Going to Vintage Race - Get SCCA Novice Permit?

I just finished up the Lucas Oil Basic School at PBIR. Event was very well run, organized, with lots of instructor interaction and feedback. My first ever "arrive and drive" situation. While my racing budget will never allow for that to be the norm, I can certainly see the appeal. Mechanics everywhere to help, adjust what needs adjusting, etc. Hospitality team keeping you well fed and hydrated. The SaDev tranny in the school car would take some serious getting used to for. No lift up shifts are fun, but the auto-blipping downshifts feel like cheating :-) The classroom content was very basic, but since it's been more than a decade since I've been in a formula car, the track time was a very helpful refresher / confidence boost. No problem driving the line, too conservative to be fast, coasting too much after after high speed braking so nothing has apparently changed.

Anyway, to the question. I plan to only race my new to me 81 VD FF in vintage races in the SE. Is there even a reason to use my fancy new (and expensively obtained) certificate to get an SCCA Novice Permit? I won't meet the 3 regional race weekend requirements to get my full SCCA Comp License, so it would expire in 24 months anyway. I could get an SCCA Vintage license, but it's unclear to me what purpose that serves.

The GCR says you can use a VMC license at any regional level SCCA event anyway, so I'm struggling to find a reason to even apply for a novice permit.

Thanks!

Unless I missed something here, why not just get a vintage license like SVRA, VRG or other. They generally accept each others licenses. I've used my SVRA license at VRG and other events. :greenflag:

I obtained a VMC recognized license through VSCDA after participating in their driver school. I was actually able to get a national full competition license from SCCA for this year by requesting a waiver and showing full race history for last 3 years, writing an explanation letter.
I don't think there is any need to get SCCA credentials if you have no plans to race SCCA, and if your plans change, you can always get SCCA based on a VMC license and a good clean history.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Z.

Unless I missed something here, why not just get a vintage license like SVRA, VRG or other. They generally accept each others licenses. I've used my SVRA license at VRG and other events. :greenflag:

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Vintage Motorsports Council is the organization that sees over the regional and national vintage groups allowing those licenses to be used in other groups. They can also report bad driving back to all the groups.

just get a license through the vintage club you intend to run with. Then use it to run selected SCCA races under the alternative license program if you want to run SCCA events.

Come out very early to PBIR this Sunday. SCCA is running their Vintage grid. You can talk to the Drivers and find out their Licenses and also talk to Stewards about the various licenses recognized. Also go to motorsportsreg.com and find this PBIR event....read the SUPPS for what it says about Licenses. I'll be in the Yellow Formula Continental in the Wings and Things grid

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Originally Posted by EYERACE

Come out very early to PBIR this Sunday. SCCA is running their Vintage grid. You can talk to the Drivers and find out their Licenses and also talk to Stewards about the various licenses recognized. Also go to motorsportsreg.com and find this PBIR event....read the SUPPS for what it says about Licenses. I'll be in the Yellow Formula Continental in the Wings and Things grid

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I just flew back from Miami on Friday night so I don't think I'll be returning quite that soon, but thanks for the offer. Y'all were loading in as we were leaving. The Supps for that event look to read like the GCR, which is that a VMC license is accepted, so there really doesn't appear to be a reason for me to get an SCCA license, as I have zero plans to run at a National event.

Don't forget this group...., member of VMC, racer run, great folks, reasonable costs. Their finale is at Roebling Road (Sav.) in early Dec. (Same weekend as PRI in INDY). Go visit and see, plus might get in on a good meal.

Okie.

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Originally Posted by Bob L.

Don't forget this group...., member of VMC, racer run, great folks, reasonable costs. Their finale is at Roebling Road (Sav.) in early Dec. (Same weekend as PRI in INDY). Go visit and see, plus might get in on a good meal.

Okie.

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I'm in regular contact with Mike J, and I know the Fairchilds from a previous life, so I've talking with Scott as well. Assuming I get through a physical in a week or so, I plan to come down and anchor the back of the FF pack for the weekend.

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Originally Posted by wake74

Is there even a reason to use my fancy new (and expensively obtained) certificate to get an SCCA Novice Permit? I won't meet the 3 regional race weekend requirements to get my full SCCA Comp License, so it would expire in 24 months anyway. I could get an SCCA Vintage license, but it's unclear to me what purpose that serves. The GCR says you can use a VMC license at any regional level SCCA event anyway, so I'm struggling to find a reason to even apply for a novice permit.

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This is exactly the reason I see no point in doing any road racing with SCCA. Unless you have the time/money to devote 5+ full weekends a year, it's not worth it.

The licensing is what is killing the SCCA's numbers. There's plenty of new people willing to give it a try, but not everyone has a insane hobby budget.

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Originally Posted by OneWayOut

This is exactly the reason I see no point in doing any road racing with SCCA. Unless you have the time/money to devote 5+ full weekends a year, it's not worth it.

The licensing is what is killing the SCCA's numbers. There's plenty of new people willing to give it a try, but not everyone has a insane hobby budget.

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So $100/year is a budget killer? I thought I was on a tight budget.
I don't think that is driving people away. And if it is they won't like entry fees.

So what are you saying? Vintage is for occasional drivers?

You are correct. You do need to run 5 weekends each year. I did for the first time this year and the improvements are noticeable.

But even with the certificate the vintage group will require their school, right?

I got my SCCA license first and I see no reason to let it go. Every organization will accept it, as far as I know. I've had many years where I've not been able to race or maybe only 1 or 2 events and I renewed without any drama. I know I've had to ask someone (the RE?) to sign off but that was all done by email and completed in less than 24 hours. The SCCA folks treat me well and I've always been happy they are there!

Having said that, I'd suggest that if you are determined to only do Vintage on treads, there is no reason to join SCCA. The 81 VD is a GREAT CF and at RRR and even Road Atlanta, SCCA is way cheaper than SVRA or HSR! The R60 slicks are also a lot of fun! There are a couple of very fast VD drivers who are usually very friendly and helpful too.

I think VDCA is a good deal too but I've only dipped my toe into Vintage during 2019 and did HSR at Barber earlier this year. Hopefully I'll continue to expand my horizons in 2022 and VDCA is on the list.

My question wasn't to imply the relative value of the SCCA vs other organizations. In my specific case, the cost of the SCCA application and the yearly membership is a non-issue. I'm as frugal as an (ex)Yankee as you can get but my budget isn't so tight that that moves the needle.

Maybe I just need to reach out to the SCCA directly, but I believe as I read the GCR, that I can get my Novice Permit, based upon the completion of a recognized race school, plus the medical application plus a wee bit of money. However, unless I compete in the required number of SCCA events, my Novice Permit will not be upgraded to a Full Comp License, and will expire by default in 2 years.

I also understand that I can use Vintage Events to "maintain" an SCCA Comp License, but it doesn't appear I can use participation in such events to go from an SCCA Novice to Comp License.

Usually, after some number of vintage races you can ask your regional licensing guy for a SCCA regional (or whatever it is now) comp license.

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Originally Posted by wake74

My question wasn't to imply the relative value of the SCCA vs other organizations. In my specific case, the cost of the SCCA application and the yearly membership is a non-issue. I'm as frugal as an (ex)Yankee as you can get but my budget isn't so tight that that moves the needle.

Maybe I just need to reach out to the SCCA directly, but I believe as I read the GCR, that I can get my Novice Permit, based upon the completion of a recognized race school, plus the medical application plus a wee bit of money. However, unless I compete in the required number of SCCA events, my Novice Permit will not be upgraded to a Full Comp License, and will expire by default in 2 years.

I also understand that I can use Vintage Events to "maintain" an SCCA Comp License, but it doesn't appear I can use participation in such events to go from an SCCA Novice to Comp License.

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Talk to the regional licensing person. They will be your guide. They have the authority to qualify your experience and/or waive experience requirements.

The ONLY disadvantage I know of regarding an 'other club' license is they don't allow you to run SCCA Majors/SuperTour events.
Otherwise accepted at all regionals, etc. ( with the weekend fee ;) )

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Originally Posted by BeerBudgetRacing

The ONLY disadvantage I know of regarding an 'other club' license is they don't allow you to run SCCA Majors/SuperTour events. Otherwise accepted at all regionals, etc. ( with the weekend fee ;) )

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I have my faults, but self awareness isn't one of them. I was slow (and safe / consistent) when I raced with the FRCCA, I was slow as an HPDE guy the last few years, I was slow at Comp School. I'll be slow when I start Vintage Racing :) I have zero interest in running a Majors / Runoff type event. To me racing is really a way to spend some time in the shop, hang out with friends, make some new ones, etc., I just don't have that ultra-competitive mentality when it comes to my automotive hobby. I'd be faster if I did, but I know I don't and it doesn't bother me at all. Plenty of work stress in my life, stressing about not being at the front of the pack isn't part of the appeal of the hobby to me. No knock against those who strive for that last tenth, there wouldn't be a back of the pack for me, if there wasn't also a front of the pack :-)

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Originally Posted by wake74

.. there wouldn't be a back of the pack for me, if there wasn't also a front of the pack :-)

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Welcome! You'll be fine.

I know of no Vintage organization that has what the SCCA has when it comes to Medical Insurance on the Driver when on track. Most any thing in the Vintage world that I at least know of has the thought of > Your Medical Insurance covers you when you're out there maybe, so we don't have any specific coverage on you. The SCCA has their own Medical Policy on the Driver so that someone injured pays as little as possible....and they have a two year Disability Policy on you too. Example: Following a Sebring shunt many years ago when I didn't walk for three months, had to lay flat on my back for over a week in the hospital at first and an ambulance bill (Sebring to Orlando ER room 85 miles) too, two separate operations weeks apart and rehab came to about a quarter of a million dollars. I think I paid a total out-of-pocket of about $225.00. Something to think about.....but then again Vintage racers suffer from a lot less "red mist"

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Originally Posted by EYERACE

I know of no Vintage organization that has what the SCCA has when it comes to Medical Insurance on the Driver when on track.

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I don't always race, but when I do, I race SCCA. (for the reason Eyerace states above.)