I am looking for information on the electronic ignition system shown above. Schematics, wiring diagrams, company contact info, basically anything and everything that I can get.
Thanks!!
Lee
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I am looking for information on the electronic ignition system shown above. Schematics, wiring diagrams, company contact info, basically anything and everything that I can get.
Thanks!!
Lee
I dont seea picture of anything but I remember from my atlantic days a unusual ignition system on the old cosworth motors. If it is that one i have the tester for the halls effect sesor at the crank. What are you trying to figure out. Finding the manufacturer notes might be harder to find but I will look. If you can send me or post the picture I would appreciate it.
I'd give Steve Jennings or Arnie Loyning a call.
Lee,
As far as I know, Homer kept all the data and schematics very close to the chest. If you needed a box (single or double) repaired you sent it to him. It came backi fixed. End of story. After his passing several years ago I remember his son trying to service the units but, I believe, to no avail.
If you have a Howard system that works you have the best ignition system for the Cossie I ever saw. If it doesn't work, you may by SOL. I have never heard of any service that can fix one. If you need a good system contact Ted Wentz for a good solid state system that uses the distributor trigger.
Charlie that is all good info. I do have one on my car and I have located additional units for spares, plus some documentation. So I am all set. Thanks everyone for your help and thanks ApexSpeed.
Lee
Be wary of the additional units out there. It is almost impossible to determine if they are working or not. One of the more common findings is that the one side of a double box is out. Only way to know is to install and race it. I remember several boxes of unknown condition availabe some time ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Follansbee
If you need a complete Howard ignition (or 2, or 3), call my boss, Dave Vegher. We've got a box FULL of them at the shop... I'm sure he'd let them go CHEAP!
Veloce Motors West
707-765-1326
-Ethan
Are these a sealed unit? as if not they can be repaired, I would imagine that there must be a couple of clever guys State side who would be able to do this, you can even break down the epoxy fillings of some of these things, and as they would appear to quite old, it would not be rocket science you would be dealing with, infact, a clever person could make it smaller and better with what you can buy in the way of electronic componets these days. Also what was so special about them?
Roger
They are not sealed units. They are old style (comparatively) circuit boards. I know several people have tried to sort out the innards to no avail. I am sure someone could do it but at what cost. Ted Wenz sells a good British unit for about $300. Solid state and, so far, bullet-proof.
in other words, they are nothing special, and there are units out there do it better, I guess thats just that time has caught up with them, as in a lot of electronic gear, they are cheaper and don't break done, I used to use lumintion modules, but you always had to have a spare, but now when useing a ford block, I use a nissan distributor that I modifiy, and have never had one blow yet, and I can be sure of a big fat spark, on moden engines, crank sensor and spark packs, and a Lap top, and just let yourself go, does help to have a chassis dyno, to set retard and advance curves at different revs for those extra horses, in F3, they do alsorts of werid things, as they rev limited to 7200rpm, so the extra Ge Gees are very important.
At the moment I am building up a replica F3 car, based on period of 1974, and useing a Alfa twin cam, but there wont be much magic about it, but I have heard that when mounted in single seaters, they have problems with the block mounting to chassis, causeing flexing of the block, I intend to front mount amd use the hewland for rear rear mounts, any other suggestions, chassis based loosley on a Ensign design.
Roger
Roger,
They may be older and technologocally out of date, but I've never seen a more reliable and user-friendly ignition system than the one Homer made. The dual box (one side for crank fire and one side for distributor fire ((to get yoiu back t the pits if needed)) ) was brilliant. In 5 years I never had a problem. Start on the distributor and switch over to crank fiore after start up.
So I guess he used a crank sensor, and a distributor, were you able to adjust the advance and retard, or was it a fixed angle sensor, it does sound like a bit of magic, an oldie but a goodie, it does go to show, that thre is not much new, its just a matter of better machining and metals and components being smaller and reliable, it would be trick to make a modern version of this unit.
Roger
From memory the distributor sensor was a fixed sensor that Homer provided. You had to send your distributor to him. That was for starting and for getting back to the pits in case the crank trigger failed. He was very clear that you were to stay below 6,000 rpm while on the distributor system. There was a three position ignition switch in the cockpit for system selection. Homer made either single boxes (dist or crank) and also dual boxes. He used old fashioned trailer connectors which never failed.
You could try Paul Hasselgren , he might have some units laying around . I used to mount (2) units into (1) lucas Ign. box . (1) for dist. and (1) for the crank front pulley. We used both systems crank and dist., Most of the time ran on the crank pickup . They worked great never had a failure and made up several for friends also .
rp
Was this a lucas module from a XJ6 Jag?, I can't think of another that would be from that area?
Roger
I Also Have A Pair Of Howard Boxes That Came With My Jennings/rt4, They Should Work Fine, I Only Switched To Hasselgrens Own Unit To Suit Him, Make An Offer, Regards, Jeremy Hill 416-231-2007
Been searching for information on a 32DE4 Lucas distributor with an unidentified Hall effect pickup and a single Howard Engineering amp. After finding this thread I assume the magnet disc and 3-wire sensor may be also Howard pieces. Would appreciate it if someone could verify that.
I haven't been able to find anything on the 32DE4 Lucas part number either. Can this distributor/pickup system drive an MSD 6AL? If not, is there a soft rev limiter that'll work with this system? Any and all info would be helpful.
From memory that is a Howard setup. I used an Autometer rev limiter with a dual Howard setup about 25 years ago.
FYI there were two setups. A Single Howard and a Dual Howard box. I haven't seen a Howard box in years and Homer passed several years ago. I heard his son was not keeping up with the old units so if you use a Howard system buy any you can find.
The pickups were a simple Hall effect chip that you can buy from Radio Shack, they died instantly if they touched the magnets or wore into the aluminum disk. They were easy to repair and a pack of 3 or 4 were only a few dollars. I think I may still have some boxes but don't know if they are any good.
The problems that I was aware of were always associated with the boxes, in which Homer had done his magic. When they went out the fix was to send them to Homer who would send them back fixed. He never charged me for the fix.
In the 1980s, my engine builder, Tom Crowther, suggested that I switch from Lucas points to Howard crankfire. I had two modules, one for CF the other for Dist.
They never failed, dry or wet. My only suggestion is to add a dirt shield below the nose of the crank where the CF pickup is to keep tire rubber klag from fouling the pickup.
My Brabham BDG has that setup. A few years ago, I purchased piles and piles of the single and dual Howard modules. These are take off units removed because someone came out with a "faster" set up with the coils on top of the spark plugs. All the pro engine builders went that way in the mid-1980s. So, all the perfectly functioning Howards went into cardboard bins on the spare parts shelf.
Thanks for all the information. The system I have here is a single module Howard and distributor, no crank fire hardware. I need to rig this together on the bench and see if it's still functional. The coil impedance is ~1.4 ohms and the wiring from the box to the coil is disturbingly light gauge (high voltage/low amperage?), so I'm assuming that it's a capacitive discharge system but I haven't opened up the Howard box yet. It was used on a BDJ so it should support high RPM. Thanks again.
It does indeed work, throws a massive spark. Does anyone have a Howard module and crank fire components (for a BDD) they would like to sell? Car is a '74 GRD, so keeping the period pieces would be great.
Bob, as Ethan mentioned above. Call Dave Vegher (veloce motors) in Petaluma CA. He used Homer's ignitions on tons of BD's and Twincams in the 80's.