine. The firing order is 1-2-4-3, NOT the usual 1-3-4-2.

  10. #10
    Contributing Member racer27's Avatar
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    The builder got it started in about 5 min ... Not sure what he problem was... most likely incorrect wire order or dist was rotated 180 deg. Relieved it was something simple.

    Now to pull the engine and figure out why there is no pressure against the flywheel.

    Once that's addressed, prime the oil system start it up, and follow Jake's break-in instruction.

    Thx for the help..
    AMBROSE BULDO - Abuldo at AOL.com
    CURRENT: Mid Life Crisis Racing Chump/Lemons Sometime Driver (Dodge Neon)
    CURRENT: iKart Evo Rotax 125 Kart
    GONE: CITATION 87/93 FC - Loved that car
    GONE: VD RF-85FF , 1981 FIAT Spider Turbo

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