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Anyone have any general comments on whether these a good thing or not?
I like the idea of simplified installation (hose runs etc) and quicker oil warm up (since apparently the water heats the oil initially) - but am concerned about "adjustability" until I get the system balanced. At least with separate water-to-air and oil-to-air coolers one can adjust the air flow separately.
Application is a vintage Atlantic being converted to sportsracer so there is plenty of real estate on each side.
I've been very happy to have a Setrab oil/water heat exchanger (14" model IIRC) in my Toyota FA. Heating the oil quickly is the great benefit. When your water is hot, the oil temp is just a little bit behind, but your ready to use the engine hard at the start of a race!
This idea works when you have excess cooling capacity in the water radiator, otherwise I imagine it would serve to overheat your water and the oil too. So, in the case of marginal water cooling capacity it would be good to have both a heat exchanger and a separate oil cooler to which you could regulate airflow.
In the Reynard the heat exchanger alone worked perfectly and simplified plumbing and reduced overall weight. I'm a fan!
PS The heat exchanger was inline with the scavenge oil return to the tank. Depending on your desired oil temp, plumb the water on either the hot or cooler side of the radiator.
Randy
One slight downside... when/if you frag a motor, it's that much more expensive to replace the cooler. Living through a bit of that right now. :(
OTOH, since you're converting an Atlantic, you're probably not gonna move to a bike motor, so you'll probably be OK. ;)
Vaughn,
Good point.
I haven't dissected a Setrab but had the possibly mistaken idea that the flow paths were reasonably open for both water and oil. The water passages are certainly easily cleanable but the oil paths are not visible and could retain junk. I've blown up a couple of Tototas over the years and reused the Setrab after a thorough rinse back and forth without trouble. Could be it does clean well or the magnets in my oil tank saved me, or just luck. As someone else quite properly notes: Your results may vary.
I'm considering the Laminova heat exchangers -- they are modular, and can be cleaned if you have a blow-up. The price is about the same as an oil cooler.
http://www.laminova.se/products/oil-coolers/
drawing showing how they are assembled/disassembled.
http://www.laminova.se/images/products/drw/SA00250.pdf
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...eat_Exchangers
I too was considering the Laminova, in part for that reason, till I heard some disappointing results on their efficiency (including an offer to buy one cheap!)...
My current setup is just a small oil cooler that's been jacketed with aluminum. Blew a motor at Mid-O, sent it out for ultrasonic cleaning... still had stuff come out!!!
Flushed clean again, and now will go together with a fresh motor; hoping to not see metal bits again anytime soon. If I do, I think it'll be time to pitch the heat exchanger and go back to normal air cooled.
If things stay together for the rest of the season, I'll pick up another oil-to-air cooler and build it a jacket over the winter, so as to have a spare on-hand. Sucks to not simply be able to buy one and drop it in the car, but with planning that can be managed.
Oh, as for keeping the funk out of the cooler... not sure 'bout you guys, but I'm running a dry sump, so the cooler is the next stop for the shrapnel after it's honed-out the insides of my scavenge pump...
I have seen a nice little screen fitting for the inside of AN fittings that'll keep the large pieces out, though... won't protect my scavenge pump, but maybe it'll help keep the cooler clean... (scroll down)
http://www.daileyengineering.com/accessories1.htm
Vaughn,
I'd love to see a photo of your jacketed oil cooler construction. I have an idea of how I'd do it but I'd prefer to build on your success, if I decide to make one.
Thanks,
Randy
The best way to tune the oil/water cooler is to run 100% of oil through it and to run the coolant as a bypass. You can adjust the amount of coolant with valves or restrictors, or go to 100%. That is how the similar coolers in my diesel engines both work, although the percentage of bypass is fixed. (8V-71 Detroit and 6.0 PSD Ford, fwiw). If I toast an engine the oil cooler is quickly and easily cleaned following the flotation test. I just install a new one, it's just a cost of doing business.
Brian
I have use oil/water heat exchangers for decades on all the cars I build. I think they are a necessity.
I recommend that you run the exchanger on the pressure side of the oil system. This is the most efficient place because you are not passing air and oil through the exchanger.
I first started with the Modine exchanger that was used in conjunction with an oil filter. Ford supplied these exchangers with the Zetec engine packages for F2000.
With the Ford Pinto and Kent engines, I would use water from the core plug in the back of the head and pass it through the heat exchanger and then to the cross over pipe between the 2 radiators in the car. I used -6 lines for the water.
C & R is a good source for heat exchangers. They have several options. For many years I had Jerry Weeks build heat exchangers by welding a tank around Earls or Setrab oil coolers.
On my cars, the oil would reach a temperature about 20 degrees above the water temperature and stay there.
That seems an incredibly small amount of water to cool the oil. The cross-sectional area of a -6 hose is about 1/10 that of a typical water hose. Not suggesting the actual flow would necessarily be 1:10 but I'm still shocked at how little water flow you used. Is it really sufficient?Quote:
Originally Posted by S Lathrop
Comment? Confirmation? Thx.
The Modine heat exchanger was not all that large. I worked very well. It also improved valve life by reducing the head temperatures at the back of the cylinder heads on the Kent and Pinto engines.Quote:
Originally Posted by dereklola
Steve,
I have looked high and low for a while now to source the oil filter position Modine coolers you are talking about with nothing but bad luck.
Is there a source for them?
Would like to have a spare just in case it is needed at the track.
Quicksilver or Steve KnappQuote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
Sorry for the late reply... I don't really have any pics of the construction of mine, as I bought 'em used on here. They're basically just a typical (probably Setrab) oil-air cooler with a jacket and ports... I do have a pic or two of them installed, if that's of any help...
OK, here's one pic of them before install or mods...
Vaughan - yours look to have "full size" water connections - do you in fact send the full water circulation through them (or is there just one on the car?). I'm asking because I was quite surprised at Steve's comment about only using a -6 water connection. Derek
I used exchangers like Vaughan's in place of the cross over pipe between the 2 radiators in our systems. I also used the system where we just bled off water from the cylinder head and sent it through an exchanger before going to the radiators. Either system works just fine. Available space is what we used to determine which we would use.
Correct, they're fairly "full-size". They could be less. I've modded it substantially since then (one died with a poorly-directed drillbit went through the core)... that's a pic from the orig seller.
Currently inlet port is 1", outlet is 1.25" - to easily match up w/ the rest of my system plumbing, which is all 1.25" - note that the rad is up front, and on a little (1.0L) bike motor, so we want to give it lots of chance to pump easily enough.
I also run a coolant bypass on it now, another 1.25" tube completely around the cooler and direct to the rad, for better/happier flow/cooling. So the cooler's definitely living with less than 1/2 of the flow.
Originally all water went through the cooler, but the flow was inadequate and adding the bypass was part of fixing my (water) cooling problems.
Vaughan, Steve - thx.
I'm renovating a 2L CanAm car with Cosworth BDG - about 280 hp). It originally had a separate oil/air cooler but thinking about the advantages quoted for the oil/water set-up I'm now pondering going that way. My first thoughts on Steve's -6 water connection (even if I upped it to -8) were "Will that give sufficient oil cooling?" and "Will I need double water rads?" Fortunately I've got lots of room inside the empty side pods either side of the Atlantic tub - we'll see. Thx.
Sounds like a fun toy!
FWIW, I'm only up in Royal Oak... so if you wished to stop by and check things out first hand, you'd be welcome. Of course, the engine is once again in pieces right now, but will be going back in before the end of the month...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Demeter
I just came across this (while looking for something else of course) -
- http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-...i4-pr6630.html
Love the spelling - they don't speak much English in England these days.