MC Drive Invention Challenge

I am throwing this out there to see what can be done better.

Presently, due to the 80" wheelbase, F600's are driven via chain either straight back from the PTO to the axle or forward from the PTO to a jackshaft then back to the axle.

What about inventing/fabricating a third choice? This will be a tough one for the obvious reasons as you see the challenge:

Three gears straight back from the PTO -
1st one is the PTO gear itself
Middle is a gear to correct direction of rotation
Rear is the axle gear.

The challenge - how to hold it in place as the axle moves up/down and at an angle as one tire gets higher than the other AND do this at a rock bottom price.

I suspect that the FSAE teams have already come up with the solution at some time in their competition history.

If an elegant and cost effective solution can be had then the whole F600 class will be transformed.

Let the brainstorming begin!

Jim

Or you could just increase the wheelbase a few inches :)

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Originally Posted by SEComposites

Or you could just increase the wheelbase a few inches :)

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Now that!s a great idea. Too bad the club did not approve it. That said we have figured out how to make a direct drive work with no problems. Our NovaKar F600 has well over 500 laps both testing and racing with the same direct drive chain and sprockets.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

The day Jay announced the F600 concept, my first email to him was about increasing the damn wheelbase.

Jay, is a true gentleman, he politely replied that he had to hold to the F5 wheelbase to get any kind of acceptance from the Club.

Sort of a shame, for a longer wheelbase would not only add some stability, but make it possible for full figured folks to fit in one. ;)

F1 cars also would look a lot different if it were not for the damn rules. ;)

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Originally Posted by Purple Frog

The day Jay announced the F600 concept, my first email to him was about increasing the damn wheelbase.

Jay, is a true gentleman, he politely replied that he had to hold to the F5 wheelbase to get any kind of acceptance from the Club.

Sort of a shame, for a longer wheelbase would not only add some stability, but make it possible for full figured folks to fit in one. ;)

F1 cars also would look a lot different if it were not for the damn rules. ;)

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I am 6'3" 250 lb former football player and I fit in our Scorpion just fine. It is all about moving the steering wheel, pedals, seat and bars to where they need to be for your body shape. The key to the Scorpion is that it is has a sports car nose which allows the two upper main frame rails to be horizontally farther apart from the footbox all the way back to the main roll hoop (no needle nose) thus a wide hip/shoulder person like myself drops right in. Please note that I have not been affected by the 80" wheelbase whatsoever.

Jim

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Originally Posted by Purple Frog

The day Jay announced the F600 concept, my first email to him was about increasing the damn wheelbase.

Jay, is a true gentleman, he politely replied that he had to hold to the F5 wheelbase to get any kind of acceptance from the Club.

Sort of a shame, for a longer wheelbase would not only add some stability, but make it possible for full figured folks to fit in one. ;)

F1 cars also would look a lot different if it were not for the damn rules. ;)

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Both of you gentlemen are forgetting that the FSRAC and the CRB were prepared to back Jay's initial request for a longer wb, and that it was the BoD who insisted on the 'F500 with a 600cc m/c engine' configuration.

You are totally correct Stan, another case of brain fade. I certainly should have mentioned that is was the BOD who would not allow for an increased WB.

Thanks ... Jay

Getting back to the gear drive issue. There was a FSAE car in 1991 that did use a gear instead of a chain drive. As I recall they also use one way clutches (two in total) instead of a dfferential in the car. I am thinking this was Milwaukee School of Engineering but I could be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mark_Silverberg

Getting back to the gear drive issue. There was a FSAE car in 1991 that did use a gear instead of a chain drive. As I recall they also use one way clutches (two in total) instead of a dfferential in the car. I am thinking this was Milwaukee School of Engineering but I could be wrong.

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Independent rear suspension. a much easier design task.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

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Originally Posted by Jnovak

Independent rear suspension. a much easier design task.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

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You are, of course, correct. But even with the IRS the only FSAE gear solution I saw was far from convincing.

I still think it would be cool to turn the engine around and use two more sprockets, but I guess that violates the "clarified" rules.

As a newcomer who aspires to build a car for fun, I can tell you that the rear-end of the F600 is the most off-putting feature. Jackshafts, multi-link, watts/panhard/novak linkage, and no diff requiring lifting of the inside tire? I know this is supposed to be cheaper and easier to design than an open diff with IRS, but it seems to require a lot of custom parts. Used quaiffes are pretty cheap, and IRS would allow for running effectively on cheaper tires. Or at least that's how I understand it :)

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Originally Posted by wulfgang

I still think it would be cool to turn the engine around and use two more sprockets, but I guess that violates the "clarified" rules.

As a newcomer who aspires to build a car for fun, I can tell you that the rear-end of the F600 is the most off-putting feature. Jackshafts, multi-link, watts/panhard/novak linkage, and no diff requiring lifting of the inside tire? I know this is supposed to be cheaper and easier to design than an open diff with IRS, but it seems to require a lot of custom parts. Used quaiffes are pretty cheap, and IRS would allow for running effectively on cheaper tires. Or at least that's how I understand it :)

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F600 and F500 cars are actually very amazing and effective race cars. Many years of continued design and development work have produced great handling race cars. A perfect example of how efective they are is to check out the lap record. You will find that F600 and F500 lap records are right at FF lap records.

Give them a try, you will be amazed.

Thanks ... Jay Novak