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I am thinking real hard of hanging up this hobby, I stopped entering The Monterey Reunion years ago because it became a real Circus, Now SVRA has become the latest Circus with a price tag of 1345.00 at Laguna Wow!!!!!!
I may just run my Penske RT5 , and Swift 016 at Track Days smaller crowds and just fun driving.
Am I nuts or does anyone else feel this way ?
Dee
DeeQuote:
Originally Posted by Dee
Racing has become very expansive in the past year! My tire cost rose $400 per set, fuel has always been high, entry fees have also increased. Thank goodness on the later front my local vintage club (RMVR) still has reasonable fees. They average around $400 a weekend. I know SVRA was $1000 a weekend 2 years ago. Perhaps a local club would be less expensive.and smaller crowds? I also have a track day car and it’s fun but nothing really scratches that itch like racing.
Best
Tom
On the flip side... your 016 probably costs $2000/hour to run between tires, gearbox rebuild amortization, and engine rebuild amortization plus consumables and breakage. It's also a car worth well north of $100k - so it's costing you $10k+ per year in opportunity cost by tying up that much money (or interest cost if on a loan). Then there's the cost in fuel for the tow rig, hotels, crew, so on.
Is a $1,350 entry fee really the barrier here?
-Mark
Entry fees are certainly rising. You mentioned RMMR, this year they are double the entry fee of 2019. Crazy. I can't afford that and with the spectator prices, I'm pretty sure I'm done spectating. It was a good run, from 1983 or 84 until 2019.
But it also seems to be track dependant. There are a couple of SVRA events that are $595. I think SCCA Regionals are the cheapest now although some of the smaller Vintage organizations have reasonable pricing on some events. I guess I need to be nmore picky and precise where I spend my money because I'm not quitting yet. My boys will probably be fine without an inheritance.
DEE: It will be cheaper if you pare it down to only one car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee
I agree in general with the expense comment, plus the hassle factor that seems to be getting worse every year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee
However, the main thing that keeps me racing is the desire to test myself against others in competition. A close second is that I enjoy the engineering aspect of car setup.
My car was pretty reasonable to run in terms of cost but other than my age, entry fees, $5 gallon gas with 10 mpg towing, hotel costs, long tows here on the West Coast were the deciding factor in retiring. I'm sure Dave W remembers when Regional SCCA entry fees were $40! Maybe a big bucks National was $50-60! Miss it, you bet but reality has to fit in somewhere!
Add to that the cost of "restoring" a barn find to the current specs (Fire Bottle, Fuel Cell and Engine/Gearbox rebuild. Tires extra. More if there is any repair.). Then add the Personal Equipment as well. If I get lucky, with the RV I can get out of a regional south of $1000 less tires and fuel.
I spent 10 years or so in various leadership roles in DC Region, a jumbo region with a significant racing program. Entry fees always generated the most discussion/argument at annual planning meetings, and at meeting with drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67
Entry fees and gasoline prices were top-of-brain when racers talked talked about expenses. A $25 increase in a MARRS entry fee generated enormous pushback, even though it represented a trivial percentage of most drivers' total expense.
I suspect that the reason was that these two items are so visible.
Jerry, I am right there with you I am tired of the load , travel and stress of towing a 67 ft rig Jerry, I remember racing with you at Auto Club when I had my RT 41 , but at 76 its time to move on .
Dee
Penske RT5
Swift 016
It is easy to point a finger at inflationary prices with regard to racing. Entry fees, a starter, a flywheel, brake pads, etc. They have all increased by some percentage. But, the costs are more noticeable because they are usually larger expenses in relation to other things in daily life.
How many have calculated what they are actually paying for all the cell phones they have? How many aps are siphoning money from your account $1 at a time? Just how fast of internet speed is it that you really need vs. what you are paying for? Oh, and gotta have that sat TV. Or if not, then 15 subscriptions to streaming that when added together probably cost more than sat TV.
Has anyone sat back and done percentage increase analysis of groceries that go in your house? What about cost increase that is all but too apparent in restaurants? I have. The results of comparison: I attend as many race events as my job and schedule allow. Just like I always have. Restaurants.... I attend less now than I ever have.
:checkered:
I thought it was a bit steep plus joining SVRA added to that and practice on Thursday was another add. Sure it's another day of practice but spending nearly $2,000 to enter a one race seemed a bit over the top. Contrast that with my normal racing with ProAutoSports in AZ entry fee for two days is $350 and membership is $150. But for a one time splurge, to cross Laguna Seca off my bucket list it was worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee
I'll guess the former cheap trophies are now bigger and nicer trophies ??
One cost that is never given to an entrant is just how much is the insurance premium part of the weekend paid by the sanctioning body related to that event.......believe me....they're going through the roof.
Yo! ...third rock....third stone....you are not nuts.....you are observant.
Dave hit the nail squarely on the head for me. And while 10 laps over 2 days at COTA in November with, at that moment, an ill handling car was truly annoying, it's all the effort surrounding racing that is making it a more arduous process. The moments I'm in the car are sure bliss, and no different from the first lap at Le Circuit in '78. Everything else to get to that point is a colossal pain in the ass. Limiting yourself to one car makes things cheaper and CF makes it a whole lot easier too.
I solved this problem to my satisfaction (may not be for others)
I have been racing since 1982, SCCA, IMSA etc...
Like Dave said, at this point I want to challenge myself and I love working on the car. I am finding that vintage events that accept my RF93 are perfect.
Blackhawk Farms with Midwest Council & VSCDA is a lot more affordable than places like Road America. Although I manage to afford at least one event there each year.
I enjoy finding someone to race regardless of budget, new tires or old, no matter. At 72 I just want to have fun, challenge myself and hope to continue until my eternal dirt nap occurs.
I notice that there is a SEVEN (or higher) at the beginning of the ages mentioned here. Pretty sure THAT'S the biggest issue going here. 40 years ago, I would put up with a LOT more Z*it than I desire now. That's the biggest issue why membership, driver participation and other stuff is going DOWN -> therefore.. PRICES continue to escalate since fewer drivers are willing to spend that much MONEY and TIME (regardless of availability of both) - self included.
RETIREMENT is sounding more and more attractive despite the desire to DRIVE FAST and 'compete'.. I seem to NOT do those things quite as well any more either :(.
Steve, FV80
…hey… at least the pay out for winning has remained consistent….
Dee,Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee
So why not ditch the massive rig, downsize the racing fleet to maybe just the Swift, pick up a 20' trailer (I am guessing you already have a pick up truck) and bring the whole she-bang way down in terms of simplicity, ease, running costs, capital, etc? I can only imagine all the gear in the current rig, the canopy, etc. Get an EZ-up and go.
This is basically my set up for the last 30 years (although it is a30' trailer with an 8' breakfast nook/bed/fridge/heater up front - that has paid for itself many times over). I can load up everything I need for a weekend in under 2 hours by myself, although I will admit that I am getting slightly slower at this.
Maybe a more minimalist approach will relieve the frustration enough to let you maximize the enjoyment of your remaining 15 years of racing ?
best,
bt
The older I get......the faster I was.
.........and then there's the don't-race-anymore-Stewards.
I can actually remember $25 entry fees and $5 motel rooms back when I started in 1968 !! We actually camped (pup-tent & sleeping bag) most of our 1st & 2nd year racing. Towed a small open trailer (FV) with Sherrie's Nova.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Kehoe
OK, Dave. You win!. Nobody can top that for "Back in the day."
Hi guys , I have really enjoyed reading the comments I think I will just keep going until something stops me :checkered:
I 've been lucky enough to race In the air ( Reno, Mojave) Yacht race ,and vintage Auto race, I think I just needed validation, thanks
Dee
Nicely put :checkered:
There are folks who think it went downhill when we all got enclosed trailers.Quote:
Originally Posted by LenFC11
40 foot motorhomes to haul a B spec.
For some midwest guys, you may remember a guy who had a full tractor trailer, a crew of 6, a Indy team level pit setup, and a spare car- all for a Spec Racer.
I'm 11 years behind Dave, but the same story except we started in a Ford station wagon .. and it wasn't Sherrie's :D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert J. Alder
Steve, FV80
John, hope to see you April 28th!Quote:
Originally Posted by John Green
Bruce
I started in early 70's towing my FV with a 1971 Mercury Capri. Everything fit in the car including my rain tires that were street tires
removed from my 1961 street VW.
I've always taken some pride in winning with one of the lowest budget operations on the grid. I run my vintage Club Ford (Lola T340) out of a 16 foot trailer towed by a 2014 Honda Odyssey minivan. I don't feel like I am missing much by not having a big rig.
I would love to drive some faster cars - vintage Formula Atlantic, vintage 2-liter sports racer, F5000(?) but for now, I'm driving the fastest car that I can afford and doing it very economically.
There has been MANY times since I started running FV/FF/FC that I have wanted to "move up". Fortunately, I heeded the advice of "only purchase a car you can afford to RUN"...Quote:
Originally Posted by s800racer
....or crash.Quote:
Originally Posted by -pru-
Dave. You win!. Nobody can top that for "Back in the day."
Back in the 60s there was a guy, from I believe Akron,OH, that had lights, turn signals and a muffler on his Formcar FV. He would show up at Nelson Ledges, remove all the street stuff, unpack his pup tent and race the entire weekend. Sunday afternoon he would reinstall the streel equipment and drive home... Even cheaper than the $5.00 motel and Sherrie's Nova... Ah for the old days
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry H
"Never put a car on the race track that you can't afford to push off a cliff"
I remember that. No details though.Quote:
Originally Posted by grapefarmeral
People talking about a pickup truck, single car trailer and sleeping at the track like it's something people aren't still doing. :confused:
An old friend named Rubenzer or somethinorother told me a great story the other day about being able to sleep on someone’s trailer floor instead of his old and trusted tent, and it feeling like a Hilton.
Such unpampered types are what the sport needs many more of, if not why it’s slowly choking now.
Either it’s about doing anything to go fast, or bragging at gas stations how fast it’ll go.