Are there any plans afoot for a 55th FVee reunion ?
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Are there any plans afoot for a 55th FVee reunion ?
Yes.
where & when, we don't know. lol
it was originally planned for VIR next spring, but we were shuffled out. now we are searching for a venue close to most FV people... a lot of talk is western PA or eastern OH.
here is the FB link.
https://www.facebook.com/events/1101..._history%22%3A
Would love that location but April = snow & rain.
SCCA Formula Vee Preparation Rules 3.D. "Any tire size may be fitted, except that ungrooved radial race tires (radial slicks) are not allowed."Quote:
Originally Posted by veeracer98
So...I guess studded snow tires would be legal...as long as they're bias... :rolleyes::ha:
Glenn
They do not need to be bias if they have tread.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacratt
I never appreciated that DOT street tires are legal. Just have to fit on our 4/4.5" rims.
Brian
There's been a decision where it will be and when, an announcement should be coming soon.
Anyone still subscribed to this thread? I hope so!
VDCA has contracted for the 3 day weekend of Sep 7-9, 2018 at Roebling Road Raceway for a FV 55th birthday party race.
We are just now starting with detail plans but we will have race groups for current FVs and Vintage FVs running separately.
The Brundage cup race for current FVs will be on Sunday afternoon.
Obviously both SCCA and vintage licenses will be honored.
The track is outside Savannah, GA, a great city for visitors to enjoy.
I will get a website up with more info soon but am willing to answer any questions on line as well.
You can post here or write to me directly at VDCA@earthlink.net
Mike Jackson VDCA Race Director and vintage FV racer
Excellent news.
It will be at Roebling Road, correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Elwell
Yes, it will be at Roebling Road - VDCA web site can be found here:
https://www.vintagedrive.com/
I'm an idiot! You'd be shocked to know how long I spent composing such a simple note and failed to say that it will be at RRR, the same track as the past two FV Birthday party races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Elwell
Naturally I posted that exact same text a couple of other places.
Mike
question about FV birthday party....according to VDCA website ........To register for events, all entrants must be current members of VDCA ......so does anybody know if they will not require this?
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/atta...id=76564&stc=1
Just posted a notice on our FV 55 event under Vintage Event News.
I attended and raced in the 50th FV party at Roebling Road and such had a great time. It was such a great event with so much history, great people and memories my family, crew and I will never forget. I HAD every intention of attending the 55th birthday party, because I love FV and I like to party. The track/location didn’t really matter much to me but what mattered was a great turn out and celebrating 55 years of Formula Vee racing. I have several BIG problems with how this event is being planned.
1) Why is this race not being sanctioned by SCCA. We are celebrating 55 years of FV racing. According to Formulavee.us/history.htm “Formula Vee has its foundations starting in ~1959 or so. SCCA first recognized it as a class in 1963” (1963 –> 2018 = 55 years) I fully believe that we as a community owe it to SCCA that our official FV birthday party should be ran at SCCA event. We would not be here today if it wasn’t for SCCA.
2) Why are we forcing (my guess) majority of the current FV guys to pay a $75 membership fee for one race? More about principle then the money.
3) September 7-9?? Are you joking? The 50th was in April… That only gives people 5 weeks between the birthday party and the Runoffs. 4 weeks when you consider the week before the runoffs is awash with travel out to Cali. There is a reason the last SCCA majors is in August. Runoffs prep is very important and 4 weeks is cutting it pretty close and possibly not even do able if you are someone who sends you motor out after your last race to get freshened up for the runoffs.
4) At the last birthday party it was stated by SCCA officials that SCCA would be involved and wanted to help organize this very event in the future? I find it hard to believe that not a single SCCA region was willing to help make this event happen?
Fun Fact: If you take a look at the top 20 (Or the entire field) from the runoffs last year (Starting Grid or Finish) you are asking about 75% of them to make 1 long tow and 1 very long tow within 5 week of each other. These are the racers that continue put their time and money into Formula Vee to keep the class alive and growing.
5) This event should not be in competition with the SCCA Runoffs.
Clearly I am pretty upset about the very poor planning that has happen here. To be brutally honest I have no idea who is planning or helping plan this event, but to me it seems like they do not care about SCCA, respect the SCCA runoffs, or wnat the cream of the crop to attend but that is my own opinion, based on event details. Again we are all here because of SCCA. There would be no challenge cup series, FST series, or 55th birthday party without SCCA and that seems to have been forgotten.
Maybe someone can give me some insight on how this happen? At the end of last year is was portrayed that it would be in the April time frame and closer to the masses?
-Andrew
Pretty bold to sit there & say it was poor planning, when you clearly have zero clue what you are talking about.
I am not going to go thru all the names of those who I know have worked on it or the background for this year event, because I do not know if they want to be named publicly at this point, but rest assured, many folks put a lot of time & effort into trying to get an event to happen. There were a LOT of things that were changed or outside the control of those attempting it. This was someones effort to make it finally happen, and appears to have worked.
As far as the SCCA goes, FV owes SCCA precisely zero at this point. You appear to have Stockholm Syndrome. If this birthday party meant anything to SCCA, then SCCA would've been the ones to set it up.
And for reference, I agree that Challenge Cup exists because of SCCA, but only because we had to do something on our own to address glaring issues that SCCA was not.
The entire time I have been running with SCCA, 37 years, I have felt that the club has zero point zero concern for FV. San Francisco region has basically eliminated the class through unfavorable grouping. I have talked to the local directors about this and they don't care.
It does not surprise me that SCCA would want nothing to do with the FV birthday party.
I'm not positive but I seem to remember that the last FF birthday party was not sanctioned by SCCA either.
In the early 80's FV and FF made up a very large percentage of the entry's at a regional race.
Since you are so in tune with the birthday party planning and me having “Zero Clue what I am talking about” how about instead of jumping down my throat about my opinions how about you answer some of the questions?
1) This is a FV BIRTHDAT PARTY putting your dislike for SCCA to the side for a minute. I still don’t understand why it would be planned against a race that pulls close to 40 of the best FV’s in the country? Seems to me you would want those guys there to help promote FV, increase the car count/competition and let this be a perfect opportunity to try and convince SCCA guys to attend some challenge cup races.
2) Did anyone reach out to SCCA. I find it very hard to believe they wanted nothing to do with it. (Call it 60ish total FV’s added to a weekend, we all know SCCA likes money) Do I expect them to plan it on their own no, but would they be willing to help? (my guess is Ye$) The couple SCCA officials I have spoken to about this over the past couple years have said that they would like to help. Planning it and helping are 2 different things.
3) Why does it feel like this was intentionally planned in competition of the Runoffs? You yourself said April time frame was the plan which would work for the entire community.
Side Note since you went there: Stockholm Syndrome is laughable. I will continue to attend races that provide the highest level of FV competition. You say “glaring issues” and I say that’s part of the game. Race to the rule book and put the best car you can on the track, don’t change the rules to make things easier. Fast guys are fast and fast guys will continue to be up front no matter what the rules are and those are the guys I want to race with. I don’t agree with changing rules to save a couple bucks especially ones degrade the performance of the car. To me personally I am here for the racing and competition not the politics which is why I try to stay away from the forums.
Andrew,
I'll try to address some of your complaints...
The 50th was a great event ..due largely to the efforts of Fred Clark, Sara Snider and a lot of other people - including the VOLUNTEERS that staffed the event. A monunental effort and the 3rd (IIRC) in the 'Clark series of FV B'day parties. Litereally TONS and TONS of work. Also supported heavily by the Buccaneer Region SCCA who allowed us to to have those events at THEIR track and at minimal cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
SCCA (corporate) does not SANCTION many events.. only those of NATIONAL interest .. like the ANNUAL MEETINGS. They TAKE IN sanction fees from regions. The REGIONS put themselves out there .. leasing a track, putting up all the front money and then paying back fees to SCCA based on the attendance at the event. They take a BIG RISK every weekend. A group of us tried for months to find a track and region to get THIS birthday going - all of them involved HUGE EXPENSES for the track alone..fees in the range of $15,000 PER DAY. Who's going to front that money for a Vee only event? Which region is going to allow a hundred or so FV to take over their already existing race weekend? How are they going to get ANOTHER weekend from the track? We could find NO ONE that was willing to do that. A couple of tracks WANTED us.. but they still wanted $MONEY$ .. UP FRONT from us .. something we don't have. One thing that we did NOT try was to set up an online registration and have drivers sign up AND PAY in advance so we COULD pay .. but we would have been registering an unknown event, at an unknown date and an unknown track .. not a likely scenario to expect a lot to sign up.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
I'm not sure that VDCA IS making that proviso, but it they are, it would be to cover the FEES associated with whatever insurance they have since SCCA insurance would NOT be in effect for that event.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
The event date is the VDCA existing event date and VDCA is graciously allowing SCCA members to participate in THEIR event, since we were unable to come up with our own SCCA event. SCCA failed to check with VDCA before setting the Runoffs dates :oQuote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
Who said that? Certainly they would be happy to SANCTION any event we choose to set up .. but that would be to COLLECT money, not to PAY anything towards making it happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
See my first answer that the top of this post. Several of us contacted SEVERAL tracks - including VIR, HPT, Road Atlanta ARRC,..even Indy and several others that were 'closer to the masses'. NONE of them were willing to offer ANYTHING to help financially. It was the finances that drove us out of the game. As far away as it is, Roebling is one of only 3 or so tracks in the country that are owned by a local region and MIGHT be able to work with us. I see a post from MDRacing that Hallett is planning something in April. We didn't have anyone in our group that had any connections at that track.. and it also did not come up in our discussions. Still that is also NOT SCCA sanctioned. Unfortunately, it is sanctioned under CVAR and also EXCLUDES current model FV's so that's not going to work for the majority of us either. We tried .. we tried... and it's too late now to get any other dates. It is what it is. It is a disappointment that it won't work for everyone. Those that are interested and able can support the CVAR and VDCA events.. the rest will have to just wait for a potential 60th .. if any vees are still racing by then...Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
Seems to me you were the one that jumped on things & got wound up. I was just reacting to your response. You are the one that went there about the time & place of the planned event.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
And I pretty much answered your questions when I said "rest assured, many folks put a lot of time & effort into trying to get an event to happen. There were a LOT of things that were changed or outside the control of those attempting it." This was NOT how people wanted the event to end up, but at least SOMEONE got it to happen finally.
Yes, people reached out to SCCA Regions, and could not get our own run groups or meet the demands of what an event like this would require.
And yes, I did more or less say an April time frame... my words were "originally planned for VIR next spring, but we were shuffled out. now we are searching for a venue close to most FV people". So like I said months ago... it was supposed to be at a better location & a better time of year. It didn't work out. Sorry.
For what it's worth, my first thought after reading this was I can't believe they are trying to schedule this so close to the runoffs. I read it, sighed a bit, then mentally dismissed it as a non event.
I understand it takes a ton of work and effort from a small group of people to plan an event like this. I also understand our options are limited when it comes to when and where the event can be held. But it really seems to be dismissive to the runoffs regulars, many of whom are key players in the FV community, to have it scheduled so close and on opposite ends of the country.
The event we are having at Hallett is an annual feature race for vintage FV's. We have been able to spice it up a bit to recognize FV 55. If there was an interest in doing an FV-only event in 2023 the time is rapidly approaching to start the planning. We would all love to have FV 60 at Mid-Ohio or VIR or COTA or my choice - Barber. Dream on, we don't draw enough water to pull a track like that out of their regular rotation at an optimum time of year.
We are more likely to be able to work with a track like Roebling, Hallett, maybe Blackhawk or Nelson Ledges. NOLA might be an interesting possibility now but that track is likely to be padlocked by 2023. We need a coop between an SCCA region and a vintage group to provide sanctions and promotion and the foot-in-the-door to get access to the track. Hallett has an SCCA Super Tour the weekend before our race. I don't think either group would be interested in giving up a very successful weekend to an FV planning group.
Approximately half of the FV's racing today are racing in vintage, I would have no surprise seeing a bigger field of vintage vees in 2023 than current vees. Half the field at Hallett will be current or past SCCA racers driving their vintage cars. FV 55 at VIR was a noble venture and I would have been there, maybe with both cars. Right now my 2018 schedule has eighteen races and I am not sure I can do much more than ten. I'm going to have to make some tough choices. Knowing the when and where at least a year in advance makes the spot for FV 60 easier to hold.
The problem was there was a group of people who were planning this until there was a rumor that the vintage guys were planning an event already. For that reason the modern FV planners ceased as they didn't want to step on the toes of the vintage guys. Weeks later that turned out to not be the case as at the time the vintage guys hadn't planned anything.
Then this came out months later as more of an invite for the modern FVs rather than something that was planned with them. The timing is really bad and should have been at a more northern track as that's where the majority of the cars are at.
It's a shame that things ended up the way they did, just need to start thinking about the 60th soon so it doesn't happen again.
I fully appreciate the efforts of CVAR and VDCA.
I am embarrassed by Post #13
If you're a vintage racer you wouldn't understand his frustration or point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by nsully
A little background, the last time SCCA National put on a open wheel festival it was the F/F Birthday at Barber's
Track rental was around $35,000 and it was only open to F/F and Spec Racers.
With little promotion and interest SpecRacer pulled out due to the date and cars being converted to Gen 3.
13 F/F showed up and at the last Minute Vee s were allowed
Honda underwrote some of this weekend but it was not the event it could have been,
Off season I visited 3 tracks trying to get interest in a Vee event , NOLA , Bowling Green , Barber.
I offered a spring event date and a $20,000 check to cover 3 days.
That is as far as I could go since no track would go for that low of rent.
Glad we may have a event , Happy to run with anyone offering a date of Single class racing.
Sherman
Sherman, I had a blast in my SCCA vee at Barber and keep trying to figure out how to get back there.
I get asked regularly if the vintage vees would like to 'buy' a race session at one of the less well attended SCCA races because they would love to have our 25-30 cars show up. But the site and/or time is usually most unfavorable, that's why a race group is available. The April Hallett SCCA race is a Super Tour race so no room is available for a vintage session. The next weekend for vintage is well attended and carving out a session for SCCA vees would kill track time for everybody and there would be no FV Feature race.
We had on the order of 125-150 entries in 2013 at Roebling if I remember correctly and that is enough to support an event. But the planning team can't plan an SCCA event and invite some vintage cars or plan a vintage event and invite some SCCA cars. It needs to be a joint effort and these folks aren't really used to working together on a one-off event every five years. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes here, but what has been said leaves that perception. The people who complain that the event isn't happening as wanted in 2018 were probably not involved in the planning process at all.
Any track that we would want to race at is booked almost every weekend. I'm getting my SCCA vee ready to race at COTA on Super Bowl weekend. Almost any track is available on Mother's Day or Easter. NOLA is available in July and August but you can't even pay workers to show up then, it's like trying to race at Watkins Glen in February or at Thanksgiving. Between NASA, WRL, Chumps and so on the weekends fill as quick as they open up. Scheduling reps get contacted regularly, "Do you want this weekend? We have notified four other groups, the first to call us back gets it."
Mike
Content has been deleted.
This post just goes to show you can never please anyone.... There was a group trying to schedule a 55th birthday party and had NO luck..It's now the by the good graces of the VDCA that there will be a 55th.
I also find the remarks, about the Challenge Series. .you know the ones about changing the rules to save some money, off putting. A direct slam at the radial tires that save (see other posts about the cost breakdown) nearly $28,000 over a ten year period.Carroll Smith once said, "a race car is anything you put a race driver in." Perhaps there are Formula Vee drivers out there that don't have unlimited budgets like the fast guys that go to the Runoffs...Perhaps the "fast Guys' need to be more involved in the direction of the class. Indy was a bucket list track and that boosted attendance, but you need to look at the participation numbers. Here are the average numbers for Majors participation:
2013 -10.5
2014 - 7.8
2015 - 9
2016 - 8.8
2017 - 6.8
2018 - 5 (after three majors)
Participation at the last Challenge series race at Watkins Glen...28
Someone told me years ago that there are two types of FV competitors in SCCA, Those that love the class and those that want to step on the podium at the Runoffs. So, if you want to just show up to race with the fast guys, and bitch about what others are trying to do you may find that there may be no place to go race the fast guys...
there yo go with common sense & facts, Al.
I was going to repost that tire budget breakdown of yours from before, but couldnt find it. clearly those "couple bucks" are nothing to a top National driver, but the participation numbers & the competition does not lie.
and I would also like to point out, that we ONLY had 28 cars at the Glen because we literally ran out of our silly, budget-minded tires for the rest of the cars that wanted to come race.
I would like to thank Mike Jackson and anyone else that was involved in setting up the FV 55th at RRR. I will be there to race, and any other racer worth his or her salt will quit whining and come race with us. Great cars, great drivers and a great track!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Abbott
I am sorry someone directed you to the VDCA website. The event in Sept at RRR will require only a legal car and a road racing license.
our website is not yet fully functional but will be quite soon. It has some info now and a mechanism to subscribe so we can provide updates. http://Www.formulavee55.com
mike Jackson
Andrew,Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Abbott
Sorry you are so angry at our attempt to hold an event to allow SCCA racers to celebrate the class that I have only been enjoying for a bit over 25 years. You said you don’t know who is trying so hard to offend you. I am a 30+ year member of SCCA and an owner of 3 FVs including both cars designed and built by Harvey Templeton, a legend in both SCCA and FV lore. I have been an attendee at the last 4 BD party races. The organization for which I work as a volunteer was the named sponsor of the last 2 BD Party events. We wrote a significant check to help you have a good time at both of them.
I can only hope you will reconsider your opinion and not continue to denigrate an honest attempt to provide a unique opportunity.
In no particular order...
1 entry in our event will require only a legal car, a current license and an entry fee. Sorry, track rental isn’t free. Wasn’t for the 45th or 50th as some folks think.
2 As Steve said SCCA National has no interest in funding or producing a specialty race. Any claim otherwise is BS. If you don’t believe me, call Lisa and ask. And then call your RE and ask what it would cost to hold a one class event.
3. I personally spoke to the REs at more than one Region trying to convince them to hold the event. None would do it due to not believing they could break even or make money.
4. I offered the ad hoc committee our date at RRR. Their decision was to decline and focus 5 years in the future.
5. We coughed up the dough to move forward and take the total risk of failure if bad mouthing our effort keeps people from attending
6. I am aware of the tight time before the runoffs. Personally, I didn’t want this to be the first 5 year event to not happen if I could help otherwise
7. If someone had rented a track in the center of the country 2 years ago I never would have been motivated to take action. But, the ad hoc committee tried hard to rent such a track and gave up. I hope they have better luck in the future. But track rents continue to climb and they couldn’t care less about the history of our class.
Mike Jackson ... the crazy SOB trying to do us all a favor
http://Www.formulavee55.com
It's so easy to whine and complain about the location and date. It would boggle the mind if some of you had to work out the logistics of hosting a simple rural 5K running race, much less an amateur car racing event with virtually no sponsors that MUST break even. Boo hoo, it's a long tow. Boo hoo, it's too close to the Runoffs. So many people act surprised by the announcement, as though they weren't aware that this is the 55th year and that events like this must be planned well in advance.
The reasons for the date and location have been presented, and it sounds like we're lucky to have an event at all. As far as I know, anyone involved in FV could have reached out to get involved in the organizing of this event. Some knew and weren't interested. Some actually got involved. Some are just glad there's an event. Some just want to complain. If you can't make it and aren't interested in doing any of the legwork in the future to ensure that the event is held at a more desirable location or date...then why bother commenting? It's like not voting and then complaining about election results.
Here's the reality: the club does plenty for drivers that want to race Majors and the Runoffs. The direction of the club is clearly catering to that group. That is where the $$ are, so I totally get it. From the information provided, the club wasn't interested in this event. So when you complain that the date isn't convenient, you need to realize that there are other drivers (not going to the Runoffs, and some that are) that are excited to just have a date. The opportunity to have a single-class weekend with competition across the spectrum without going through 4 sets of tires is very enticing to many drivers. Back when only the best qualified for the Runoffs (and not a participation event), I'm sure there were dozens of drivers that would have chomped at the bit to attend this weekend. Perspective.
I started this thread at the bottom, and scrolled up to see what horrible things Andrew had said.
It was pretty tame. He seems disappointed that we won't be able to attend, and hurt that it was not organized to accommodate serious Runoff competitors. Another post dismissed it as a non-event, which seemed a more hostile response.
People seem to be selectively thin-skinned.
Sounds like a great event!
Hopefully the Abbotts can find a way to get there.
Yep, my mistake - some one had initially asked details on location and since the track was not initially listed I posted the VDCA web site with the schedule showing the track.
Didn't realize it would cause the discussion to spiral in the wrong direction.
Hope I can make the event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandwazoo
CVAR EVENT : April 13-15, 2018
http://www.corinthianvintagerace.com/ (go to 2018 Schedule)
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/atta...id=76763&stc=1
Thanks for the link for our event. Here is the final artwork.
And thanks of course to the sponsors who are helping make this event possible.
Mike Rogers
Some ideas:
We should be promoting the 55th birthday at ALL Events.
I would love to be there but right now it conflicts with a NEFV event. But we welcome anyone in an SCCA legal Vee to come to our events (https://www.facebook.com/nefv.org/) and if any other FV group - vintage or other wants to join us, we would be happy to work with them.
Since the Runoffs are on the West Coast, and the qualification requirements are relatively easy, I do not expect the number of cars per race to be high this year. That might change next year when the Runoffs are at VIR, as I think the East Coast will be VERY active.
But why not have a 55 party at the Runoffs this year? Put the word out that current, former, potential drivers, etc, are all invited and throw a party. Hopefully the FV race will be on the 2nd or 3rd day of races, so you can pick an off day.
Maybe someone out there with better graphics skills than mine could design a poster that could be e-mailed and printed out at the local Staples et all, showing cars from the beginning of the class to now - it could be used as promotion tool for all our races? (Vista Print is cheap)
Just some ideas.
ChrisZ
Hallett is a great track with a wonderful staff, you'll love it!
As many of you know the Brundage Cup is a trophy established by the family that started FV on to what it is today and has been for 55 years now. Since the 20th anniv of the formation of the class there has been a race for currently legal FVs every five years. I guess I'm a newcomer since this will only be my 5th Birthday Party event!
Just last night I spoke with Jan Brundage, son of the founder. Jan has authorized the event in Sept, 2018 to hold the Brundage Cup race. We will have the cup and the Nardi which was the prototype that led to the Formcar also on display.
To learn more about the event please visit http://www.formulavee55.com
And, use the link on that webpage to subscribe. I promise we will not bury you in e-mails but will use it only to pass along additional information as it is available.
Mike Jackson