ICP set up course on microcassette

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10.30.23, 9:24 PM
Purple Frog

ICP set up course on microcassette

Sportsfans,

This is an amazing one-of-a-kind rare find. I just discovered in the shop at Purple Frog Racing World Headquarters a set of 9 Sony microcassettes that contain the recording of the world famous ICP Car set-up course held in Atlanta Georgia some 20 plus years ago. (probably 2003 We attended twice; 2003 and 2004.)

Where else in the world can you hear Steve Lathrop and Richard Pare explain racecar handling and set-up to the Nth degree. Over 800 minutes of detailed instruction. ?And, as an extra bonus, you can hear the dumb questions the likes of Carnut169, Purple Frog, Court Dowis and others asked of the esteemed instructors. Recorded live by Carnut169, these tapes may have never been played. And they won't be played at Purple Frog Racing because we have no device on which to play these magnificent recordings.

So here is the deal. I can't see just tossing them into the dumpster. I will ship them free of charge to an interested party.**

** please note: One exception. If either Steve or Richard request the tapes I may chose to give them first right of refusal.
10.30.23, 10:07 PM
Garey Guzman

..
10.30.23, 11:34 PM
Rick Kirchner

convert to digital and put on youtube
10.31.23, 12:03 PM
Spengo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Kirchner

convert to digital and put on youtube

Definitely interested to hear it, I can do the conversion to digital if you like. The equipment is pretty inexpensive though if you want to do it yourself.
10.31.23, 3:39 PM
R. Pare

You can send me the tapes, but I have no idea how to convert it!

Really, the course was for beginners, so I'm skeptical about how valuable it is for anyone more advanced.

I will say, we did have fun giving the course as we got to meet a lot of really good guys!
10.31.23, 4:05 PM
Purple Frog

Richard is way too humble. After decades of racing I have met many that have no understanding of the content of the course. Yes, basic for a true race engineer... but advanced for most club racers.

I just paged through the notebook they handed out....
10.31.23, 6:43 PM
R. Pare

Well, it would be interesting to hear just what we gave in that course (and how dated it could be in some areas!), so if you want to send it to me, I'll see what I can do to get it converted ( if someone already has the way to do it, let me know!), and I'll figure out somewhere to post it if anyone is actually interested.
10.31.23, 6:48 PM
BeerBudgetRacing

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Pare

You can send me the tapes, but I have no idea how to convert it!

Really, the course was for beginners, so I'm skeptical about how valuable it is for anyone more advanced.

I will say, we did have fun giving the course as we got to meet a lot of really good guys!

Aren't we looking for beginners to grow numbers and to somehow safekeep knowledge?
(On that note the Lamont FF book for $100 is ridiculous. It should be shared to attract more drivers. Anyone have a digital copy)

Send the tapes to Spengo to convert and post online !
10.31.23, 7:02 PM
Spengo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Frog

Richard is way too humble. After decades of racing I have met many that have no understanding of the content of the course. Yes, basic for a true race engineer... but advanced for most club racers.

I just paged through the notebook they handed out....

For video it would also be good to scan the notebook and sync up the pages with the audio recording.
10.31.23, 7:03 PM
Rick Iverson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Frog

Sportsfans

The Great Santini
10.31.23, 7:06 PM
Rick Iverson

Gents:

The copyrights belong to ICP.

But I would love to have a digital copy. Let’s get it figured out.
10.31.23, 7:15 PM
R. Pare

Question: Are these video or just audio?
10.31.23, 7:23 PM
Spengo

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Pare

Well, it would be interesting to hear just what we gave in that course (and how dated it could be in some areas!), so if you want to send it to me, I'll see what I can do to get it converted ( if someone already has the way to do it, let me know!), and I'll figure out somewhere to post it if anyone is actually interested.

A simple device like this is all you need (plus a player for the tapes of course). https://www.amazon.com/Capture-Recor.../dp/B00RN13JUM With this you can record the audio on your PC using free software such as Audacity. The same device can be used for video digital conversion.
10.31.23, 8:50 PM
jcolley

I'd love a digital copy of that!
10.31.23, 11:09 PM
Purple Frog

I have the CDs handed out at the course. But they are most likely protected by ICP copyright. Unless Richard or Steve decide to release them.
I also have the ~100 page handouts. But realize we "bought" those back then, and I don't want to step on Richard or Steve's rights.

They did give us permission in the class to Audio record it. That's all these tapes are. For Richard, Steve and those of us in the class they might be informative, or humorous as we dummies asked stupid questions.

I don't have the time or desire to convert them to a modern format. But folks like Garey are offering. I would like to get a copy to Richard because he will get quite a laugh out of it.

All that said... The course was/is superior. I wish many more could experience it. It is a costly deal, what with travel, lodging, and Richard and Steve being worth $300/hour. It was life changing for me. I credit it with me going on to win a divisional championship soon after attending.

If nothing else... remember: stiffer is faster.
11.01.23, 1:32 PM
R. Pare

I'd have to look, but I believe that I lost the handout when my computer got hacked a few years ago (my design computer is no longer connected to the internet because of that!). Thankfully I had CD backups of my drawing files at least. It would be interesting to see again just what we came up with in the book.

$300 an hour??? Don't I wish!! By the time we paid for everything, we maybe netted $500 for most courses!

Nothing got copyrighted, so legally I guess you can do whatever you want with everything, BUT it would be nicer if Steve also agrees.

If you send me the tapes, I'll get them converted, but it may take a while with how dammed busy I am already -plus skiing season is coming up! :p I already have an offer from someone to host them on a website.
11.01.23, 2:05 PM
Purple Frog

Richard, I sent you a PM
11.01.23, 2:17 PM
R. Pare

Got it.
11.01.23, 2:34 PM
TimH

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Pare

Nothing got copyrighted, so legally I guess you can do whatever you want with everything, BUT it would be nicer if Steve also agrees.

I'm no lawyer, but I believe anything you created is protected under copyright whether you registered it or not.
11.01.23, 3:02 PM
R. Pare

Looked it up - yup, you are right.

Now to see what Steve says.
11.01.23, 5:47 PM
R. Pare

Steve says OK, so we'll see what we can do.It will take a while, though!
11.01.23, 8:20 PM
bassracer

Sounds like something worth paying for; count me in for a copy either way.
11.02.23, 2:41 PM
Lee Johnson

I'm in for an authorized copy

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Pare

Steve says OK, so we'll see what we can do.It will take a while, though!

Put me on the list for an authorized copy whenever it is available. I'm interested in audio and/or the class notes (text, pix, etc.)

Thanks,

Lee Johnson
Near Taos, NM
Leejohnson1313@gmail.com
11.02.23, 6:46 PM
Rick Iverson

I’m in
11.02.23, 10:40 PM
DanW

Count me in, please.

Dan
11.03.23, 10:45 AM
Spengo

I'm in as well of course :tire:
11.03.23, 5:27 PM
R. Pare

OK- looks like this is going to go ahead, though it may be next summer before I get it ready ( I'm buried already for quite a while, and just got a couple more orders for my "One Armed Bandit" today)

So the question is, what does everyone think it is worth to them for the seminar? While I'm a nice guy (:ha:), I really do not like to work for free (nor does Steve)!
11.04.23, 4:10 PM
Purple Frog

Today I mailed to Richard Pare:

1 complete notebook as handed out in 2003
1 CD of the course as handed out in 2003
9 microcassettes with who knows what recorded on them.

I did find a receipt for the course. One of the best $300 I spent in racing. :thumbsup:
11.04.23, 7:06 PM
Rick Iverson

Dude, thx.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Frog

Today I mailed to Richard Pare:

1 complete notebook as handed out in 2003
1 CD of the course as handed out in 2003
9 microcassettes with who knows what recorded on them.

I did find a receipt for the course. One of the best $300 I spent in racing. :thumbsup:
11.07.23, 1:25 PM
Lee Johnson

Seminar synopsis or outline?

Quote:

Originally Posted by R. Pare

OK- looks like this is going to go ahead, though it may be next summer before I get it ready ( I'm buried already for quite a while, and just got a couple more orders for my "One Armed Bandit" today)

So the question is, what does everyone think it is worth to them for the seminar? While I'm a nice guy (:ha:), I really do not like to work for free (nor does Steve)!

Richard & Steve --

It would help me (& most interested racers) estimate the value of the seminar/class if you could make a synopsis/outline/description available. Perhaps there is something available from when you did the original seminars (that could be updated as appropriate). That would give a good overview of the content & value.

Thanks,
Lee
11.07.23, 9:50 PM
Purple Frog

Here is a somewhat brief overview:

First, you get a home study section to learn before the actual course. Approximately 70 pages of technical vocabulary, terms, explanations. All of which is gone over again during the course. But, it really helps to get somewhat up to speed beforehand.

There are even suggested reading of certain sections of four (4) of Carroll Smith's books.
Drive to Win, Prepare to Win, Tune to Win, Engineer to Win

They review this material at the start of the class, but with the intent to answer the student's questions about that read material, not to go back over it.

Wheelbase and Track
Ride Height and Rake
Roll and Pitch
Camber
Caster, trail and offset
King Pin Inclination
Travel Arcs effected by Kingpin inclination and caster
Geometric and actual Roll Centers
Roll Axis Line
Camber gain in bump
Why control camber gain?
Roll, and weight transfer
Braking and weight transfer
Anti-dive and Anti-squat
Jacking effects
Roll couple and roll couple balance
Tire Spring Rates
Tire pressure and the contact patch
Motion ratios
Spring rates
Wheel rates
Slip angles
Understeer and Oversteer
Lateral force vs. slip angle
Yaw
Ackerman Steering
How to calculate Ackerman
Calculating CG
Friction Circle Theory

Then....
There are set-up sheets,
set-down sheets,
run sheets,
job lists,
driver briefing sheets,
handling debrief,
mechanical debrief,
Chassis data sheets,
Listing of "at track procedures",
Handling analysis flow guide,
How to breakdown a complete lap:
straight line speed
braking
corner phases
acceleration
transitions
transients

Then of course.....a shock absorber section;
compression
rebound
tuning
adjustments
reading dyno graphs
damping curves
external adjustments
internal adjustments
shim stack theory
hysteresis
damping function
yadda
yadda
yadda

OK.... after you get all that... then they introduce about 190 slides, each one meant to start a discussion or teaching moment.

So...... that's a brief overview of the course as we took it. Obviously we were dense, because we took it a second time. :o

There is a lot more to the course, but i got tried of typing.
11.07.23, 10:15 PM
Purple Frog

If you could get them to give the course again say, in February, Steve would probably want to do it at Sarasota Beach, and Richard would want to do it in Breckenridge. LOL
11.08.23, 8:21 AM
Bobsy SR 6

ICP set up course

I’m in for sure! While some may say the info is dated, for those of us racing vintage cars the info is absolutely applicable and invaluable.

looking forward to seeing it
Tom
11.08.23, 10:00 AM
TimH

My head is already exploding...
11.08.23, 12:31 PM
R. Pare

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Frog

If you could get them to give the course again say, in February, Steve would probably want to do it at Sarasota Beach, and Richard would want to do it in Breckenridge. LOL

Naaa - give me Sugarloaf in Maine, or Whiteface in Lake Placid.
12.21.23, 2:37 AM
Richard Hybels

The course

I just stumbled onto this thread. I took the seminar near the San Francisco Airport around 20 years ago. Near 80 years old now and can’t remember a thing now but I just got a platen and scales so would be pleased to pay whatever is asked for the tapes etc.
I do remember s good time was had by all and the only seminarian I remember was a guy named Trout for obvious reasons.