New to Open wheel LOTS of questions

Hey all, I will make this my introduction and build thread. Let me start by saying my name is Chris Bargman. I am a very dedicated and hard working racer with a goal hehe... Anyway i am mostly dedicated to driving rally but in the theory that driving is driving and anything will help me achieve my goals i purchased a Formula First.

The car seems to mostly be here it is missing some suspension and steering components but for $700 i can not complain. Below are some pics of what i got...
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...612_144921.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...612_154545.jpg

My first question is what exactly did i buy lol... i was told it was a formula first as it has a vw 1600 but the body work does not look like most of the formula first cars i have seen around here...


Tonight i was going through the boxes of parts i got with it and i was only able to find one of these.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...613_184219.jpg
Is this a part that is vehicle specific or is there alot of universal stuff i can buy for this car? i know there are a few websites out there that sell VW parts but what about the chassis components?

Next question and probibly the last for tonight is the stearing beam again were can i find one? will this have to be custom fabbed for my car?

Thanks in advance for all the help i look forward to becoming a regular in this community :)

The frame and portions of the bodywork appear to be a Predator. The guy that build them is from around the area. The part your missing is one of the steering arms that redirect the motion from in front of the beam to the backside of the wheels. Normally, with the VW steering box you'd need both, but since in FST you can use a ring and pinion you could mount it elsewhere and remove those arms. I've got some photos posted http://www.flickr.com/photos/30335291@N02/

Mine is currently setup as a Vee so there are some parallels but they're not exact. There will be a Formula First event at Waterford in two weeks. You should check it out.

Chris, a couple of suggestions: your first source of information about "what you have" would be the seller. Talk to him and get the complete lowdown on what you now find in your garage! A second source would be a FFirst owner in your local area. Although a website can be a good source of input - as you can easily see on ApexSpeed - a more direct source would be someone locally who would be willing to take a look at your "new baby" and advise you accordingly. You might also want to get to a Regional event at the closest track as soon as you can. FFirst racers will be happy to chat about their cars, tell you what it takes to get one of these cars all together properly, etc. and you will also find out about sources for parts. Lastly, comb through the entire FFirst section and you will undoubtedly find valuable information and parts sources there too. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by 2BWise

The frame and portions of the bodywork appear to be a Predator. The guy that build them is from around the area. The part your missing is one of the steering arms that redirect the motion from in front of the beam to the backside of the wheels. Normally, with the VW steering box you'd need both, but since in FST you can use a ring and pinion you could mount it elsewhere and remove those arms. I've got some photos posted http://www.flickr.com/photos/30335291@N02/

Mine is currently setup as a Vee so there are some parallels but they're not exact. There will be a Formula First event at Waterford in two weeks. You should check it out.

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i may just have to check it out i was at waterford one time before for an open track day a few years ago... Im sure there will be alot of helpful people there.

If it means anything the car is fully logbooked and came with a bit of paperwork.

[quote]Chris, a couple of suggestions: your first source of information about "what you have" would be the seller. Talk to him and get the complete lowdown on what you now find in your garage! A second source would be a FFirst owner in your local area. Although a website can be a good source of input - as you can easily see on ApexSpeed - a more direct source would be someone locally who would be willing to take a look at your "new baby" and advise you accordingly. You might also want to get to a Regional event at the closest track as soon as you can. FFirst racers will be happy to chat about their cars, tell you what it takes to get one of these cars all together properly, etc. and you will also find out about sources for parts. Lastly, comb through the entire FFirst section and you will undoubtedly find valuable information and parts sources there too. Good luck. [ /QUOTE]

I have been keeping in contact with the seller on any questions i have and he has been super helpful. as i said this is not just a what do i have post but also an introduction just to say hi and try and meet any local members that could be helpful :)

Thanks for all the help so far you guys have been super informative and im sure this is alot of what you always get from the new guys so thanks for being patient haha.

Chris,

Come to Waterford this weekend (June 25 & 26). You will gain a ton of FST knowledge and meet some really helpful people. I'll bet at the same time, you'll see some extremely competitive racing :D

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Originally Posted by Bill Bonow

Chris,

Come to Waterford this weekend (June 25 & 26). You will gain a ton of FST knowledge and meet some really helpful people. I'll bet at the same time, you'll see some extremely competitive racing :D

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Ill be there. I will be the guy in the conquest. Cant wait to meet some of you guys.

We will be at Waterford Hill as usual this coming weekend, but also, we are not to far from your home location. We are involved with numerous open wheel car/classes, so stop in if you need help or have questions.

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Originally Posted by kea

We will be at Waterford Hill as usual this coming weekend, but also, we are not to far from your home location. We are involved with numerous open wheel car/classes, so stop in if you need help or have questions.

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Actully i purchased my helmet from you a few years ago. i work not a mile from your place i will have to stop by one day.

Do you have an SCCA License? If so, work your butt off and get that car track ready! We need to get the car count up at Road America! :D

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Originally Posted by lawyerbob

Do you have an SCCA License? If so, work your butt off and get that car track ready! We need to get the car count up at Road America! :D

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nah, not yet i wont be able to get my license until the class next year... I'm sure I'm more that qualified tho if there is any way i can get one without taking the class at Waterford?

talk to the licensing guru in your SCCA region - there might be a way to get some the school requirement waived depending on your racing experience.

also, there is a Midwest Counsel School July 9th at Blackhawk. Not sure how many races you have to run after school to get a MC license, but SCCA will allow you to race Regional's on a FULL Midwest Counsel license. The Gratten Race (mid July) is a SCCA/Midwest Counsel joint event, so between the school race and the Gratten event, you could get three races in on a Midwest Counsel provisional lic. before Road America.

food for thought

stop and say hi at Waterford this weekend if you come.

Bob

everyone telling me to stop by and say hi... can i get some pics of your cars so i know what to look for?

Also looking at the Waterford website its a little confusing when should i show up that you guys will be there?

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Originally Posted by on4now4

everyone telling me to stop by and say hi... can i get some pics of your cars so i know what to look for?

Also looking at the Waterford website its a little confusing when should i show up that you guys will be there?

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Look for the place with all the whiskey.

Odds are we will all be paddocked pretty close together. I have a 20' enclosed trailer that says "Yard Racing" on the side. There will also be a HUGE SRacing / Racecar Supply site with several cars - you'll find us.

I'd say Saturday for sure we'll all be there all day. Sunday I suspect a lot of us will pull out as soon as our race is done (which I think we race at 12:30 on Sunday). There will also be a number of people there on Friday for practice and testing, and in some cases, engine swaps :eek:

Chris,

I have photos of 6 of the group.

I'll let each identify themselves.

Oh and yes...... Mr. Steeb does have all 4 off the tarmac

Top right. Pink and blue #5 is me. Looks like Blackhawk Farms to me.

Stop by after the track is quiet for a cold one.

Doug FST 5

Bottom left. Taken at Road Atlanta the first year FST was invited to the ARRC.
Dave

Jason,

Where and how did you get all four wheels off the ground?


Mark

Mark,

Steve here! GAWD, I hope that is Grattan and I hope his Mom doesn't see it! :)

Steve,

There's NO visible curbs nor other vehicles in the photo so how did he launch?

Mark

I'm under the assumption that is the jump at Grattan.

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Originally Posted by Amon

Steve,

There's NO visible curbs nor other vehicles in the photo so how did he launch?

Mark

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It's the super secret helium filled tires! Either that or the "jump" button on the steering wheel - just like Super Mario Kart (would that be cool or what?!?!?!?)

Bob

Yep, that's the jump at Grattan. Shocks come in handy there but aren't strictly required.;)

Doug FST 5

okay, well i will have alot of questions for saturday :D but i am trying to get the rear suspension sorted out as soon as possible...

my questions is what is this piece called and what do most people construct them out of?
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/data...AAAElFTkSuQmCChttp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...untitled-6.jpg
The bar that keeps the shock from bending

It looks like just a rod end with a bar on the one end but whats goin on on the other end?

Its called a droop limiter. Generally, the opposite end will have some sort of spring material, often rubber, to avoid a sudden rate change. Similar to how a bump rubber works. Its purpose is to limit the amount of vertical travel the rear of the car sees since the jacking force is fairly significant.

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Originally Posted by 2BWise

Its called a droop limiter. Generally, the opposite end will have some sort of spring material, often rubber, to avoid a sudden rate change. Similar to how a bump rubber works. Its purpose is to limit the amount of vertical travel the rear of the car sees since the jacking force is fairly significant.

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thanks, u actually answered a question i did not even know to ask haha. im still wondering tho... what is the piece that the rod slides through called? do u know what I'm talking about? the rest looks pretty self explanatory.

Well relative to the picture you've posted; one end is connected to the rocker with a rod end and on the other rocker the rod passes thru a bushing. Basically, one end is firmly mounted and the other is allowed to slide.

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Originally Posted by 2BWise

Well relative to the picture you've posted; one end is connected to the rocker with a rod end and on the other rocker the rod passes thru a bushing. Basically, one end is firmly mounted and the other is allowed to slide.

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that's close enough to what i needed to know. thanks.

okay... next question. i am trying to get the motor installed tonight and im having a clearance issue with the front mount. the person who sold it to me said it should bolt right up but he never had the 1600 in the car all he had was the 1200 is it true that it should mount up just the same? or should i just make new mounts?

If a 1200 was in the car, a 1600 will bolt right in (same engine case).

I had a lot of fun trying to get everything lined up on mine last time I had the motor out. Start with the front engine mount first, then make sure both rear mounts have the trans flange on the back of the chassis pickup point. Then one may go in easy and the other may take some serious finessing to get it lined up properly.

okay. well i had alot of fun today at Waterford meeting alot of you guys. but i have got some new questions that i forgot to ask at the track... first i think i have decided to go with a dry sump setup but i need some measurements.

I figured out that the reason the motor will not bolt in is because the oil pump is i guess the big oil pump there were apparently two versions? anyway what size is the oil pump for the dry sump setup? also were can i buy the parts?

Also bill can i get your phone number? I forgot to do that at the track.

I also managed to not get any pics of how you guys have your rack an pinions set up... could someone post up some pics of your rack and pinion setups?

Here are a couple of pictures of how I did it.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...10-10Rack3.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q...13Steering.jpg

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Originally Posted by Diamond Formula Cars

Here are a couple of pictures of how I did it.

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Thanks, would you mind posting some dimensions of the rack so i have some idea what i will be working with

I don't own this car any more so I can't get you the rack dimensions, however, I am pretty sure that this rack was purchased from SR Racing and I bet that Jim could get you the dimensions if you email or call him.

Well after talking to Jim at Sracing today i have discovered that this is turning into a far bigger project than i could have ever expected... anyways i wont be able to figure out if i can somehow fit the dry sump pump in until i get home and can take some measurements. But is there any oil pump relocation kit available? with the Dry sump setup.

There is no kit that I can think of, but all you need is a pump ($100) fittings and hose (variable cost) and a tank. Tanks run approx three hundred. Rough guess you could do it for $550.

e-mail me and I'll send you a diagram.

fst at rochester dot rr dot com

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Originally Posted by rgu

There is no kit that I can think of, but all you need is a pump ($100) fittings and hose (variable cost) and a tank. Tanks run approx three hundred. Rough guess you could do it for $550.

e-mail me and I'll send you a diagram.

fst at rochester dot rr dot com

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Email sent. Here is a pic of the clearance issue i am having... i just dont think i can fit a dry sump pump in there. that is why i am asking about relocating the pump.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...622_192252.jpg

is there anything in the rules that says i cant notch this part of the frame? it is the only way i see being able to fit the oil pump in...

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...7_171530-1.jpg

There's nothing wrong with notching the frame there. You should evaluate if you need to add something elsewhere to replace what you lost. For example - if you notch the frame there can you weld on square tubing to the front side of the tube you notched?

Doug FST 5