Does anyone know of any 1990's - 2000's F1 cars available for sale in the US? If not oversees I guess? I have seen a few show cars but looking for something to actually drive. Doesn't have to be a podium car either.
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Does anyone know of any 1990's - 2000's F1 cars available for sale in the US? If not oversees I guess? I have seen a few show cars but looking for something to actually drive. Doesn't have to be a podium car either.
contact a guy named Larry Connor in dayton ohio.
He is the president of a company (real estate ) called Connor & Murphy. Larry once had a Benneton that he ran in vintage races and not sure if he ever sold it or not.
Check with Chuck Haines @ Canam cars. He's got a bunch of cool stuff and knows where more is.
us out. Do you have a budget number? Are you looking for a car with a conversion motor that is easy to run, or do you have a group of techs that can get the car running for you?
F-1 cars are not a "get in and drive" car.
Again, you need to have an operating budget in the triple-digits; F-1 cars were designed and engineered to run a maximum number of about 6 hours....engines, transmissions and suspension/brakes will require constant attention. ($$$$$)
I have maintained CanAm cars and I can assure you that they require a constant "fettling", and need a full-time mechanic to run at the track; they are about a quarter as intensive as a late-era F-1 car.
If I were looking for a vintage experience, I would opt for a F-5000 car or a car similar to what Derek Harling has. A F-3000 car or even an Indy lights car can run in the BOSS series but are infinitely less money to run, buy, and maintain. Buick-engined cars can run a whole season on a single engine (even more)...a lot of F-1 cars will need motors pretty regularly.
A good F-1 car has to be a couple hundred $G....for less than $50G you can get a really good F-3000/Lights car and be on the track in a couple of weeks.
That is why there are so many F1 and Indy "show cars" out there. People buy them, have no idea what it takes to run one, and abandon their plans when faced with reality.
BOSS cars are not for the faint of heart! You had better be technically sound, willing and able to maintain the car properly and be able to drive one properly. These cars can be a huge blast to drive, but can also be "unhealthy" if something goes wrong.
I have a source for a number of BOSS-eligible cars...if you are interested, Pm me. I am in the GTA, about a half hour outside of Mosport.
Best,
Looking for something with a conversion type motor. Budge all depends on the car obviously but would be in the six figures. As for useage I would not be racing it any where other then during the vintage f1 race in Montreal once a year.
The vintage race at the Montreal GP, if we run it again, involves 3 liter F1 cars from 1966 to 1983. There is no provision for conversion motors. You have to run a period-correct car. You might find a car for $300k with a good motor. Then the support equipment.
What exactly do you have in mind? Only running the car at Montreal? That's not enough running of the car to stay current. Do you have extensive experience in high powered cars? Something above a formual atlantic? There is no guarantee HGP will run Montreal again. We hope to have the USGP as a an option. I doubt we will run both Grands Prix.
Probably not if it is only allowable up to 1983 as I would want something newer. I say conversion engine because most of the cars are sold without the engines now.
As for looking after it I would not be capable of maintaining something myself & would be paying big $'s to have it taken care of.
I have no preconceived ideas that I could drive one of these cars at near the level of what they were made for.
Very few places you can run a later model car. Take Tom's advice and go Indy Lights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
These cars are not to be driven slowly. They become fairly dangerous when driven like that. Go atlantic racing and spend a lot less money.Quote:
I have no preconceived ideas that I could drive one of these cars at near the level of what they were made for.
Can you explain why or how they become dangerous when driven slowly. I've seen some slow out and in laps over the years and seen drivers park it in the corners and allow over taking driver by. I see Tom Cruise take the wheel of the Red Bull F1 car and was able to maintain control at low speeds. Is throttle response extremely sensitive? Tire heat an issue once the warmers are off?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
Just curious - never driven a F1 car.
Ian
To maintain any kind of momentum and to use the car anywhere near the way it is designed you have to maintain a certain speed. Yes, there are some that are very slow . . . they also are dangerous. Tire heat is always an issue and it can be difficult to keep the temps up. As with most high performance machines you have to drive the thing at (say) 85% of its capability to maintain a flow and enjoy the machine. Driving one of these slowly just isn't fun. Trying to run slowly and yet keep the engine where it is supposed to be is difficult and leads more inexperienced drivers into trouble than you could imagine. More than just a financial commitment is needed. And, if reports are accurate, Tom Cruise was not slow. He wasn't at Couthard's speed but he wasn't creeping either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Lenhart
As with any high downforce car, you have to drive it at speed for it to hold the road as designed. At lower speeds, the cars can be very skittish...not fun at all.
An older Indy Lights car is a good avenue, but so is an old IndyCar that was converted to AIS. I'm not up to date on what is allowed and what is not in historic racing, so not sure if you could run a conversion motor of not. May depend on what historic series you run with.
Check out: www.Race-cars.com
If you want a car that is a real blast to drive with more current specs, try a Formula Renault 3.5 V6. Probably no series in North America you can run it in, but quite the car, see:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ot...77919837ss.htm
There's a 'little older' one for sale out here:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/ot...82155019ss.htm
This car is run and maintained by JFC Racing which is a FIRST CLASS operation:
http://www.jfcracing.com/CLIENTCARS/...1/Default.aspx
All things considered.. a good price too.
If you want to go another direction, they also have George Follmer's CAN-AM Shadow for sale fpr $400,000. But be warned this is an 8 Liter TWIN TURBO freaking MONSTER designed to be a Porsche 917 killer :) .
Here is a good clip to help explain why they can't be driven slowly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Lenhart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJ...e_gdata_player
If you want to go really fast for about $125k, how about a mid-90's champ car. This guy www.lolachampcar.com has a couple for sale and the site has a good explanation of how to drive one. He told me that cars this fast are not "fun" in the typical FF sence but demand total preparation and respect when driving because mistakes at those speeds are lethal, like climbing Mt.Everest. He also said the EVERY driver spins an Indycar on cold tires at some point, there is a good article on how to warm up tires on a champcar on his site.
In order to be able to properly drive a car capable of speeds more than a hundred miles an hour, you need to drive said car at least once a month. The car is not the limiting factor; it is the driver.
A Lights car or Atlantic car is capable of close to 3 G's lateral if driven properly...and THAT is a lot of G's! They are quick, agile, fast, and FUN!! They are also not the first formula car to have been driven. You should consider starting out in a lesser formula. FFord or FMazda are both great learning formulae. rent a car for a few races in a season, then decide what is the next rung. A Ford will test your reaction skills, build your confidence levels and will test your ability to drive. It is also a car that a new driver can learn the craft in.
An Atlantic (or Lights, or F-3000) car is truly a "First Pro Car" rung on the formula car ranks....and it is a LOT of car when driven to its limits. There is enough power, grip and aero to be able to do everything with the car that any F-1 car can do.
It is also a car that can be driven by the committed driver with a years experience in a smaller car. It also has enough speed to get you into trouble if you do not have the requisite skills. Remember, our is a sport that comes with a significant penalty for competing "over our head"!!
In terms of maintenance, these cars will certainly require a regular maintenance schedule. I use the 4-to-1 ratio; for every hour "on track", there is a minimum requirement for four hours of maintenance. If you buy the right car, you can get a season of maintenance-free engine use, and just have to concentrate on tires and consumables. Charles, Derek, feel free to input some budget numbers here, but I would suggest about $2,500 per race in consumables (incl tires)? Of course, crash damage or over-revved engines don't factor in here. As well, you should budget for a trans rebuild per season (things like dog rings, gears, bearings and seals)...
I budget $4G per race for a top-flight budget for the car. That will (should) cover all the maintenance costs for the car. It will also help with that new wing or undertray you might want to have made....
Then there needs to be the pit lane equipment and trailer. I have a 32-footer with a 7 foot long toolbox, golf cart, alignment platforms, etc that I haul to the track....but I am a "preparation lunatic"! I operate on the principle that :if you don't bring it, you'll end up needing it"....so I bring everything! With that said, I rarely have a car that doesn't finish a race weekend at the track. I also prep customer cars, so I need all that stuff. My "at the track" setup is at least $100G's , truck, trailer and tools/spares.
A car at the level of Atlantic needs to be set up properly and "tuned" at the track, so you need access (at a minimum) to a set of scales and alignment platform at the track. You need to be able to change shocks/springs and suspension setup. As well, at least two sets of tires plus rains. Then there will be a need for the spares (fuel pump, oil system parts, brake pads, rod ends, susp arms, etc). So a minimum trailer of 20 feet is needed. Ideally you have your own air and power so you don't need to be borrowing...
So budget $35G for trailer, spares and tools.
Car prep starts at about $2G per weekend. That is "bare bones" and will get the car set up with a base setup delivered to the track. If you are not inclined, then you should arrange for engineering/development work. I charge $100 per hour to set up the car.
For that, we look at the basic car setup, you get a development program, all the setup notes, and I teach you what we are doing and why. The objective would be to train you (or your delegate) on the basic parameters of the car and "what to do, when to do it" to the setup. By the end of four weekends, a smart customer should know enough about a new car that they should be able to take over the tuning, and just may need to rent the alignment/platform system from us. In that way you get the benefits of developing your car using a $15,000 setup rig and tools.
Anyway, I am rambling along here, answering questions that were not asked.
For my money, there is a ton of excitement in an Atlantic-style car. And a LOT of fun driving it! And little overhead, so it can be done on a budget.
I also know a friend who spends $80G a year on golf! So you can always find ways to spend your money! ;)
Best,
Too long to quote but I have much of what you listed above if not more for equipment already. I do run/race already in the US & Canada. I typically spend more then what you listed above for a weekend already. We bring everything to the track including the kitchen sink. The only time we haven't finished a race is because I did something stupid in the car, not due to mechanical issues thankfully.
There would be a big learning curve going from FF up to FA or anything for that matter.
Not interested in an Indy car though either. There is something about a F1 car. I would be ok if it just sat in my garage too.
Email me a budget to fattogatto@msn.com and I'll find you what you need. I have several sources in Europe where these cars are relatively available. Eg. I sold two 1987 March f1 cars, running, for $140k several years ago. They are out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
Tom,
Budget-wise, the atlantic would be around your example. From a privateer's perspective all of the fancy gear is not always necessary. Steve Overton was perennially the MidDiv national champ with a 20 foot trailer, a small generator, and fuel cans. He only had one set of gears that he used for every track. Nothing fancy on the car, not even a rev limiter. Shop time was the key.
That said, the fancy trailer with all sorts of gear does come in handy - if not for your car then to help others.
From the F1/Indy car example, since none of us are able to prep the cars and maintain them, the budget needs to be at least tripled, and there is a need for a tremendous amount of support equipment, including help. Derek probably does it the best I've seen on a minimalist platform. He spends well more than 4 hours in the shop per each hour on track. I'd guess I spend twice that, or more. That's for the atlantic.
Purchasing these cars is just the tip of the iceberg.
I think that was his point.. Tom Cruise is not known for being a fantastic driver, quite the contrary if we are to believe the reports here on apexspeed.. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
Awesome link. Does F1 teams preheat the brakes prior to a run? It seems a bit crazy that a F1 driver can do one out lap and then a flyer (especially at a shorter tracks or even Monaco) if the brakes are cold. Richard Hammond was still lacking heat in the brakes after 2 laps on the Silverstone short course and was experiencing lockup at each corner.
Now here's a more realistic question in my mind. Being that I've never raced a Formula Atlantic in my life (mostly formula fords), what does it take to get an Atlantic up to speed. In other words, could I get into an atlantic and feel confortable after a few test sessions or is it a longer learning curve. Obviously you don't know my skills, but let's say someone who can run in the top ten at the Runnoffs in Formula Ford. Could this person rent an Atlantic for a weekend and race safely and turn respectable lap times fresh out of the box? What would you tell this driver before they hit the track for the first time? Please avoid responses like drive a FC, FE, FM or FB first before jumping into the deep end with an Atlantic. I'm talking about FF to FA.
Ian
Ian, I think it would be expecting a lot for somebody with FF experience to be able to compete in their first event at the "sharp end" of an Atlantic race. With that said, if someone were to take a couple of test days and learn the car, they could be quite capable of running in the mid-field with a good car.
The challenge is getting used to:
The downforce, where you now need to maintain a much higher cornering speed to keep the car planted. To go faster when our minds are telling us we have to go slower!
Thinking so much more quickly. Things happen a whole lot faster in a FA
For someone like me (aged 55), the transition would be substantial. We just do not have the reaction times needed for a quick transition. We need to build up (and rely on) experience rather than the "seat of our pants".
I would need to work my way up to speed in any faster car...!!:p I subscribe to the "sneak up on it" program. Just keep the car on the pavement for the first couple of events, learn what is going on, THEN start to push! We don't heal quite as quickly as we used to! And the time lost out of the seat while repairing crash damage is just a sad waste of time.
Now, the cool things!!
A car capable of Atlantic performance is a HUGE BUZZ!!! The DOWNFORCE!!! is addicting! Once you go to a car with even decent wings, you'll have trouble going back to Ford. A properly setup FA car, driven at 85%, can win regionals easily...and you can drive that car with two fingers! It can be a big ego boost...and a huge thrill. Then there is the SOUND! I love it. And there's the torque.....and there is the speed.....and there is........
Best,
That is an interesting question Ian. For me going from F2000 to club atlantic was no big deal other than learning about how to use the downforce. The car is loose in T1 in 4th gear with a big lift but knowing that in 5th gear flat on the gas, that the car will stick like a slot car. You will talk to yourself alot at first! The first thing you will notice about the atlantic is the brakes, they are unreal. With all of the grip avaliable an atlantic is really underpowered, they are pretty easy and safe cars to drive at mid-pack national pace. BTW I have a couple of ICCshifter karts that drive with a similar performance feel of an atlantic for a fraction of the cost. If you are quick in a shifter kart, you will have no problem in an atlantic.
When you see these cars in a series, there is great number of people involved setting up, testing...... Could a small group of people (2-3) put one of these cars on the track for a weekend and the car be safe to run? Or is the set-up so specialized it becomes all or nothing?
Yes
A small group of technicians can get a "modern F-1" car on the track, But these are not you local drinking buddies but they are specialized and trained folks. So simply speaking, it is not an easy proposition. That is why $S10G for a weekend is the number if you run your own car. More if you sub-contract the work.
You can easily run a FA or equivalent car yourself at the track, as long as there is little to be done other than simple setup. If you are changing a motor, then you might just want a little help. Also, if you run that car on your own, you will not be able to develop the car effectively. But that goes for a FF as well:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by nbrigido
Stepping up from FF to Atlantic was no big deal with me. This was a vintage Atlantic with less aero than a modern one but it was still double the power/weight ratio. But then I've always adhered to the adage "Don't try to go fast straight away - concentrate on being smooth and the speed will come to you."
Stepping up to the F3000 from the Atlantic, again doubling the power/weight, WAS a big deal. My reaction after my first track session a couple of years ago was "This thing is brutal" but again concentrating on being smooth helped a lot and I was soon comfortable - if not really fast. Now I'm very comfortable driving it, including 2-hr enduros where we mix it with recent ex-pro drivers (with multiple Daytona/LeMans wins) in cars like the Audi R8 LeMans winner. And yes - I'd now like more power!
One caveat - all my experience noted above has been in vintage racing where there is an acceptance of slower, less experienced drivers on track at the same time. Whether there would have been the same acceptance at typical regional/national races I have no idea.
Again to try to put some perspective on the situation - I've had friends and neighbors with no racing exposure at all say things like "Must be a real adrenalin rush driving at those sorts of speeds so near the ground and strapped in that little cockpit". "Err - no - you've got to be smooth, in control, thinking ahead, anticipating, getting the car to do what you want - if you get an adrenalin rush you've done something wrong."
Satisfaction yes - adrenalin no.
Afterthoughts/recommendations -
- if you are comfortable with an FF (or other 'junior' formula car)
- go for a Cosworth engined Atlantic - any age up to about 1990.
When you are comfortable with that and still want to go faster
- go to a good driver's school and keep the same car
- or - at double the expense with no guarantee of double the enjoyment -
- go for an IndyLights (Buick V6) or AIS converted ChampCar (Chevy V8)
Do not consider any F1 of any vintage unless you want to spend 10x/20x as much.
Do not consider a turbo Indy car under any condition - Bill Hart's website notwithstanding.
One of our local Formula Ford heros, Shane Yanitzi, won a test in a current IPS/Indy Lights car a couple of years ago, in 2007. Did good, put together a package to run in the support race at Indy. Practised as high as third, qualified lower third, and finished the race. A normal guy, obviously a very talented normal guy, with really only FFord experience, stepped up to a current IPS/Indy Lights car (witth Brian Stewart Racing) and doing really well in a one-off pro race. So people with Formula Ford experience can run with the big dogs. Has to be the right guy and the right car, and the right team sure helps.
Brian
I had the magical privelage of driving a modern F1 car on a GP Course at speed a few years ago.
My prior track experience was with Modified Road Cars: Ferraris, Porsches, BMWs, Formula 2000 and Euro Formula 3 ...as well as some CSR/DSR action.
The F1 car was amazing and surprisingly 'easy' to drive.
The car was a 1999/2000 Williams FW21 (Pizzonia's Test Car) chassis, fitted with a Cosworth 650bhp 15k RPM V8. The track was Magny-Cours (amazing to drive - cant believe its off the calendar).
For the first lap, i was scared... but i drove the car hard under acceleration and braking and took it easy in the corners. Both tires and brakes def need proper heat to work great - but they work fine during the warm up, as long as you dont do anything stupid right out of the box. I've seen the Richard Hammond Renault F1 drive and I did not have the issues he was having AT ALL. Honestly, I think they implemented a little 'TV drama' for that bit + the short 'autocross' like course they setup was not proper for an F1 car.
The sound inside the car at WOT is insane ... there's some sort of 'speed of sound' thing that happens. As you progress the RPMs, the sound moves from 'behind you' to the front .... its hard to explain and really weird.
I did 10 laps and every lap was faster then the last, as I became more confident. I flat-spotted the tires a little towards the end of my session, as I kept diving deeper and deeper into the braking point at the end of the straight due to the INCREDIBLE performance and ability to modulate the Carbon/Carbon Brakes. My eyeballs actually did hurt afterwards.
I was impressed at how easy the car was to drive fast (except for the standing start/roll off/foot operated clutch start - VERY tricky), and i was impressed with how PERFECT the car was in every way: It was the ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE, actually. Acceleration beyond your imagination, Handling beyond your capabilites ad understanding of physics ...and the best part is the stopping power = just WOW!! I had no idea how deep you can go. And ever since this experence, i vowed from that day on to do everything i can to get one of these. (Yes, i started playing the lottery on a regular basis).
My point is, i believe there is a future for amateur/club racing with these machines. There are alot more becoming available... and there are some really smart, innovative people that have yet to make these machines easy to run for a small 2-3 man team. Theres not that much more to them then Formula Atlantic or any other Formula car .... its just more of everything and more perfection.
I saw Lotus is doing a program for $1mil that has an F1-inspired car and they train you to drive it.
http://www.lotuscars.com/motorsport/...xos-experience
Anyways, good luck with finding an F1 car - dont let people discourage you - its an amazing experience and is accessible to us mere mortals. i know in a few years i will be searching myself.
I have to disagree. A tremendous amount of difference, especially when driven fast. I notice you did not mention your lap times in comparison to Pizzonia's. These cars are still magical even when puttering around. They become less magical and much harder to drive without your WOW factor and you get down to it. To think any of us can go out with a modern F1 car and drive it three or four times a year and be either (1) quick or (2) safe is folly.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek
Its a tremendous amount of difference in what its capable of, compared to a modern Formula 2000, 3, 3000 ..... but the general design, layout and mechanics is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
Pizzonia was not there - and there was not a comparable lap time since he didnt test at that track in that car (i dont think) ... and it had a V10 at the time (again, i think, but def a different engine).
i drove the car in 2008 and at the time, that day, 15 other people drove it (mostly amteurs, along with a couple semi-pro F3 racers). I would have to dig up lap times .... but i do remember being 2nd fastest of the day between the 2 pros.
I dont know how my lap times make a difference to the point i was making: that this car was easy to drive for me, easier then every other Formula Car I'd ever driven. I dont doubt that a pro-F1 driver could have done 5-10 seconds faster.
Mostly speculation, but i think the older 60, 70s, 80s and even early 90s F1 cars are more difficult to drive and handle/wrangle ...then the modern day cars.
If you dont believe me, you should try it out. It cost me about $1000 per lap and was an unforgettable experience that i would not trade-in. The company had purchased and were prepping a 2002 Williams-BMW and a 2004 Jaguar at that time and should have those ready by now.
Its very possible that we were all slow that day - and i have delusions of grandeur ;) but my point is that it was easy for everyone to jump in and drive and it felt safe and no one got hurt and no records of anyone being hurt at any of their events that i could find.
But i will say this .... i remember the imense focus and fear and respect that i immediately acquired when i 1st opened the throttle to 100% ... and remember thinking to myself (in the car): "I cant believe 22-24 of these cars go w2w at 10/10ths for over an hour" .... that was a real mind blower.
So, I dont tink i would ever go amateur w2w with these cars, and if thats what you mean about dangerous, then i agree.
99% of us amatuer racers are not fit enough to drive an F1 car at speed for more than a handful of laps. 1990's era F1 cars provide no lateral head support......your neck muscles will not last long.
I sometimes found it difficult to get thru a test day in my DB4 before my neck gave out. And that was pulling only around 3 lateral G's max.
If the car was that easy then you were not trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek
22 years atlantic, F3000 and 12 years historic grand prix.Quote:
If you dont believe me, you should try it out.
The cars that are set up for John Q. Public are detuned and set up to be very predictable and safe. So, if you simply want to drive them around a track to say you have driven an F1 car then that's great. To expect to be able to jump in one, go anywhere near quick, and be competent is just not on.Quote:
but my point is that it was easy for everyone to jump in and drive and it felt safe . . . . . i remember the imense focus and fear and respect that i immediately acquired when i 1st opened the throttle to 100%.
What exactly was I supposed to be "trying"? .....to crash the car into the guard rail? .... or was i supposed to be trying to beat the lap record in a 8-year old 650hp F1 car, for which the lap record was held at the time, by a 2-year old 900hp V10 F1 Car?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
Like I said, give it a try in a 'modern' F1 Car - say 1998-on. I bet in your own 'honest' experience, the most difficult cars you've driven of the FA, F3000 were the 'historic' F1 cars? Yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how they engineered the difficulty out of the more recent examples.
I got much respect for you 'historic' car racers - you guys are a different breed of brawn and balls .... and your doing something that is more difficult then it needs to be... for no other reason then joy and challenge, but it probably suits your sensibilities and obviously provides you with fun.
The telemetry povided says otherwise, i specifically paid $1,000 bucks per lap to not have a 'de-tuned' experience. At best the laptop downloads read G-Forces reaching into 4gs, top speed of 180ish ... and a 15k rpm redline that increased the 'tunnel vision' effect down the straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
I think a guy like you, with the insane skills it takes to wrangle those 70's-80s F1 cars might even surprise himself in a car like 'that'
Drive one before you hammer the last nail on the coffin and swear up and down this forum that it is too difficult to go any respectable speed, too dangerous (although I feel modern F1 cars are much safer then the previous examples) or that they are de-tuned for pedestrians.
Look at the openning message of the thread. It is about buying one of these toys and driving it once or twice a year. That would be, IMO, an insane thing to do, both from a safety standpoint and a monetary one. What is a respectable speed? Not sure about anyone else but just driving around a racetrack in one at an easy and comfortable speed doesn't do justice to the car or driver. Like getting in a Spitfire or Mustang and flying straight and level. Yes, it is an experience just to drive one - an experience that all of us would love to have. But, to advise someone to buy one based on your limited experience in the car, and admittedly no experience with upkeep and maintenance, not to mention startoing the thing, is misleasding.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek
I said race it once a year, not drive or use it once or twice a year. Just because i wasnt racing it doesnt mean i couldnt run it by renting a track multiple times a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
I really can't believe this thread is still going. One of the reasons I said 90's or newer was so the car wasn't as difficult to drive as a 70's or so car.
As for what I do from a monetary standpoint I wasn't asking anyone's opinion originally. If I was worried about that, or any of us on here were that race cars, then we would stay at home instead of racing & count our bank balances or money that was hidden in our matteress.
Papa just rolled over in his grave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam Bam
Don't take it out of context. I never said any of them are simple to drive, I was only answering your points. You seem to only say why things can not be done & I have addressed your points well within reason. I never asked for advice on if I should or shouldn't, only what was available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Warner
Like this?
http://www.f1-sales.com/fa14.htm
Call Matthew Mortlock. He's an acquaintance of mine. If you really want one he has it. I'll even be glad to inspect it for you.
From this thread I found out these are within an hour from me & will be checking them out.
http://www.f1-sales.com/b198.htm
Years ago, I decided to give a little back and volunteered to help work T4 at a CalSpeedway vintage race. From that vantage point I can assure you that the guy racing his BOSS car with "brawn and balls" is the exception, rather than the rule. Some really great cars, pretty exciting to watch/hear/feel from that vantage point. Some really nice folks driving those cars too. However, the vast majority are nowhere near pushing those cars to anywhere near their limit, probably for a variety of valid reasons. But none the less "large attachments" are not a prerequisite.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastek
Love the Benneton....