Since the Pro Mazda has to run in FA, in the SCCA events, I was wondering how competitive it is against a full tilt Formula Atlantic car.
Is it a viable alternative to a traditional FA ?
TIA.................
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Since the Pro Mazda has to run in FA, in the SCCA events, I was wondering how competitive it is against a full tilt Formula Atlantic car.
Is it a viable alternative to a traditional FA ?
TIA.................
I don't know, but there are none registered for the runoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Slahor
Pro Mazda has flat bottom cant keep pace given much less downforce. , generally at back of pack when big boys are running.
Check runoffs from a few years ago. Maybe 2009 if memory is accurate, I think there was at least one, black maybe in 10th place.
Ed
From memory, probably inaccurate:
I seem to remember Graham Rahal going well in one at a Road Atlanta national a few years ago, probably won due to his talent. Maybe he was just qualifying for the Runoffs and had use of a PFM (from Dad?), and maybe switched to a Swift for the actual Runoffs (WAG on my part).
He was in a "proper" FA at the runoffs that year.
i just took a look at some results in NEDIV ...
[FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow]2011 NJMP National, swift 008 [FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]1:14.659, swift 16a [FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]1:14.454, PFM [FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]1:18.805[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]2011 Pocono National, swift 14a [FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00]1:29.843, PFM [FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00]1:35.399[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00]tiny sample, and driver/track can make a big difference, but i would say with this, PFM's are not competetive as an FA.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00]another datapoint, at the Nelson Ledges national, there was a swift 008 [FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00][FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00]1:02.538 that was a couple laps down with issues, a FPM won with [FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00][FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00]1:04.191, but sam beasley in an FE [FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00][FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00]1:04.104 [/FONT][/FONT]was dogging him the entire race. At the June sprints this year, did not see any PFM's entered, winning FA was swift 014 [FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow]2:03.685, winning FE was [FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow]2:27.375, but i think that may have been rain time... GL National at RA winning FA swift14a [FONT=TT188t00][FONT=TT188t00]2:04.693, [/FONT][/FONT]FE was [FONT=TT188t00][FONT=TT188t00]2:15.752[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTEDt00][FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00][FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00][FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00][FONT=TTE1CC5C08t00][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=Helvetica-Narrow][FONT=TT188t00][FONT=TT188t00]so figure an FE was on the tail of a PFM for an entire race at NL, and at RA swift14a is about 12 seconds faster than an FE. Longer straights at RA will probably let the PFM stretch out on an FE, but still probably off the pace of true FA.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Matters
A PFM can't keep up with top level Atlantics. A good one should slot in between a F1000 and a FA. No one has really made them competitive in SCCA except for Rahal and he still couldn't consistently keep it at the top of the pack.
With good drivers in both PFM and FA cars, I'd expect the FA car to be 2-3 secs/lap quicker.
The PFM at Topeka a few years back was really good in the rain, but not competitive in the dry.
In general I would say a true FA is about 1 second a mile faster than a PFM. A really good driver in a PFM can easily beat a ok driver in a FA. At Sebring the FA SCCA track record is a 1:59 but PFM have ran a 1:56.9 in a star mazda practice session.
At the June Sprints several years ago young Rahal in a PFM slugged it out with Chris Menninga in an Arms Up-prepared Swift on a wet-but-drying track, the dedicated FA coming out on top. Rahal was just there as a test session for the upcoming Star Mazda race but almost snagged a Sprints win in the bargain.
Would allowing the larger FA tires on the PFM close the gap at all?
Looks like there was a few Pro FM cars mixedin the results.
http://junesprints.com/eventresults/...ce.html?group4
I drove a top level PFM a few years ago at Beaver Run. It was an absolute blast. I was comfortable going quick in it, and thankful for the chance to drive one. But, don't take a knife to a gun fight.
Guys,
PFM front of pack lap times the last few years are almost identical to Toyota Atlantic Pro Series front of pack times when I was running in 1991 at Laguna Seca, Mid Ohio and Three Rivers. The front of the grid in Pro Atlantic back then was all Swift DB4 chassis with carbureted Toyota motors in Pro Series spec. The engines made about 245HP in the mid 9000s. We ran on tires that could easily go 300-500 miles on a road course without falling off in lap times. They were pretty hard and durable.
When the RT40 arrived on the scene in 1993 the lap times fell by over two seconds at Laguna and Mid Ohio, not so much at Three rivers.
Fuel injection and radial tires really stirred things up in 1994 and lap times fell something like a second and a half on the oval at Phoenix.
The last time I drove a DB4 in the pro series was Mid Ohio 1993 and I broke into the high 1.17s in the final few laps while the Players drivers were running low 16s. We were running the course without the chicane before the keyhole. Best time I recall a PFM doing there on that layout was mid a mid 18 and that was over a second better than the next car. The pole sitter won the race with a best lap in the low 20s
Hope this helps...
Steve O'Hara