Wrenches - Brand Experience

So, I'm looking for some 'budget' wrenches to live full time in the trailer.
The parameters:
- Can't be total crap.
- Can't be SO pricey.
- Won't ruin my day (if I break one, lose one, lend one and never get back, or won't ruin fasteners)

I have been a craftsman loyalist. Had craftsman from the 1950s given to me as a kid (grandfather). Bought more over time.
Had a set go through a house fire. Dug 'em out of the ashes and Sears replaced every single piece.
I have US made ones in my box at home. But now they are chinesium and consider about the lowest brand out there.

Looking at GearWrench, Tekton, Milwaulkee and even Husky (which some rate better than craftsman)
Most have lifetime warranties.

What are you using a why?

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

So, I'm looking for some 'budget' wrenches to live full time in the trailer.
The parameters:
- Can't be total crap.
- Can't be SO pricey.
- Won't ruin my day (if I break one, lose one, lend one and never get back, or won't ruin fasteners)

I have been a craftsman loyalist. Had craftsman from the 1950s given to me as a kid (grandfather). Bought more over time.
Had a set go through a house fire. Dug 'em out of the ashes and Sears replaced every single piece.
I have US made ones in my box at home. But now they are chinesium and consider about the lowest brand out there.

Looking at GearWrench, Tekton, Milwaulkee and even Husky (which some rate better than craftsman)
Most have lifetime warranties.

What are you using a why?

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I have a mix of Craftsman, Snap-On, SK and Proto hand tools. What goes to the track with me is largely Craftsman and many of them over 40 years old.

I can't tell you the last time I needed to buy a basic hand-tool, other than that elusive 10mm socket. ;)

As to the extra set of tools to take to the track, hit up estate sales, Craigslist, garage sales, swap meets and buy used, but good quality hand tools.

Here's an ad on the SB Craigslist for a small Craftsman box and some assorted hand tools for $100. I spy some Danaher-era Craftsman, at least one Snap-On wrench and some crappy Alltrade. Go offer $80, sell the box for $50, get a small starter - track set going on the cheap! https://santabarbara.craigslist.org/...046286910.html

Craftsmen is what fills most of my toolbox.

Aaron

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

So, I'm looking for some 'budget' wrenches to live full time in the trailer.
The parameters:
- Can't be total crap.
- Can't be SO pricey.
- Won't ruin my day (if I break one, lose one, lend one and never get back, or won't ruin fasteners)

I have been a craftsman loyalist. Had craftsman from the 1950s given to me as a kid (grandfather). Bought more over time.
Had a set go through a house fire. Dug 'em out of the ashes and Sears replaced every single piece.
I have US made ones in my box at home. But now they are chinesium and consider about the lowest brand out there.

Looking at GearWrench, Tekton, Milwaulkee and even Husky (which some rate better than craftsman)
Most have lifetime warranties.

What are you using a why?

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I think there’s a lot of us in the USA craftsman camp-Where to go next. I’ve been slowly buying Carlyle as I need stuff. Seems to be smack in the middle between consumer grade and tool truck grade. Not cheap but still well below pro stuff. Napa frequently runs 10-20% specials too

I've never broken a HF tool. Buy the best tool you can....

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Originally Posted by crypt0zink

I've never broken a HF tool. Buy the best tool you can....

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Their Pittsburgh line is about as cheap as they come. Their ICON stuff is more than I'd want to pay at HF ! ;)
The reviews on ICON have been good but it is pricey (again, for my expectations of HF)

Take a look also at the black oxide finished wrench sets - they usually are less expensive than the chromed or fully polished ones.

I have a few wrenches by ProAmerica that seem to be decent quality, but I don't remember where in the price range they were.

Used to be OK with Craftsman stuff, but now that they are owned by someone else and made god only knows where, I'd be rather suspicious of them.

Kobalt stuff seems to be of good quality.

Craftsman now owned by Stanley

Kobalt looks good, but "no hassle" warranty can be a PITA

look out for Unconditional lifetime warranty that requires you to have the reciept

Often you can find the good stuff for a decent price at your local pawn shop.

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Originally Posted by R. Pare

Take a look also at the black oxide finished wrench sets - they usually are less expensive than the chromed or fully polished ones.

I have a few wrenches by ProAmerica that seem to be decent quality, but I don't remember where in the price range they were.

Used to be OK with Craftsman stuff, but now that they are owned by someone else and made god only knows where, I'd be rather suspicious of them.

Kobalt stuff seems to be of good quality.

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My research (not extensive) shows the current 'ownerships' as:

Stanley makes: Craftsman, Mac, Irwin, Proto, DeWalt
Apex Tools makes: Allen, Crescent, Delta, GearWrench, K-D, SATA, Nicolson, Wiss, Cleco,
HomeDepot: owns Husky (different pieces made by different manuf)

Husky makes SOME black finished stuff - I think they are a new line:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Lo...PCMS/306255894

The open end has the 4-contact style which may or may not improve actual use - but it's a sign of an effort to make something better.

On the something better front:
I've found 6-point and 12-point closed ends. I've found ratcheting closed ends.
Why are ratcheting closed end wrenches all 12-pt ? They should be 6-pt !

I love my SnapOn stuff. I have lots of Craftsman too. I’ve found much of it on CL, eBay, and garage sales all at good prices. Just have to look. I hit a good mine with a retiring shop tech selling his SnapOn stuff for pennies. If you aren’t in a hurry it can be found.

You didn't specify, but I am answering only about combination wrenches.

A while ago I did an "exhaustive" study of the major brands, cheap and expensive. Craftsman, GearWrench, SnapOn, MAC, some german brands, and so on. I bought the same 2 sizes of each brand, only brands and the specific models that had radiused flats (where the flats don't round off the fastener). The winner, by far: Proto.

I'd never bought Proto before. Apparently they are big in military as they have specialty finishes and retainment options (prevent FOD).

The GearWrench was the worst. Super light engraving (dot matrix style, so not part of the forge) that is impossible to read. Airfoil-esque shape that looks quite sexy but turns out it's murder on the fingers/palm. Poor tolerances. And I wanted to like them so bad but sorry, no.

Craftsman (are they alive?) had a nice take on the GW -- similar profile but with a 90* twist. So now it's more like a propeller than a wing. Very comfy and with the sleek chrome finish so easy to clean. I don't know why I otherwise didn't like it and still prefer proto.

The proto shank is squared but with a generous radius. The shanks are very thick as well. So they are very comfortable.

I went with the box ratchet (12 spline, hits the flats not the corners and bonus will work on splined fasteners) and open end (radiused). The ratchet is very tight and "fine toothed". I overstressed a small one and had to do a warranty exchange, which was painless but took a couple of weeks since it's a mail it in deal. I didn't have a receipt or anything, didn't call, just put the broken one in a tough envelope, crossed my fingers and got back a new one. Like craftsman of old.

BONUS: proto (the top line version that has the radiused flats) is MADE IN USA. Even SnapOn wrenches are not made in usa anymore. And the ones I tested were actual SnapOn, not BluePoint (their china brand).

After my testing I bought the entire range, metric and imperial.

I've been using them for I guess 2 years now and am as solidly happy with them as day one. I've bought more proto stuff since then. You can buy proto on zoro, and it's easy to game the zoro discount so if you don't need it today you can get large discounts.

One downside, the wrenches are on the long and thick side, so for a few fasteners (double nut typically but eg outer LCA nut) the proto can't reach. And that's where you really want the radiused flats. I bought a couple of one-offs of whatever other brand and modified as needed to fit. The thickness may be more to do with the box ratchet than inherent design. If you get the normal box I'll bet those are thinner and will fit in more places.

Craftsman, Snap-on, SK, Mac. Pawn shop, flea market, or swap meet....some estate and garage sales... For quick and cheap, HF good enough for 80% of needs...

Needed a really deep (min of 3.5"deep) 1 1/8" socket to remove nut on rear stub axle on RT5. Only option available was to make one... lucked out and found one already "made" buried in pile at local pawn shop for 5 bucks...(wonder who around here had gone broke, pawned his Ralt tools?) Worked great.

Next need a deep spanner end/socket wrench for KM6 nut on front hub. SKF had one at about $300 bucks retail, plus shipping. Extensive research looking for specs/pictures resulted: won't fit inside hub. Now making one out of junk Sprite rear axle housing end which had stripped.

Bob L.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

Why are ratcheting closed end wrenches all 12-pt ? They should be 6-pt !

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Because it's very expensive to make a durable fine tooth ratchet. 6-pt with coarse ratchet would suck. Best answer to this is the proto 12-spline box.

With apologies to the 35 and under crowd....

The boomers are dying off. Widows are downsizing, want to get rid of clutter. The kids? Can hardly hang a picture or change their own oil. hey'll pay someone to do that. if it doesn't come out of a screen they aren't interested.

Craftsman at estate sales has to be the best deal going.

When I graduated high school (yes, I did in fact get a diploma) since all I want to do was twist wrenches on race cars, my mom was thoughtful and bought me a rather elaborate complete set of Craftsman tools with a classy Craftsman tool box. It was probably the gift I appreciate more than any other I have ever received. A few years later they were all stolen out of the garage. (They call those rollaway tool boxes for a reason, you know.)

Guess where all those tools at the local hock shop come from?

I buy good tools for inside the house. The garage, the box I take to the track, and the building where I keep the Lola is a shrine to my title sponsor: Harbor Freight. If I need a quality tool, or one of my specialty tools, I trudge down into the basement where I keep them.

I hate thieves!

problem with all the older craftsman is that the radiused profiles that hit the flats instead of the corners are better now. that didn't exist back in that era.

Stanley owns more brands than you think.:

https://www.stanleyblackanddecker.co...ses/our-brands

I have bought used tools at estate sales, garage sales, craigslist too, particularly automotive service tools.

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Originally Posted by Zonker

Often you can find the good stuff for a decent price at your local pawn shop.

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Too much of that stuff has been stolen. I don't wish to contribute to the demand for stolen goods. Of course, likely because my home has been burglarized, and cars stolen twice.

backlit shot to show contact points using proto wrench. open end and 12-spline box ends. image quality isn't there but it's enough to get the idea.

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...id=89592&stc=1

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...id=89593&stc=1

https://www.apexspeed.com/forums/att...id=89594&stc=1

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Originally Posted by mousecatcher

backlit shot to show contact points using proto wrench. open end and 12-spline box ends. image quality isn't there but it's enough to get the idea.

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Thanks for this. You can certainly see the difference.

And these work correctly with 12-pt fasteners, right?

These seem to be different:
https://www.amazon.com/Blackhawk-Pro...%2C204&sr=1-12

These are described as fractional spline:
https://www.amazon.com/Proto-JSCV-9S...s%2C204&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.com/Proto-JSCVM-1...%2C204&sr=1-16

The old Craftsman tools my father gave me 20 years ago are great. The newer Craftsman that I have purchased myself are much poorer quality.

I have tried a variety on tools and keep going back to Snap-on. I swear 90% less and have far fewer busted knuckles using Snap-on tools compared to HF, Kobalt, Craftsman, etc.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

Thanks for this. You can certainly see the difference.

And these work correctly with 12-pt fasteners, right?

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yes, they work with 12 pt fasteners.

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

These seem to be different:

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The black chrome are not just a different finish, they are a different part. Not made in USA.

To Beer's original post.

A wise person one time told me how to build a toolset for the race trailer.
He said to do a complete frame up restoration on the car and as you do it leave every tool on the floor.
When you move the car to the trailer, the tools on the floor are the only ones that need to go.
It saves a lot of weight in the trailer.
No reason to be hauling tools hundreds of miles that you need to when you work on your D-6 Caterpillar.
I see so many guys with massive roll around tool boxes to work on a FF.
I always had a separate tool set for the trailer. Made loading and unloading easier.

good advice Frog. just one flaw: it doesn't satisfy the male need for TOOLS!! :ha:

eg, i just found this: https://www.amazon.com/Multi-purpose...=fsclp_pl_dp_3

I NEED IT

Go to a flea market there's always someone selling off their relatives tools . anything with made in USA on will be good quality ,don't worry about brand. I have all kinds of off brand wrenches I have been using for 50 years. Don't recall ever breaking one.

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Originally Posted by mousecatcher

good advice Frog. just one flaw: it doesn't satisfy the male need for TOOLS!! :ha:

eg, i just found this: https://www.amazon.com/Multi-purpose...=fsclp_pl_dp_3

I NEED IT

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Have one of those but have yet to use it. But I have only had a few years.

I just move the main tool box to the trailer for the summer. As the door to the trailer lines up with the back door to my garage, no big issue and no loading required.. Most of the "special" tools are left home in a different tool box.

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Originally Posted by Purple Frog

...No reason to be hauling tools hundreds of miles that you need to when you work on your D-6 Caterpillar...

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But, in my case, I do need the tools necessary to repair my 45-YO G30 Chevy Van if something breaks. Doesn't happen very often, but when it does, I dislike the idea of being stranded in the middle of nowhere...and it hasn't stranded us yet in all that time - it's tried, but never succeeded.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

But, in my case, I do need the tools necessary to repair my 45-YO G30 Chevy Van if something breaks. Doesn't happen very often, but when it does, I dislike the idea of being stranded in the middle of nowhere...and it hasn't stranded us yet in all that time - it's tried, but never succeeded.

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My experience is if you leave those tools at home it will break down. ;)
It's always the tool / parts box you decide not to take 'cause you never use it' that you need. :meatball:

Maybe a different tack. Get yourself a complete set of JH Williams tools. They'll cost you enough that you won't lose them or lend a 14mm combo wrench to folks without a set of wheels and tires as collateral. ;)

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Originally Posted by chuck cecil

Go to a flea market there's always someone selling off their relatives tools . anything with made in USA on will be good quality ,don't worry about brand. I have all kinds of off brand wrenches I have been using for 50 years. Don't recall ever breaking one.

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A lot of old people around here with estate sales selling tools for great prices.

Master Mechanic® (True Value® brand) are my hand tools of choice for the "traveling tools".
Strong, durable and VERY reasonably priced.

Plus...the Mrs. works for True Value & gets them for me at cost. :thumbsup:;)

Glenn

We have a lot of Carlyle tools around the shop since they sponsor Rossi. They are not far behind the Snap On stuff that is currently being produced.

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Originally Posted by Daryl DeArman

Maybe a different tack. Get yourself a complete set of JH Williams tools. They'll cost you enough that you won't lose them or lend a 14mm combo wrench to folks without a set of wheels and tires as collateral. ;)

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I got my first Williams wrench recently, to replace my Craftsman 17mm that went missing. Was a nice upgrade, if not as cheap as Craftsman. Similarly, before that I got a sweet and very complete set of their allen head and torx driver bits. My understanding is they're the same manufacturer as Snap-On - though not US-made, Hong Kong IIRC.

Much nicer, wider shank than the C-man (or Gearwrench, even worse!), much easier on the hand, with the 4-point contact deal on the open end - sound a lot like the Proto. A bit longer than the C-man, too, which isn't necessarily ideal... but hasn't been a problem yet.

I don't shop for much of anything at H-F; I just don't need that many hammers in my garage. 'Cause they all eventually end up that way. And their abrasives (cutting wheels etc) are so much weaker than any other I've found...

I have been surprised by the quality of some of the other off brands like Master Mechanic etc... quite suitable for a traveling box...

I did down-size one of my toolboxes this past season, after getting tired of the effort of loading and unloading the massive tool chest into and out of my van... much nicer, though I still bring virtually all my sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers and pliers in one main box...

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

My understanding is they're the same manufacturer as Snap-On - though not US-made, Hong Kong IIRC.

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The J.W. Williams stuff is a subsidiary of Snap-On but is their industrial line. I guess it may vary my particular tool, but much of it is better quality to their Snap-On branded items.

Snap-On's bluepoint line is their Import stuff. Not to say that none of the SnapOn stuff is imported.

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

I don't shop for much of anything at H-F; I just don't need that many hammers in my garage. 'Cause they all eventually end up that way. And their abrasives (cutting wheels etc) are so much weaker than any other I've found...

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Exactly, I have a motorcycle lift, a mini-press and some furniture pads that are theirs. That's it. My findings as well as everything abrasive they sell.

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Originally Posted by mousecatcher

backlit shot to show contact points using proto wrench. open end and 12-spline box ends. image quality isn't there but it's enough to get the idea.

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It seems Husky has some sockets called Universal Sockets
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-3-...DP34/207190304

The contacts look similar to the proto.

I recently bought a couple of Westward wrenches from Grainger as an experiment. They have a matte finish but feel decent, certainly better than HF. Of course they're Chinese but it's not obvious like HF. 95% of my toolbox is Craftsman because I irrationally prefer everything to match. Good tip on the Protos, though. That might be an option as Craftsman become harder to find.
HF tools have their place, such as modifying a wrench or welding it to something for an odd, single use. Their US General toolboxes, on the other hand are outstanding for the price.