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I've seen several places where people ask maximum height or width of a person that will fit into an FV. I haven't seen any threads about what the maximum height and width of a person is will fit.
If you feel so inclined, please post what car you drive, your height or weight and what you think the maximum height or weight you think will fit into your car.
:checkered:
I'll start.
1992 BRD(#5) built by Brad Beunting. Raced by Doug Seim, Greg Rice, and lastly by Bill Ross. I have all 3 logbooks, and started a 4th.
I'm 5'9" and 225 currently(hoping to be under 200 for next year). I think 230-235 and up to 6' tall would fit, if you are normally proportioned with respect to leg and torso length. I have a 1" foam pad between me and the aluminum floor. With a fitted 2 part foam seatback, the car is VERY comfortable to sit in and drive.
If bigger than that, I'd search for a Womer or find out if Ed would still build one.
I fit in both a Citation and a Caracal D, but had difficulty getting out. It's easy to get out of my BRD, and even easier to get out of a Womer, they have SO MUCH cockpit room.
Come to the track and try them on, that's the best way. I did.
I designed the 84 Citation FV to fit me. I was 6'2" and 225 when I did that car.
I also produced the Zink Z12 and that car was designed so that the drivers helmet fit just under the top of the fan housing.
I have seen several of the original Zinks that have had the roll bars replaced with and the 5 gallon "wedge fuel cells fitted behind the drivers. Bottom line, while the car may "meet" the SCCA rules, I consider the cars unsafe because to the height of the roll bars above the frame mounting to the frame. Also the length of the forward braces is way too long for 1" diameter tubing that is typically used. Because of the length of the braces and the small diameter, I can see the braces bending ant trapping the driver and the roll bar collapses downward and forward.. And there is the possibility of the mounting to the frame failing as well.
With the driver sitting so high in the car, the performance of the car is significantly compromised because of the much higher center of gravity of the car and driver combination.
Fuel Safe can make a 5 gallon fuel cell based on the design of what Don Allen made for the 84 Citation FV. This cell will fit any Zink or Citation formula car that needs a fuel cell that wraps around the driver.
Sorry for repeating this old rant of mine.
"Sorry for repeating this old rant of mine."
No need to be sorry. Many need reminders from the fountain of wisdom. I've seen pictures of mods that are clearly dangerous.
FVs are so low production that there is no standardization even among cars built side by side in the same shop. When shopping for a car, you need to ask the height and size of the current driver as well as the ballast/underweight/overweight condition. They did have different roll bar height rules and an aero fixation in the late 70s/early 80s which means those cars tend to be smaller. Then the cars went to a 2x4 ladder frame phase that was simple, cheap, and safe. By the 90s, spaceframe chassis became the rage again which allowed bigger drivers to be competitive again, but there are definitely compromises in terms of safety and crashability (degree of damage when crashing).
Many bigger drivers that are shopping for cars focus on fit but ignore the weight. Being 30 lbs overweight does affect performance and 60 lbs means you will never win anything. Ignore the tales you hear about some driver who smoked everyone while 100 lbs over. You can always buy a better engine, transmission, or whizzy bits, but making cars lighter takes time money, and often is impossible. Spend more for a car that you fit and makes minimum weight (with you at your real weight, not your "hope weight next spring.")
Well thanks for the nice comments about the Womer! I haven't built a car for 15+ years since when Rod Stout, who was Brad's dad made some improvements to the Protoform to create the Vortech chassis that became the car/chassis to have. Main reason that chassis is consider the best, is it was only sold to people who were competent drivers and had the money to play at the front of the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyPip
There are 16 EV-3 cars made and I still have the original one, chassis #001. I do get asked if I would build anymore cars and the simple answer is yes, but in my time frame and obviously it will cost more since steel prices have increased considerably sine I built the last car. Just because I am retired doesn't mean I will get right to it.
When designing the chassis I actually went around to drivers and co workers and actually measured the one thing I realized was important in different sized drivers getting into cars and that is width of your shoulders. Guess what, until you get to heavier built people, everyone has pretty much the same width of shoulders until they start adding the extra weight which makes them seem wider but the actual width of the shoulder bones is the same, 20". I have seen thin people as tall as 6'4" drive my cars and weight wasn't an issue.
I also copied the steering box over the legs to increase the room inside of the car and moved the rear hoop back to where you need to remove the firewall to get the engine out. Those things and a simple design seemed to make the car accept larger people.
Chassis #001 still has the original design 1 1/4" hoops that SCCA made obsolete and would not grand father in older chassis so I designed an up graded chassis so everything starting with #003 meets the new rules. My personal car for many years was recently sold to a new person in Ohio by the owner at the time.
You don't see many of my cars come up for sale since I think most people like them so they tend to keep them.
Ed
I have a Mysterian M2 adapted to my 6'4" 215# self. the cross bar under the main hoop was laid down and moved back to allow the cell and cover rearward appx 2". Aluminum floor pan. I have a very long torso and at 6'4' a 32" pant inseam. The main concession I made was to have Ron Chuck increase the main roll hoop dramatically and use a swift DB1 style forward brace-head protector. The firewall is mounted to the back of the main hoop. I made the upper shoulder belt cross bar removable to facilitate easier engine removal.
As for the consideration of the structure, the M2 uses 2x4" main frame rails, and the Roll bars are stout. Ron Chuck has incredible welding skills and I have total confidence in the safety of his mods. Just my 10 cents. I recently ran the Sab Francisco Region finale at Thunderhill and was a pip off fast lap while leading the bulk of the race from Blake Tatum of crusader vee fame and Mace Gjerman in Ron Chucks personal M2. So, if you are tall and big, there is a car out there, or you may need mods, but jump in! The Vee fraternity is awesome!!
I'd be cautious taking this feedback you're getting too literally, as there are important factors not being mentioned:
Is the drivers height in his legs or torso?
Is he/she pot-bellied, thick legs, or broad in the shoulders?
Are the pedals in the car adjustable? If not, can they be made to be? Ditto steering column.
How tall is the cars roll bar? Can it be extended/changed for a taller one?
Is the driver wiling to sit on the bare floor leaning on frame tubes, or does he/she insist on a bead seat? (I hope so).
YMMV
I do have a Protoform P2 set up for tall/big person. see add in Vee for sale listing/ smokin dealQuote:
Originally Posted by lbacon
I had started a "buyers" guide and was working on some of the above info.
One thing to remember is your shoe size.
I can say that a Lynx/Caracal B/C should have the widest footbox, maybe a D13 is wider.
A Caracal D or Mysterian has a very narrow footwell. I am thinking 10.5 is maybe max without mods? The shorter you are the better as the width increases as you move the pedals back.
I drove a Protoform P2 and thought the footbox was decent and the Citation is wide but you have to remember the steering shaft can interfere with your clutch foot.
Cars like the Womer and Vector take the steering column out of the picture, but now you have to watch out for your knees if you are tall.
BTW - don't jump in a FV with street sneakers and expect to even move it around your yard....
For cars with narrow lower frame "beams" like the Caracal D, you can scallop the area where you sit to pickup a inch on each side. Fred Clark can explain if you have one of those.
ChrisZ
Check your private messages, Ed
The Womer chassis is 16" wide at the front where the beam bolts on and 20" at the rear hoop. These are outside dimensions. I don't know how tall the rear hoop is off hand but I am 5'8" tall and the top of my helmet was just above the top of the forward brace of the rear hoop and that is 6" below the top of the rear hoop. I have long legs and short torso and sit on the floor of the chassis with my legs straight out.The battery which I used, was a lawn and garden battery for a ridding mower and is in front of the beam and the fire bottle is just in front of the steering box over your legs. The belly pan is continuously weld all around the bottom of the frame and is 18 gauge steel. I will not make a chassis without welding on the belly pan. I have seen cars that had big hits and sheared off the rivets of the belly pan.
I have endoed as well as cartwheeled my car and didn't do any damage to the chassis. Dean Curtis who has one of my cars has tried multiple times to damage his car and so far been unsuccessfully at it.
I have yet to make new side panels and engine cover that will increase the width in the elbow area and some had added bulges to the side panels for additional elbow room while driving.
Ed
I’m 6’00 and 190 lbs and I fit in my PFM with room to spare. I have to take my tennis shoes off to get my feet on the pedals. With racing shoes it’s fine.
Never heard of a PFM FV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extreme1
Dang Greg, you simply haven’t lived…
Imagine the outright, blinding speed of a Vee at the expense of a Pro FM.
*Everyone* would buy one. :ha:
Ha ha, this is funny!
I think the gentleman might be abbreviating Protoform?
But if not, we always had FM or PFM at work. Pure Effing Magic...:)
Ya know, when things magically fix themselves!
I sense some deepening confusion between PEM, PFM, FM, FV, etc.
But no judgment here whatsoever. :ha:
I expect the gentlemen was referring to ProFormulaMazda and was making the suggestion that selection of race shoes will help with fitting, which is certainly true. My team actually carries a set of very trim size 10 racing shoes that many of our drivers have borrowed over the years to do their first race with us. Formula car drivers should be selective when shopping for shoes in a way that tin top drivers don't.
One point I will contest is D-13 being good for bigger drivers. They all had front roll hoops added and many were restrictive to driver size. The footbox was wide but low, so you needed to drive with your feet at 10 and 2 o'clock (about 90 degrees of tow out.