PFM vs Swift 08

?I am in the process of purchasing my first FA. Given my current budget, I had planned on going with a well sorted PFM and upgrading to a paddle shift kit and current aero. The PFM may not be competitive in the runoffs, but it seems competitive enough in my region to make it a fine way to get to know the class for a few seasons before moving up. A Swift 08 recently came on the market in my price range and I am wondering if it's worth the extra 15 grand compared to the PFM I am looking at.

I have seen a lot of posts comparing the PFM with the Swift 014/16, and it seems pretty clear those swifts are about 3 seconds faster on a 90 second track (so, pretty dominant). But I haven't been able to find much about how the PFM stacks up with a Swift 08.

You'll get numerous opinions, but two thoughts:
The extra $15k purchase is just the start of the extra spending you'll do on the 008.
Neither car will beat a decent driver in an 014 or 016.

Get the PFM, dont waste money on the paddles, run it and have fun.

I bought a 2009 PFM about 1 year ago, paid $33,500 for the car and $6000 for the spares package. I’ve had 4 track days with it and had a blast. I wanted to put the paddle shifters on mine too, but got talked out of it. My racing experience has solely been off-road, so this is a completely different animal.

After 4 track days I’m starting to get comfortable in the car, but there’s no way I’d enter into a race until after another 4 track days. If you are currently racing a Formula car, you may excel quicker than me.

My PFM has been a great car and fairly inexpensive for the track days.

Hope this helps.

I have 2 PFM's currently. Raced them in the Pro Mazda "Road to Indy" series 2015-17. I've recently upgraded both cars to paddles and would NEVER go back to sequential shifting. Whomever is telling you guys not to upgrade the cars is just plain wrong IMO. -Kevin

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Originally Posted by Extreme1

I bought a 2009 PFM about 1 year ago, paid $33,500 for the car and $6000 for the spares package. I’ve had 4 track days with it and had a blast. I wanted to put the paddle shifters on mine too, but got talked out of it. My racing experience has solely been off-road, so this is a completely different animal.

After 4 track days I’m starting to get comfortable in the car, but there’s no way I’d enter into a race until after another 4 track days. If you are currently racing a Formula car, you may excel quicker than me.

My PFM has been a great car and fairly inexpensive for the track days.

Hope this helps.

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I’m a member of a local track and have a track-side garage, so I do plenty of track days and will have plenty in the FA before first race in September (and have done track days in a friend’s FA already). But I’m trying to figure out how close the Swift 08 is to the 14/16s. Are they somewhere in between the 14/16s and PFMs? Or pretty close to the 14/16s? If the former, I’d probably just get the PFM and save the cash for operating costs. If they’re closer to a competitive swift, the extra 15 grand is probably worth it.

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Originally Posted by kflyer

I have 2 PFM's currently. Raced them in the Pro Mazda "Road to Indy" series 2015-17. I've recently upgraded both cars to paddles and would NEVER go back to sequential shifting. Whomever is telling you guys not to upgrade the cars is just plain wrong IMO. -Kevin

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Different strokes. I run an F1000 and a Radical SR3 with basic sequential and you couldn't give me a paddle shift for free.

SCCA try to level the playing field with a minimum weight based on chassis and engine combination however in my 008 carrying 195 lbs myself I can't get down to the designated minimum 1250 lbs. The 014/016 are more advanced cars and will run faster in my opinion, the 008 is closer to the PFM, but maybe that's just my lack of talent talking!

That said, SVRA class the 008 differently than the 014/016 and PFM so that says something to their perceived gap in performance. The 008 with a Toyota motor is classed with 'Formula Libre', the 014/016 & PFM as 'Contemporary Open Wheel'

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Originally Posted by kflyer

I have 2 PFM's currently. Raced them in the Pro Mazda "Road to Indy" series 2015-17. I've recently upgraded both cars to paddles and would NEVER go back to sequential shifting. Whomever is telling you guys not to upgrade the cars is just plain wrong IMO. -Kevin

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Which system did you install? Geartronics?

I have a PFM and bought the MME paddle shift system for about 5k with duties and freight.I have not installed it yet but I think it is the way to go.We have several cars in the SW that have this system and it seems to work pretty good.The PFM is by far the best car for speed versus costs for FA.The new rules should help the motors make 15-20 HP for not a lot of money. Get the PFM you can go faster for less money and less maintenance.

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Originally Posted by M.Sauce

I have a PFM and bought the MME paddle shift system for about 5k with duties and freight.I have not installed it yet but I think it is the way to go.We have several cars in the SW that have this system and it seems to work pretty good.The PFM is by far the best car for speed versus costs for FA.The new rules should help the motors make 15-20 HP for not a lot of money. Get the PFM you can go faster for less money and less maintenance.

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I think I’m sold on the PFM. What rule change are you referring to? What’s the engine change?

also, I’m having a weirdly difficult time to find basic info about the car, like wheel and tire sizes. I found the Star Mazda resources page that has some good stuff, but still no info on wheels and tires. The SCCA GCR only states tires can be 9f and 11r or 10f and 14-15r. What’s the wheel diameter and who makes the wheels? BBS?

Which tire setup is most popular? The 11, 14, or 15 rear tire? Also what are the tire size (aspect ratio) and brands? Hoosier or Goodyear slicks?

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Originally Posted by Rmag911

Which system did you install? Geartronics?

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Im interested in which system you chose too.

Geartronics. Trouble free for two years now.

If you want a tire that will be consistent all weekend Hoosier 43354 R55A front 43359 R55a rear.6-8 heat cycles with little or no drop off. Pirelli makes one too but it is good for only 3-5 heat cycles.
I have the MME Motorsport paddle shift system but I have not installed yet. Probably this summer.Several cars in the SW have this system and it works fine for about 1/2 the price of the Geartronics.

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Originally Posted by M.Sauce

If you want a tire that will be consistent all weekend Hoosier 43354 R55A front 43359 R55a rear.6-8 heat cycles with little or no drop off. Pirelli makes one too but it is good for only 3-5 heat cycles.
I have the MME Motorsport paddle shift system but I have not installed yet. Probably this summer.Several cars in the SW have this system and it works fine for about 1/2 the price of the Geartronics.

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thanks!

Have you heard of anyone using Avon tires? They're the only company I can find who makes a 14 or 15 inch wide rear slick for a 13 inch wheel. They're more rubber, so more expensive, but I wonder if the increased mechanical grip gets the PFM a little more in line with the swifts.

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Originally Posted by Rmag911

thanks!

Have you heard of anyone using Avon tires? They're the only company I can find who makes a 14 or 15 inch wide rear slick for a 13 inch wheel. They're more rubber, so more expensive, but I wonder if the increased mechanical grip gets the PFM a little more in line with the swifts.

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Hoosier, Pirelli, Avon, and Goodyear all make 13" FA sized tires.

However, if your idea is to increase the PFM's rear tire from a 13x11 to a 13x14, I think this is a misguided activity. That increase in tire size will make your car meaningfully slower in a straight line - both from increased mass to rotate as well as the significant uptick in drag from the exposed tire. Highly unlikely that a marginal increase in cornering ability in the handful of corners that are rear tire limited would offset this.

-Mark

mike is there a point Difference for pfm with manual sequential like I have and pfm with a paddle shift? I’m having my Hewland rebuilt and thinking of adding paddle shift.

jeff

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Originally Posted by M.Sauce

I have a PFM and bought the MME paddle shift system for about 5k with duties and freight.I have not installed it yet but I think it is the way to go.We have several cars in the SW that have this system and it seems to work pretty good.The PFM is by far the best car for speed versus costs for FA.The new rules should help the motors make 15-20 HP for not a lot of money. Get the PFM you can go faster for less money and less maintenance.

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