FIA-approved rain lights required starting 1/1/2024

Heard from a friend today that the SCCA will be requiring all formula cars and sports racing cars to have a rain light "meeting FIA Standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76" starting January 1, 2024. (See the April 2023 FastTrack). Sounds like a $200 non-optional upgrade to have a blinking rain light instead of a solid rain light.

What was the logic behind this decision? Were there issues specifically related to rain light visibility during one or more of the many recent wet Super Tour events that prompted it?

Jeff

File under "ways to drive up the cost of racing without adding value."

No. Do not like.

Having raced FV's for 40 years the introduction of the Afterburner rain light was to, me, a great advance in FINALLY being able to se another formula car in front of me before I ran into them. The original was I think in the $50-75 range and I forget what I paid for the new one a few years ago. The modern extremely bright LED's are very good at being seen thorough the rain and mist produced by the field of formula cars.

So if you don't mind finding the car in front of you by rear ending it I highly advice on a modern LED rain light.

Ed

I crew, don't drive, but I suspect that in the environment of highly reduced visibility, judging a safe passing maneuver is made harder, not easier, with those blinking distractions?

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Originally Posted by Ed Womer

Having raced FV's for 40 years the introduction of the Afterburner rain light was to, me, a great advance in FINALLY being able to se another formula car in front of me before I ran into them. The original was I think in the $50-75 range and I forget what I paid for the new one a few years ago. The modern extremely bright LED's are very good at being seen thorough the rain and mist produced by the field of formula cars.

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I agree that some people were running rain lights that were far too dim, and that the LED-based rain lights are superior to the old incandescent ones.

Trouble is, that's not what this rule says: it specifically requires an FIA standard 8874-2019, Technical List No. 76 light. Here's the list. Of the 12 lights on the list, at least several are specific to particular chassis (e.g., the one for the Porsche LMDh car). Of the rest, only three appear to be in volume production:

• Lifeline 421-100-011
• Cartek CK-LRS-15R
• Cartek CK-LRS-16C

Note that the Afterburner (which I also currently have, as do many others) isn't on this list, as it appears to be built to a previous FIA standard.

Jeff

I went back and read that April Fastrack and the rule says "meeting the specs of .." rather than "MUST BE CERTIFIED AS". I too, have an Afterburner and have no intention of replacing with a 'certified' version. These things cost an arm and a leg and tossing one away that 'meets spec' and is in working condition does not appear to be required from my reading.. thankfully.

Steve, FV80

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Originally Posted by Lotus7

I crew, don't drive, but I suspect that in the environment of highly reduced visibility, judging a safe passing maneuver is made harder, not easier, with those blinking distractions?

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The first priority is to actually know that there is a car in front of you, everything else is just part of a compromise.

Brian

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Originally Posted by Steve Davis

I went back and read that April Fastrack and the rule says "meeting the specs of .

Steve, FV80

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So if Tech challenges you, how do you plan to prove that your light meets the spec?

Brian

I do remember when USF4 mandated the new very expensive rain lights, and further mandated that they be mounted on the aft-most face of the rear crush structure; now that was cash flow :mad:

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Originally Posted by Hardingfv32

So if Tech challenges you, how do you plan to prove that your light meets the spec?

Brian

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I was thinking that if I had printed some really nice black on silver labels that read "Meets FIA Spec xxxx...."they would be quite popular. Not sure of the cost, but probably only a few dollars. :)

Eventually they will probably need to be sent back to the manufacturer every 5 years to be recertified.

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Originally Posted by Zonker

I was thinking that if I had printed some really nice black on silver labels that read "Meets FIA Spec xxxx...."they would be quite popular. Not sure of the cost, but probably only a few dollars. :)

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Put me down for a dozen

What a load of crap this is. Just make the rain light be a minimum number of lumens and be done with it. There are instruments to measure this that are not all that expensive.

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Originally Posted by Lotus7

I crew, don't drive, but I suspect that in the environment of highly reduced visibility, judging a safe passing maneuver is made harder, not easier, with those blinking distractions?

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If you have it as a very bright strobe, you won't have to worry about anyone even trying to get close enough to you to try a pass! :D:D

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Originally Posted by R. Pare

If you have it as a very bright strobe, you won't have to worry about anyone even trying to get close enough to you to try a pass! :D:D

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sounds similar to the rationale for not fixing a very leaky rear main seal LOL

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Originally Posted by Steve Demeter

What a load of crap this is. Just make the rain light be a minimum number of lumens and be done with it. There are instruments to measure this that are not all that expensive.

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Absolutely, let us meet the objective/purpose without screwing us over on supply and cost and rule technicality.

I fitted an intensely bright red LED light to my car, which actually has dual circuits.

It's just a round truck LED taillight - light and cheap (if not small). But DAMN is it bright. If anyone on here was behind me in Q1 at Mid-O last weekend, they should be able to attest to its brightness - and I'd love to get confirmation on that, BTW. It's definitely bright enough to light up my garage during daylight hours...

Oh, hey, so look, I was checking out once again the source of my light - a 40 LED round truck light, much more than most - and noticed they also have a strobe/flasher unit you can buy to add on to any light:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/puls...-strobe-module

Out of stock at the moment, but only $6, will be restocked. Or they have fancier answers, for twice as much.

My rain light was only $17:
https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehi...-mount-40-leds

Just to show that there's better, cheaper ways to meet the need without paying a tithe to FIA or SFI...

Wanna know how to keep down the cost of racing? Don't do stupid $hit like this...

In our usual Run Groups, it is the start when we are all bunched together that is the most treacherous. The spray from the tires basically obliterates the cars in front, the cars beside, any braking markers, where the grass and pavement meet, etc. The rain lights do not seem to have any effect during the start. Passing someone on track seemed to be easier visually. And we all know that mirrors are more than useless in the rain.

We always see more car impacts during the start during rain. Besides the visibility issues, we have the problem of the overly aggressive drivers who think they can win the race on the first lap. Better to survive the start and finish the race.

I can venture into a heretical thought. In CSR/DSR, we used to have a requirement for brake lights which was removed when the change to Prototypes was done. In a rain situation, the brake lights would be an added measure of visibility/safety. Heretical thought over.

I will admit to removing the low intensity combo brake/rain lights on my WF1 and installing an Afterburner.

Whee did car counts go again? Oh yeah, death by a thousand cuts....

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Originally Posted by Rick Kirchner

Where did car counts go again? Oh yeah, death by a thousand cuts....

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I can imagine that for at least a few budget racers, a $200 rain light requirement might be the last straw...:thumbsdown:

But at least the rain lights will look homogenous during wet Runoffs knock-out qualifying or heat races.

I'm too lazy to look at this very moment but what's the mandate for GT1 cars for rain lights or T1 or SM. Pretty confident to say that production based cars are fine running low wattage parking lights for wet usage. Like $10 at autozone. What is the problem here we're trying to solve? Did I miss some massive pileup at a major some where due to poor visibility?

Write the rule appropriately! ×× #/lumens for ×× #/ft. If tech wants to check they can measure. Just like is required for sound. ××/dB at ××/location.

It’s not the money per se, just don’t like people reaching into my pocket all the time.

The FIA spec is 14 pages. Mostly about the testing process. 1 page with the specs.
https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/762
under general.

That explains why meeting the standard is so expensive.

The letter proposing this change came into the GCR committee with visual evidence demonstrating how difficult the formula and prototype cars are to see in the spray with lights that we are currently using. This is nothing that anyone who has raced in the rain is not already aware of. There was a significant amount of debate on this topic at the CRB level, especially concerning the added cost which is a matter that is not taken lightly. In the end it was sent to the BOD as a recommended item because this has significant safety implications for everyone. A HANS device, helmet, safety belts, a certified fire system, etc... all protect the person who is employing them. If the other guy doesn't have or use those items it is likely not going to impact me directly; the rain light however does. One avoided crash or even contact in a formula or prototype car will pay for the light ten times over.

I don't like the fact that a seemingly simple light is so expensive but in the scheme of things it is a safety item that makes sense at least to me. Setting a rule that required a minimum lumens would permit us to be creative and save money, but it would be virtually impossible to police/enforce in the field.

This is a Recommended Item to the BOD so it is open for comment by members and up to them to vote up or down. If you have a strong opinion one way or the other you need to voice it through the letter system.

John

Guess 2023 may be my last year running a Formula Ford. Vintage racing here I come

My letter to the CRB is submitted.. no 'certified' lighting required - just better lights than SOME have with the GCR current pitiful requirement.

Steve, FV80

Small portable lumens meters are readily available and not very expensive. Surely the regions can afford to buy one (all regions must use the same meter) and just check each car in a few seconds in tech? Just set a lumens level that the light has to have at X feet.

Here's a bunch on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/lumen-meter/s?k=lumen+meter

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Originally Posted by Steve Davis

My letter to the CRB is submitted.. no 'certified' lighting required - just better lights than SOME have with the GCR current pitiful requirement.

Steve, FV80

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I just sent a letter to the CRB recommending the Afterburner FIA light or similar as a less expensive alternative.

The new (2024 car production) F4 spec requires 2 additional flashing LEDS to FIA spec mounted in the wing end plates in addition to the existing light.At the moment there is only one manufacturer that meets the spec for these and because of FIA testing its not cheap.
You need a standard but I would really hesitate to go down the FIA route in club racing. mandate an LED with x Lumens (same as old spec FIA perhaps). Do get rid of 25W incandescent brake lights. Have some common sense.

Not quite sure about the 'cash cow' comment in the thread - the Club does not make anything out of this
Phil

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Originally Posted by R. Pare

Small portable lumens meters are readily available and not very expensive. Surely the regions can afford to buy one (all regions must use the same meter) and just check each car in a few seconds in tech? Just set a lumens level that the light has to have at X feet.

Here's a bunch on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/lumen-meter/s?k=lumen+meter

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That looks like it could be an easy addition to the annual tech requirement! There are a lot of items on our cars that are never tech'd at an event, only checked that compliance was done on the annual; belts, fire bottles, kill switches, etc. Add this to the checklist.

Writing a letter now

Maybe a new market for counterfit FIA decals... ;)

In my opinion it should only be enforced if it rains. :) Many stay in the trailer because they are already experienced at repairs. :o Or, can't afford rain tires that just age out in storage.

If there is too much spray to see a traditional rain light, perhaps that means there are cars in front of you. ;)

BTW, there is nothing about F4 that needs to be adopted or copied by club racers.

^this

Just watched my video from Mid-O Q1, full wet without significant precip. I had the chance to look at a LOT of rain lights, as people found their way around me; the only thing slower on track than me was the cars spinning.

A full FIA flashing light on Mike Rupert's P2 was not substantially more visible than the solid LED rain light on the formula car (FA?) chasing him; both were completely lost in the spray when they hit standing water. Not much value for that $200 FIA tag.

If you want to watch for yourself - this should jump forward to 3:38 in the video when they go by...
https://youtu.be/M9fCsVYSg_I?t=218

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

^this

Just watched my video from Mid-O Q1, full wet without significant precip. I had the chance to look at a LOT of rain lights, as people found their way around me; the only thing slower on track than me was the cars spinning.

A full FIA flashing light on Mike Rupert's P2 was not substantially more visible than the solid LED rain light on the formula car (FA?) chasing him; both were completely lost in the spray when they hit standing water. Not much value for that $200 FIA tag.

If you want to watch for yourself - this should jump forward to 3:38 in the video when they go by...
https://youtu.be/M9fCsVYSg_I?t=218

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I would suggest not using this video with the BoD to try to prove your case. To my eye, there is a significant difference in visibility between Rupert's light and the formula car. Where there isn't, Rupert's car has already turned into a corner.

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

^this

Just watched my video from Mid-O Q1, full wet without significant precip. I had the chance to look at a LOT of rain lights, as people found their way around me; the only thing slower on track than me was the cars spinning.

A full FIA flashing light on Mike Rupert's P2 was not substantially more visible than the solid LED rain light on the formula car (FA?) chasing him; both were completely lost in the spray when they hit standing water. Not much value for that $200 FIA tag.

If you want to watch for yourself - this should jump forward to 3:38 in the video when they go by...
https://youtu.be/M9fCsVYSg_I?t=218

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FYI GCR 9.3.32.3 permits, but does not mandate, that the light strobe. It would not surprise me that the FA also had a light similar to the Rupert's car but that it was not in strobe mode. Both were significantly brighter than the LED unit (brand x) that I purchased from Pegasus.

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Originally Posted by Peter Olivola

I would suggest not using this video with the BoD to try to prove your case. To my eye, there is a significant difference in visibility between Rupert's light and the formula car. Where there isn't, Rupert's car has already turned into a corner.

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In the corner, perhaps... but compare on the straight immediately after they pass me, and drive through the water.

Note also that the visibility off-axis varies widely across the options, from only 10 degrees with some of the offerings from Pegasus to 30 degrees.

Incandescents, of course, are vastly superior in that regard... but would be completely illegal under the proposal.

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

In the corner, perhaps... but compare on the straight immediately after they pass me, and drive through the water.

Note also that the visibility off-axis varies widely across the options, from only 10 degrees with some of the offerings from Pegasus to 30 degrees.

Incandescents, of course, are vastly superior in that regard... but would be completely illegal under the proposal.

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As light disperses with the square of the distance, that Rupert's light is still more visible than the formula car argues against your position.

Fair... but the base supposition of the proponents seems to be to make the cars visible through the spray when they would otherwise not be... and seems to me that this provides direct proof against that assertion - cars with FIA lights will disappear into the spray just the same as any other.

I can easily overcome a lack of output with the addition of a second light, after all...

I'm not against mandating an effective rain light.

I'm not against mandating it strobe.

I AM against mandating the most expensive solution to the problem.

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

Fair... but the base supposition of the proponents seems to be to make the cars visible through the spray when they would otherwise not be... and seems to me that this provides direct proof against that assertion - cars with FIA lights will disappear into the spray just the same as any other.

I can easily overcome a lack of output with the addition of a second light, after all...

I'm not against mandating an effective rain light.

I'm not against mandating it strobe.

I AM against mandating the most expensive solution to the problem.

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I'm not advocating for the FIA lights, just not to use your video with the BoD to try to make your argument against.

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Originally Posted by 924RACR

I AM against mandating the most expensive solution to the problem.

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Agreed.