help me with an F Mod autocross budget

I have seriously been interested in a mod car for a while, and an F mod checks all the boxes After getting a hit in a Kart this weekend (after about 3 years) i have very little interest in my Bstreet car. So its back to school again, i have owned several street and st cars, and for a while had a shifter kart. I have been doing this long enough to remember how many runs we would get out of rcomps before they fell off on a stock class car. I am well aware of the pitfalls of OPR.

So my questions are how hard are these cars on tires? anyone running different brands? how many good runs before they start to lose time? how much are a set? problems with tires, cooling , belts with codrivers? how many drive belts in a season,? pucks in the dampers? how long do they last? do you change a lot for tuning? anything else i don't know yet? recommendations on seat insert kits? rebuilds? every year? Sooner or longer?What fails most? best things to have in your spares box?


i realize i better get used to bump class, Clutch tuning and repairing fiberglass, speaking of that do i need a different nose for clumsy moments?/codrivers/too many cones?

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Originally Posted by yoitsmatt

I have seriously been interested in a mod car for a while, and an F mod checks all the boxes After getting a hit in a Kart this weekend (after about 3 years) i have very little interest in my Bstreet car. So its back to school again, i have owned several street and st cars, and for a while had a shifter kart. I have been doing this long enough to remember how many runs we would get out of rcomps before they fell off on a stock class car. I am well aware of the pitfalls of OPR.

So my questions are how hard are these cars on tires? anyone running different brands? how many good runs before they start to lose time? how much are a set? problems with tires, cooling , belts with codrivers? how many drive belts in a season,? pucks in the dampers? how long do they last? do you change a lot for tuning? anything else i don't know yet? recommendations on seat insert kits? rebuilds? every year? Sooner or longer?What fails most? best things to have in your spares box?


i realize i better get used to bump class, Clutch tuning and repairing fiberglass, speaking of that do i need a different nose for clumsy moments?/codrivers/too many cones?

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Tires: The cars are light (800 lbs w/ driver with a 500 engine, 850 lbs w/ driver with a 600 engine), so tire wear isn't a factor. Heat cycling them out is. Most competitors get sticker tires for Nationals, then run them all the following local season. I've gotten up to 120 runs out of a set. The first 50-60 runs are typically good, then they progressively get worse. If you store them well (I wrap them between events and bag and put them inside my house in the winter), they should hold up well. ~$800 a set. Avon makes a weird size, but everyone is on Hoosiers.

Co-Drivers: Proper cooling of the engine is the challenge here. Rarely have we run into an issue with overheating tires (unless it is super hot outside).

Pucks: Keep an eye on them, typically once a year to 2 years. Cheap. Make your own or purchase for about $30 a set. You can tune with them, but most use natural gum rubber ones. Depends on the chassis.

Clutch Belts: Keep an eye on them as they wear, one every year or 2 years. Belts are $80-100. Keep the clutches properly aligned and you won't have in issue with overheating them.

Seat inserts: 2 part foam works fine or a bead formed insert. Pegasus racing has these kits (not sure how much, but the bead ones I think are more expensive.

Engines: Keep an eye on EGT's if you can. That is essential for tuning... also learn how to read spark plugs. Rebuilds - keep an eye on compression. I think for autocross a top end maybe every other year or every 3 years. Can probably do a top end for $100-$120

What fails? Drive chains, engines, suspension pieces, etc. Every chassis has its weak points. Honestly you just have to run it and see what breaks, then fix what breaks to mitigate future failures. Everything on these cars shakes... so proper care and feeding between events is essential for a reliable car.

Bump class? For Pro Solos? You will be in R1, and R1 typically has a class at events

If you hit a cone with the nose of the car, you got it really wrong. That said, the noses are typically very strong.

Spares example: Belts, drive chains, carb tuning stuff, clutch tuning stuff, at least 1 front and rear spare hub, fuel pump, all electric spares, spark plugs.

Given a reliable car, you could possibly run a season just spending money on tires, fuel and entry fees. But something will inevitably break, or you will want to improve something.

Thanks!

That was exactly what i was looking for, so pretty much the normal stuff not anything ridiculous on a regular basis. Is it true that these don't need excessive jetting changes? in KM i had a jetting figured out that worked from 50-90 degrees and from sea level to 1500 feet with very little effect. I raced dirt bikes for years and we didn't really worry about it unless it was under 40 or at altitude. I am pretty good at reading plugs but i really know very little about exhaust gas temps, know any good reading on that?

Whats a good source for wheels and tires, I am a spoiled car guy i could just jump on Tire Rack and done. I read somewhere that solo drivers mostly run the rear tire sets on the front too is that the standard setup?

I really appreciate the help, I'm trying hard to get an early jump on next year.

Matt

Matt, Not sure what car you are looking for, but I have a customer who started to go 600/FMod, bought a chassis, engine, some other good stuff and then moved to Atlantic on the track. Made it to the Runoffs in the first year! Project is sitting and will sell without pain. If interested reach me at Small Fortune Racing, 413 267 0904 and I will get you guys together.
Bill Gendron

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Originally Posted by dragonbill

Matt, Not sure what car you are looking for, but I have a customer who started to go 600/FMod, bought a chassis, engine, some other good stuff and then moved to Atlantic on the track. Made it to the Runoffs in the first year! Project is sitting and will sell without pain. If interested reach me at Small Fortune Racing, 413 267 0904 and I will get you guys together.
Bill Gendron

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Thanks pulled the trigger and bought a car, but i did send this info to someone i know that is looking for a 600.

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Originally Posted by yoitsmatt

Thanks pulled the trigger and bought a car, but i did send this info to someone i know that is looking for a 600.

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You should get in touch with Hobbs (winner in FMod) for the last 3 years. He might help with set-up. He knows!

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Originally Posted by Jnovak

You should get in touch with Hobbs (winner in FMod) for the last 3 years. He might help with set-up. He knows!

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Thanks i will, i need all the help i can get its a new world!

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Originally Posted by yoitsmatt

Thanks!

That was exactly what i was looking for, so pretty much the normal stuff not anything ridiculous on a regular basis. Is it true that these don't need excessive jetting changes? in KM i had a jetting figured out that worked from 50-90 degrees and from sea level to 1500 feet with very little effect. I raced dirt bikes for years and we didn't really worry about it unless it was under 40 or at altitude. I am pretty good at reading plugs but i really know very little about exhaust gas temps, know any good reading on that?

Whats a good source for wheels and tires, I am a spoiled car guy i could just jump on Tire Rack and done. I read somewhere that solo drivers mostly run the rear tire sets on the front too is that the standard setup?

I really appreciate the help, I'm trying hard to get an early jump on next year.

Matt

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Not an excessive amount of jetting changes. Most of us set the jets for a certain temp/altitude and let it go. Others change more often. If you have the means to read EGT's, from what I've read 1250-1300 is peak. Over that is "danger to manifold". However, if you have EGT's in the 1100-1200 range, the plug looks good, and the engine is running fine... I'd leave it.

Wheels? Any of the F5 builders can point you in the right direction or sell them to you themselves.

Tires? Hoosier dealer. I personally use R&S (Ron and Sonya Ver Mulm), mostly because they are autocrossers and will mount/dismount onsite. Standard setup is 18x7.5-10 tires all around for autocross. Some of us run the taller tires in the rear for gearing and other reasons (19.5x7.5-10). There is at least 1 car I know of running the 19.5's all around.

You can hit me up directly anytime. Look forward to possibly running into you somewhere.

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Originally Posted by yoitsmatt

Thanks pulled the trigger and bought a car, but i did send this info to someone i know that is looking for a 600.

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:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: Which car did you get?

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/atta...id=75161&stc=1Pete Schroeder's car

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Originally Posted by dragonbill

Matt, Not sure what car you are looking for, but I have a customer who started to go 600/FMod, bought a chassis, engine, some other good stuff and then moved to Atlantic on the track. Made it to the Runoffs in the first year! Project is sitting and will sell without pain. If interested reach me at Small Fortune Racing, 413 267 0904 and I will get you guys together.
Bill Gendron

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600 2-Stroke or 4-Stroke?

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Originally Posted by mmi16

600 2-Stroke or 4-Stroke?

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To be F600 legal it should be a 4 stroke. Going by the reference to F600/FMod ;)

If life wasn't already getting in the way of completing projects, I'd be asking if there was interest in trading for a Club Ford or 10yr old shifter Kart, depending on chassis and motor details. I really need to stop looking at Apexspeed forum...

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Originally Posted by mmi16

600 2-Stroke or 4-Stroke?

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he is mainly interested in 600 4 strokes...

f500 and F600 are now combined into 11 class still called F500

The motorcycle engine are 600cc 4 strokes. The 2 stroke engine that can be used are many however there are only 3 that can be competitive they are:

Rotax 494 a 500 cc 2 stroke twin

Rotax 493 a 500 cc 2 stroke twin

Rotax 593 a 600 cc 2 stroke twin

Did I get the numbers right?

You got it right Jay!

Welcome to FMod - you'll love it here. Looks like you picked up Per's old car, that is awesome! Find us on facebook (just search for "scca f500" and you'll find us).

A well sorted, well-built car like your nova j10 there will be super easy on the maintenance, just keep it clean and address problems as they come up.

Hope to see you at some events -
Brad.

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Originally Posted by mmi16

600 2-Stroke or 4-Stroke?

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Matt,
Sorry for the delayed answer, but I was very occupied. Engine is a Suzuki 600 four stroke. Chassis was a Zink, lots of work done, more to do.

If you or anyone is interested drop me a line at info@smallfortuneracing.com
Bill Gendron