Before:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/lol...8/t530-8ss.htm
A few years later
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/lo...66455170ss.htm
Airplane prices are down big, but vintage prices stay high and in this case, double
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Before:
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/lol...8/t530-8ss.htm
A few years later
http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/lo...66455170ss.htm
Airplane prices are down big, but vintage prices stay high and in this case, double
Note to self: Show wife this thread. Vintage race cars are where its at. Stocks are too unpredictable.
vehicle simply under-priced first time around....no actual appreciation
This is an interisting topic. I have been reciently shopping for a fast vintage racer (1970-1990's formula or sportsracer) and have been watching prices of similar cars for the last 20 years of so. Asking prices almost across the board, are at all-time highs, why is that the case when every other asset and collectable on the planet is down big time from a few years ago? Are cars actually selling at these prices or are the owners just not facing reality? After contacting a few owners I found that all of them seem to be waiting for demand to improve and are sticking to thier price. I think prices should be more like they were in 1995 or so. I have given up on my search for now as my 100k racecar could easily drop in value by 50% I think it is a bubble as everyone in the game is waiting for better times which I do not believe will come for many years.
apparently the kiwi and ozland boys had the coin recently
sportsracers seem a better bet (compare prancing horse closed vs. open prices)
spec cars are going to kill the market (although 962 and McLaren Can-Am were "spec")
later tech F1 with unavaliable engines are useless
Cosworth "era" F1 should be pushing into the WWII figter aircraft price range
lets just hope some wealthy communist red Chinese "entrepenuers" get the bug
I think a lot of the market for these types of cars is driven by the cycle of the population who has interest in them and are at a financial point in their lives to acquire the toys of their youth. The muscle car boom driven by baby boomers is a perfect example, and it was preceeded by a boom in street rods by an older generation. Mix in a bubble in the finanacial and real estate markets and prices rose to unsustainable heights. Some iconic cars will always have a strong market, but most others are greatly affected by the status of the generation they appealed to when new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy O'Brien
those posts were over eight years apart, That car has had $200,000 in restoration and improvements since the first post.
Marc Sproule,
Is that the "Fast Lane Summer" car?
http://www.race-cars.com/carsold/lol...s/530vdsss.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by provamo
I guess that one was underpriced also.
I saw a 530 at a vintage race a few years ago. Pictures do not do them justice as to how absolutely huge these cars are.
Pretty sure it is. Got the book and I think they only had one 530 after giving up on the Intrepid.Quote:
Originally Posted by provamo
Yup.
We had a fellow racing one of the Can-Am Frissbee's out here that was unrestored but running every race. He retired about 2 years ago and had it for sale for $70,000. Not sure he ever sold it as he 'loved' that car.
But with the loss of that one to the club, Jackson Dean brought in Al Unser Jr. Frissbee totally restored (and blazing fast). Races against Jackie Stewarts Tyrrell F1 car driven by a very good/fast driver. The Frissbee cleans his clock.
Lucky to have Jackson Dean out here. They also bring the very rare Shadow DN11 F1 car and George Fullmers UOP Shadow Can-Am car to the game. When they talked to George about the car he warned them... DOWNSIZE the turbo chargers! The car is so fast it's almost impossible to drive! The also have a Chevron F5000 car that runs regularly.
When the Chevron F5000 runs against the Tyrrell F1, it's a tight race.
11 car stable and all fantastic machines in perfect condition:
http://www.jdcracing.com/TheCARS/tabid/54/Default.aspx
Yes, that Lola 530 with a good history is under priced. IF it's in good shape.
The Lola 530 listed has a 415 cube motor with EFI, not exactly period correct and I hope it has had trans and axles beefed up or someone is going to crash thier 190k "investment". There has been a nice McLaren 8F(a REAL CanAm car) for sale on racecars for several years at 225k and no takers, THAT car might be worth it. I totally agree with the comment about the demographics, the guys that lust after this type of car are fast approaching 60+ years of age, how many of those can physically handle these cars even if they have the money, and there are now lots fewer old guys that do have the money in this economy.
rickb99 thanks for the heads up on those cars!
check this out:
http://www.mathewscollection.com/about.htm
Wow indeed nice collection. Does Mathews ever put them on the track?Quote:
Originally Posted by provamo
We have a Northwest fellow who brought out one of the $6,000,000 plus Ferrari Testa Rosa's at our historics in 2009 and YES, he seriously raced it. Ohh, man that sound of the V-12 Testa Rosa engine cannot be beat.
Paddy, Here's a rare beast at a decent price :)
http://www.mathewscollection.com/car...php?listing=56
Rick you are torturing me, I have always wanted a real two seat big engine Can-Am car but the idea of being on track with something worth more than my house would be too stressful! I have noticed that sometimes when these types of cars are sold at an auction bargans can be had. About three years ago at an auction in Michigan a genuine properly restored McLaren 6B went for 85k. Then at auction just last year a genuine Penske 1969 LolaT163/chevy that Donohue drove went for well under 100k. So I am waiting, before I get too old and die I must get a real CanAm car. Thus I am hoping for a much worse economy!
Cars only worth big money when there is a race series for them. So far historics in europe stop at 31 12 79
USA turn a blind eye to letting 80 81 82 cars run in events we do not!!
Australia has rolled forward to pre 87 cars so an 84 car in UK EEC has engine gearbox value at best is a cheap race car to an Ozzie
I have seen Gp 6 2 litre sports cars double past 3 years as we have 3 series in EEC to run them in but i do think many cars are over priced, and if you do not have enough young blood coming into historics prices will fall off as the new blood seek the next generation cars they watched as kids.
They will soon be wanting to buy and race thes ecars and move away from the earlier historic cars
However i have seen many cars over restored costing too much money and owners have to ask la la land prices to justify what they have done
GEEZ! You guys allow MUCH newer cars in to your Historics racing. :) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by driftwood
SOVERN:
PRE-1969 for all cars except...
Formula cars to 1972 AND
Seriously historically significant racers to 1979 in the Exhibition class. Gotta have serious history to get in that group.
On the other hand we have Tazio Nuvolari's Alfa Romeo P3 that he drove to the F1 championship against power houses Mercedes and Auto Union in 1932.
Yes, the owner races it hard and it sounds wonderful! He has no problem meeting the date restrictions :)
Monoposto 70 cut off 1979 but ive seen later cars run here n there
Look at HSR meetings
or the 2 litre sportscar series Sovren is not the only racing club in hysterical racing
yes some differnt clubs different yera cut offs BUT ynaks willdo bums in seats for some events so long as 20 guys dont want to ruin cars past the cut off dates
in EEc THAT willnot happen
no fia papers no racing
no crack test certs no racing in historic events
I think you are missing Kevan's main point. On that side of the pond they have established series for these cars. Ergo, there is somewhere to run them with others of the same ilk. We can run any year cars over here with several different groups. (This often challenges the concept of a vintage or historic car.) We don't have the same groupings here. They have a different demographic and geographic which must be considered.Quote:
Originally Posted by rickb99
We have very few established groups: HGP, F5000, Can-Am, come to mind. We are attempting to organize this aspect of the sport with Bobby Rahal's HMP (http://hmpseries.com/default.cfm) which hopes to coordinate and publicize much of the more interesting groups. (Although when I put out feelers for members to an atlantic based group to join this effort there was a deafening silence.)
As for prices, they can be stupidly over the top. Look at the asking prices for Lola 290 series sports racers. The prices of these cars also increased during the economic boom just like the collector cars and many guys bought high and are trying to recover their investment even though they are asking too much. The fact that it was easy to get loans for virtually anything back then didn't hurt and there were a lot of people who could not use good judgement and resist the temptation. The market will level the playing field.
Hang in there Paddy. Maybe check with Chuck Haines. He used to have several Frisbees. You'd have to pretty much restore whatever you'd get but that's part of the fun, no?