A Bazillion Questions

Gents;

I was thinking about this. Considering a simulator (flown some serious equipment), but have no clue as to where to start for racing.

Suggestions as to where to start:

• Operating system;
• Software;
• Pedals;
• Steering box;
• Steering wheel;
• Shifter (non paddle);
• Frame or monocoque;
• Screen(s).

I would like all price options, but I want the best experience, meaning I want the best equipment (read: not necessarily the most expensive).

Incidentally, Happy New Year. But it appears as though it will be “business as usual”. Stay safe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Iverson

Gents;

I was thinking about this. Considering a simulator (flown some serious equipment), but have no clue as to where to start for racing.

Suggestions as to where to start:

• Operating system;
• Software;
• Pedals;
• Steering box;
• Steering wheel;
• Shifter (non paddle);
• Frame or monocoque;
• Screen(s).

I would like all price options, but I want the best experience, meaning I want the best equipment (read: not necessarily the most expensive).

Incidentally, Happy New Year. But it appears as though it will be “business as usual”. Stay safe.

---

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Suggestions as to where to start:

• Operating system;
• Software; Rfactor 2, ACC, iRacing (most cost)
• Pedals; - Lots of options, but Fanatec CSL Elite, or Club Sport very good options - can spend much more if you like
• Steering box; Fanatec Direct Drive is one option (very cost effective, but questionable ship date...)
• Steering wheel; - Lots of options if you are using Fanatec, I use the BMW GT3, but tons of options....
• Shifter (non paddle); - I use paddles, so no advice there
• Frame or monocoque; - Several good sim cockpits on the market - I currently am using Minneer Racing Wheel Stand - can find it on Amazon.
• Screen(s). Depends on whether you want triples or single screen. I currently use 40" Sony TV monitor and works great.

Aaron

Context:

I've been out of the sim-racing world since about 2013.
Previously I was in league racing with iRacing, netkar Pro, GTR1 & 2, and some others.
People more in tune can give some more updated information, but I'm using your post as an exercise because I feel I'm on the verge of getting back in the game some for all the conveniences related to simracing, and hopefully this will generate constructive discussion.
That said, Here's my input on below:

• Software & Operating system (And computer hardware... that's important too): Current options include iRacing.com (a subscription service ~$150/year) Assetto Corsa (~$4 one-time? available through Steam), Automobilista, and others (Is RFactor/Rfactor 2 still a thing?). There may be more. All the common commercial simulators are Windows compatible. You will want to explore the software you want to determine 32-bit vs. 64-bit. You will also want to ensure that both your Internet Connection and Computer Hardware EXCEED the minimum software requirements. I can add an entire section related to my experiences building computers (and alan's advice below is spot-on) so I'll let you ask if you want that information. Last system I built didn't have adequate cooling to survive more than a 30 minute race, so think about where you put your rig/and airflow to the cooling fans.

• Steering box, Steering wheel; Shifter (non paddle); Pedals; Accessories, etc.: When I get back in I'm going with Fanatec. I previously raced on Logitech which felt like a mass-produced-in-China feel that is good enough for kids. Others may disagree. There are other options, Thrustmaster comes to mind. Most of the stuff nowadays may be compatible with Xbox/PS5 if that means anything. You will be able to find non-paddle shifters at Fanatec and others. Look for a load-cell brake system. Logitech I think still uses a potentiometer on the brake - this advice is tailored to my assumption that you are going from real cars to sim racing. When I was getting started with no experience at all, My logitech pedals had a potentiometer, so I was young and just got used to it, but its not the same at all as a real vehicle.

• Frame or monocoque; This is mostly personal preference and can be as simple as an office chair, and desk to as much of a money pit as a motion-simulating rig. You will be putting considerable forces through your wheels and pedals, so this is why a lot of people move away from office desks on carpets into frames where things can't move or slide around. Its the same mentality as setting up your seat fitting and controls in real life except you aren't putting the rig over 3-5 gs worth of bumps. The force feedback wheels vibrations are a thing, but typically aren't as bad as real life road vibrations.

You can re-use an old crashed/obsolete race car chassis or build something out of wood if you have the fab capability, and the sky is the limit.

80/20 aluminum extrusion and other industrial erector set style frames are popular due to modularity and customization but also because they can be really stiffened up and keep your controls and visual cues from moving around too much. 80/20 advertises a CAD model and Bill of Materials for a generic design on their website - Its priced around 2k and you still have to buy the controls, seat, monitor, computer, etc.

Note: I don't personally recommend the motion systems out there that shake your seat or try to simulate lateral g's as the response time is typically too low and too dissimilar to actual cars, based on the last one I tried.

• Screen(s).: I don't have specific recommendations, but like the frame, the sky is the limit. If you just want to get started, I don't think you can go too wrong here if you acquire any kind of a flat screen computer monitor for the purposes of getting up and running. 24" is the minimum, bigger is better, because you won't just have visual screen space, you need to have all sorts of data taking up screen space as well. Gaming monitors, multi-monitor setups have purposes and nice to haves, and the first thing you will run into is monitor response time. Manufacturers advertise this as a specification these days, you typically want something in the 1-4 ms range... and once you start working down that path, there is a whole other rabbit hole about setting up your graphics cards to take advantage of that. You can find YouTube videos about that.

Hope that helps. Hope others chime in too.

Couple of disclaimers:
Hardware compatibility is part of the chore. Most things are pretty standard these days (monitors using Display Ports or HDMI interfaces, Controls are almost all USB. That said, You will probably need a power strip to hook up all these devices and ensure that you've got a way to plug it all in WITHOUT choking the data streams. through splitters and adapters.

I will also add that from my perspective having driven both real cars and sims, I personally think its much more difficult to go from Real World driving to Simulator driving... I base that on the fact that lots of steering wheels and controls try to mimic the force in the steering wheel with feedback systems that have a slight delay and the visuals you see on the monitor also are slightly behind what the CPU is putting out... when you couple that to the fact that you aren't getting similar feel through the seat of your pants, you'll have a learning curve in adapting your visual cues to how the game and your rig behave.

Don't let that stop you from getting into it, but do go into it eyes-wide-open that there will be a weird feeling of re-learning things you thought you knew and using different senses. And when you get to it, dealing with people (or kids) online is both fun, hilarious, but not without frustration. Still plenty of good time to be had at the click of a button.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Iverson

Gents;

I was thinking about this. Considering a simulator (flown some serious equipment), but have no clue as to where to start for racing.

Suggestions as to where to start:

• Operating system;
• Software;
• Pedals;
• Steering box;
• Steering wheel;
• Shifter (non paddle);
• Frame or monocoque;
• Screen(s).

I would like all price options, but I want the best experience, meaning I want the best equipment (read: not necessarily the most expensive).

Incidentally, Happy New Year. But it appears as though it will be “business as usual”. Stay safe.

---

Start with the software package (or packages) you want to run, and build out from there.

Once you know what software you want to use, then you can see what its minimum requirements, maximum capabilities, and compatible parts are.

For the actual computer, choose something that can be upgraded, but most can. If something on the computer can't be upgraded—mainly the CPU—then buy the fastest one you can afford. More RAM, more storage, and faster video cards can all be added down the road, but don't let what will always be an expensive part of the machine become a limiting factor.

• (Is RFactor/Rfactor 2 still a thing?). - Yes Rfactor 2 is very much so a thing!

Aaron

Sent you a PM -
Cheers - JIm

Gents;

Thank you for all the PMs and advice.

Learning curve is ballistic. And my research reveals there are Fellas out there with such elaborate poly-axis motion systems that defies belief - I mean, taking this SERIOUSLY.

Looking at the Sparko chassis and seat as a starting point. Thoughts?

I recently came across this site which has some pretty awesome (but pricy) simulators 2axis, 3axis, and 6axis!! (pitch, roll, yaw, surge, sway, heave)

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...d=101191&stc=1

https://dofreality.com/#h6

Be sure to check out what tracks are available for your platform. However, you can use multiple software offerings, and that isn't where the money goes. Pedals, wheels, and the computer are the big-ticket items, unless you add in a motion simulator, which is big money too.

I think this is all pretty much a mute point as you can't really get any decent computers and or wheels/pedals right now. I was looking at getting a new wheel and pedal setup and it will be well into real racing season before anything would arrive so kind of pointless.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Iverson

Gents;

Thank you for all the PMs and advice.

Learning curve is ballistic. And my research reveals there are Fellas out there with such elaborate poly-axis motion systems that defies belief - I mean, taking this SERIOUSLY.

Looking at the Sparko chassis and seat as a starting point. Thoughts?

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I've spent many many hours in my sim rig and consider it to be a "serious rig designed at finding the smart point on the $/realism scale" - if I had to generalize, I'd say my components are 25-50% more expensive than the next lower tier, but you'd have to spend 100-200% more to go up to the next tier.

My belief is that if your priorities should be:
1) a high quality rig (mount for your wheel/pedals/seat)
2) good quality pedals
3) the most applicable software to what you are trying to race

A higher end computer with a nicer video card that produces better quality visuals makes it more impressive and more immersive, but doesn't fundamentally change the physics or the touch points. It's more important to spend on pedals than your wheel base if your goal is lap time in the game.

Motion is 100% a waste of money unless you are going to spend a very significant amount on your overall rig - especially for open wheel/prototypes; in the real world, they don't pitch/roll very much and instead all the force is g-force, which you barely can replicate in a sim. Save the money and spend it on better components along the way.

There are lots of good rigs, but 80/20 aluminum rigs are generally the way to go for stiffness, appearance, and reasonable cost. The Sim Labs P1X is the gold standard (https://sim-lab.eu/shop/product/p1-x...ng-cockpit-533) - I, along with many others, have built a DIY version that uses the same materials but some of my own designs for brackets, etc to make it more practical to get locally.

For pedals - I am a big fan of Heuskinveld; I have their Sprints and really like them. I'd have to spend a LOT more to get any sort of upgrade but these were a huge improvement over the Fanatec CSL elites + Load cell I had before.

For wheel - IMO the obvious choice is the new Fanatec CSL DD + 180 upgrade. It's direct drive technology, reasonably priced, and from a reputable company. The Podium DD1/DD2 is way better, but 3-4x the price...

-Mark

Gents;

I was doing research on video cards (I have built computers with $150 video cards), and ran into this. Damn near had cardiac arrest.

I sense this is serious stuff here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Iverson

?Gents;

I was doing research on video cards (I have built computers with $150 video cards), and ran into this. Damn near had cardiac arrest.

I sense this is serious stuff here.

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There is a video card shortage so prices are at an all time high thats if you can even find one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Iverson

?Gents;

I was doing research on video cards (I have built computers with $150 video cards), and ran into this. Damn near had cardiac arrest.

I sense this is serious stuff here.

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I have a 2060 Super - it's good to run my ultrawide single monitor setup at close to full/maximum detail in iRacing. A 3090 FE is the card you need to run 8k virtual reality with max settings... aka super overkill for most.

-Mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lowside67

I have a 2060 Super - it's good to run my ultrawide single monitor setup at close to full/maximum detail in iRacing. A 3090 FE is the card you need to run 8k virtual reality with max settings... aka super overkill for most.

-Mark

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Mark;

My research reveals that although the cooling design appears to be quite robust on the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090, it is reported the board had major heat issues. Any concerns with the 2060 Super? And at a fraction of the cost.

Motion will cost a lot. And there is one more step beyond...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kib2cAtpFtA
This setup adds sway and yaw to the environment. Not quite "G" but realistic rotation perhaps. Warning it is an over one hour video, and is the price of 2 of those video cards!
NOTE: if you skip to the 55 minute point you can see the system in action on a split screen. Looks pretty cool.

From their page

Quote:

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Combines with V3 Motion Platform to provide sway, surge, roll, pitch, understeer, oversteer, powerslides/drifting, partial heave, vehicle and road effects as well as shunting

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Cheers - Jim

This would be a solid setup and relatively simple as its all within the same eco system

Fanatec
Wheel base: CSL DD
Wheel: BMW M2
pedals: V3 + break performance kit
CS SQ v1.5
CS Handbrake v1.5

PC: If you want to be able to play the latest games at highest settings in 4k, Id recommend getting a GF 3080 rocking at least a late i7 and 16GB

Its easy to go totally overboard when building simulators and spend far in excess of the above, here are mine
https://youtu.be/UdTpIzOZiGA
https://youtu.be/FXfjD40BOeQ