Getting the 494's back on track (continued)

I was back reading some posts regarding what it would take to get the 494's back on track.

I read this from B17Overhead:

"This may be one of those times where one should resort to a more surgical study of the problem to properly find a solution.
In other words, get the list of names and contact info on those 100 old 494/493 "small-motored" car owners and call them up or mail/email each and every one.

One on one interchange also would allow a more candid conversation with each than a public forum like this one permits as well as providing more solid statistical data.

1. One potentially better solution to hard compound tires is to look into bulk buy discounts of the one most popular compound.

2. Organizing a network of "hand-me-down" fresh used tires would also help.

In every class, there are those can afford new tires more often than they wear out in order to ensure the potential to run at the very top all the time.

They can do their part to save F500 from extinction by arranging for those in need to take the "gently used" ones off their hands for little or no cost.

3. Organize a network of "tow buddies" These are small cars and there may be a lot of untapped opportunities for sharing a trailer, fuel costs, and driving chores

A new forum heading might be requested on Apexspeed called something like "Tow share". There, one could post on an ongoing basis things like "I'm in the St. Paul area, anyone want to share a space in my trailer and split fuel costs and driving chores to COTA next month?"

So I was thinking about this... what about an "Adopt a Racer"? Sounds like a good idea. Help get the cars that are buried in garages to get back on track. I know that overall car counts are low and the class could use the numbers.

One of my issues is that myself, on my budget, can't compete with National level drivers. So my ambition is to just run regionals. Why would I want to go to Major level events in my 494 and compete with the mega teams with their mega dollars?

A help network would be awesome. Maybe even lend a wrench to help someone at the shop to get it rolling.

494/493 Challenge?

John,

You and others have come up with some great ideas to make our class participation numbers improve. I really like the tow/trailer sharing idea, I think this could help some people with the high costs of getting to the races. The only issue I see is, and I will use my current situation as an example. I have a 20' enclosed trailer, my car is about 12 feet long without the nose on it. I have a 3' deep workbench in the front of the trailer, a yamaha scooter, roll around tool box, spare parts, and a large car lift I must bring to every race. Basically, I couldn't fit another car in my trailer unless a stacker system was installed, and I'm not interested in all that work for such little return. Even if I did build a stacker there would be very little room left for the 2nd cars spare parts. I don't know too many people that have a 28' or longer trailer in F500 with only 1 car. Clint McMahon and his Dad have a sweet trailer/truck setup that can carry 5 cars I believe, but they have also invested a lot of money and time in order to setup their rig so nicely. I personally though, could not justify buying a 1 ton truck and a bigger trailer in order to save $50 in gas to get to Mid Ohio or Gingerman 3-5 times/year. I'm sure there are people that could benefit from sharing, but I am probably not one of them.

I will begin posting my 5-8 heat cycle tires for sale on Apex now that it seems people may be interested in them.

-Eric :checkered:

I think that the issues with so few 500cc 2 strokes running is due to a couple of issues.

1. The 593 engine is now the performance target for the F500 class and there is simply no way that a bone stock 500cc engine at 800 lbs can complete with the HP of a 593 at 850 lbs or an MC powered car at 875 lb.

2. The 494 engine is now out of production and parts are getting harder to get. We should allow more aftermarket parts as needed, within reason, of course.

I think that the 494 should be the performance target for the class.this should be technically easy to do by increasing the minimum weight of the 593 to the 875 lbs of the MC engined cars and then reducing the restrictor sizes for both the 593 and the MC powered cars as needed to have parity

I think some variation on the above suggestion will help help F500 class entries and it will be easy to make the 494 and the 493 competitive.

Eric, could definitely use a couple more sets of tires. I got two chassis in my purchase with no tires. Can use two sets easy!. I still have to buy a set of rains yet!

When Jon Dick and I ran together for four years we stacked two cars in a 24ft trailer. it wasn't a pretty setup and involved a lot of muscle and lifting to load and unload. I was 30 years old and pretty strong than, my back couldn't do it now. To further Eric's point, the only way we made this work was the fact we both ran the same Invader chassis so spares and things could be carried for both of us. We thankfully both never needed the same part, I wrecked way more than Jon did.

I'd say run the 500cc motor at Mid Ohio in whatever race is there. The times are still not that far off from where they were 10 years ago for the majority of drivers. The pointy end has had some decrease in lap times, Mid Ohio being the example, but Elivan ran a 1:31 in 2003 on the long course in a 494 Invader. Edwards would always rum 1:32's. Race it, have fun, get laps, and get better.

I'd be more than happy to help you with information on your cars. We won two Runoffs and built three of them.


JN Swank

I guess one of the advantages I get with people moving up to 593's and 600's is that I can get 494 discards for greatly reduced costs. I've already been able to build up my stocks.

I have a 28ft trailer than can haul 4 cars and 24 or more tires . It has a work bench in it and a big craftsman tool box. New tires ,rims,brakes,bearings and a level load system if someone is interested in it. It's a double axle.

I have written a CRB letter requesting that the 500cc 2 stroke powered cars become the performance target for the clas. This would require further restrictions on the 593 and the 600cc mc engines.

I am hopeing that the CRB will consider this! If you think that this idea has merit please write a letter to the crb.. I have also asked that an F500 ad hoc committee be formed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jnovak

I have written a CRB letter requesting that the 500cc 2 stroke powered cars become the performance target for the clas. This would require further restrictions on the 593 and the 600cc mc engines.

I am hopeing that the CRB will consider this! If you think that this idea has merit please write a letter to the crb.. I have also asked that an F500 ad hoc committee be formed.

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I thought the guys running 593/600's were already complaining about the restrictors placed on the engines and the harm they do.

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Originally Posted by j mcfarland

I thought the guys running 593/600's were already complaining about the restrictors placed on the engines and the harm they do.

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the MC motors reliability is not affected by the use of restrictors to my knowledge. We ran a 593 in one race in 2014. The Runoffs which Brian won leading every lap from the pole and fastest in every session. We NEVER changed the jets but we did adjust the clutchs every session trying to get to the sweet spot.

So i cannot really say much about reliability because we only ran the Runoffs. I still think that a properly prepared F500 with a Brad 593 motor is the best performance combination in the class!

The question is who is still running them and who are the ones that have cars sitting idle. If they remain sitting idle it only hurts the class. Need to reach out to them and get them back out. I hope to have my MK5 out on track this year and my MK7 done over off-season next year. I have three 494 engines so that is my direction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j mcfarland

The question is who is still running them and who are the ones that have cars sitting idle. If they remain sitting idle it only hurts the class. Need to reach out to them and get them back out. I hope to have my MK5 out on track this year and my MK7 done over off-season next year. I have three 494 engines so that is my direction.

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where are you located John?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j mcfarland

I thought the guys running 593/600's were already complaining about the restrictors placed on the engines and the harm they do.

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The restrictors themselves don't do any harm. The problem is the effort and cost it takes to run the car on a dyno with a new restrictor size in order to develop new fuel mapping to keep the AFR's happy.

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Originally Posted by Jnovak

where are you located John?

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I'm in NE Ohio. Jeff Blumenthal is close running the same type of chassis but is damn near impossible to track down once the season starts. He seems to be doing solo pretty much anymore. He's a good resource when I get hold of him. But I feel I'm on my own here most of the time.

This conversation should focus on how to get the 494 guys back on track. Not so much the engine upgrade discussion but finding the idle cars/drivers, getting them back to regionals so that fields can be built up. If they feel they want to get the 593/600 upgrade and go Majors, fine. Not everyone is gung-ho Majors! I don't even want to go there. A 593 upgrade would be nice, but I plan on getting two cars out on a minimum budget. Cast off parts are fine for me!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j mcfarland

I'm in NE Ohio. Jeff Blumenthal is close running the same type of chassis but is damn near impossible to track down once the season starts. He seems to be doing solo pretty much anymore. He's a good resource when I get hold of him. But I feel I'm on my own here most of the time.

This conversation should focus on how to get the 494 guys back on track. Not so much the engine upgrade discussion but finding the idle cars/drivers, getting them back to regionals so that fields can be built up. If they feel they want to get the 593/600 upgrade and go Majors, fine. Not everyone is gung-ho Majors! I don't even want to go there. A 593 upgrade would be nice, but I plan on getting two cars out on a minimum budget. Cast off parts are fine for me!

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keep up the great work John. I have a few 494 engine parts in the shop. I will look them up and let you know.

On anothe note i think that a bunch of older F500s with 494s are noe running solo!

I managed to track down a couple of guys nearby that will be returning with there cars in Ohio. I am going to start buckling down hard on getting mine in shape to try to make the track this upcoming season. It's been idle for so long. Every part needs to be reviewed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j mcfarland

I managed to track down a couple of guys nearby that will be returning with there cars in Ohio. I am going to start buckling down hard on getting mine in shape to try to make the track this upcoming season. It's been idle for so long. Every part needs to be reviewed.

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this is always a huge amount of time and money and work!

Never surrender!

I run a 494 non-rave