SVRA at Indy-Tow hook?

I am excited to be running next weekend just down the street at IMS. I have never run with SVRA so I've been reading the Supps pretty closely. For those of you running this event, did you read this?:

Tow Hooks/Straps
Every car for this event must have at least a Front Tow-Hook or on-board strap to facilitate at least flat towing should the need arise. Strap around the roll bar is NOT adequate.

I had not heard of such a thing for open-wheel cars and I thought maybe it was a mistake. I contacted the tech guy who said this rule was in place due to previous roll overs while towing. He went on to reply:

Solution- All the SVRA legal FF have a hook built on the frame, or the driver carries inside the car an axle tie down strip he waives at the corner worker doing the hook up to which he gives directions. Some cars have the strap zip tied in place.

I am looking forward to seeing these FF tow hooks, but meanwhile I am interested in comments from the Apex community on this rule.

I'm curious, how do you put a tow hook on a carbon fiber tub ?

[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][/FONT][/SIZE]I talked to Roger Linton about this. Please see corospondance below.
Jack
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Jack,

It is not a trivial matter......and has been a source of confusion.

We have had safety issues with flat towing from the roll bar (flipped cars and we had someone get whacked in the head when the strap gave way this year already).

What we are real asking.....is for the car owner to have a tow plan with an appropriate strap on board.

We have so many different cars and use different track personnel during the season.....so without a plan a beached car can cost everyone track time.

If your plan is to pull the nose, you have the right sized strap on board and you know where to attach (having the location marked would be better) then you are set.

Hopefully it will never happen to you.....but with a little fore thought and common sense you can get a safe tow, no damage to the car and limit the down time.

Regards,
Roger Linton


[/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]On 4/28/2014 8:58 AM, Jack Dinehart wrote:[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Roger,[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I know that a tow hoop is required for all cars but I run a F200 and it has an aluminum nose box so it makes it difficult to attach anything under the car. Also it has a 7/8" ride height that complicates matters. I also run SCCA events with this car and towing is usually done with a strap around the roll bar hoop when needed. The strap is usually carried in the car beside the seat at all times. If this is not acceptable I could remove the nose and tow from the frame. This is easy to do because there is only 2 clips holding it in and only takes about a minute. I am sorry about bothering you with such a trivial matter but I want to make sure that I have no problems at tech.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Best Regards [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Jack Dinehart[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]95 Van Dieman F200[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]SVRA# 8547[/FONT][/SIZE]

I guess a lot of cars will not be running or they will reverse their stupid supplemental rule.
We're not planning on anything for the Surtees, the Cooper, etc.

The best method is a rope tow, around the roll hoop with the driver holding it. If it looks like the tow vehicle has made a turn too tight, he/she can let go before they are rolled over.

Sorry about the mess. I guess that is what happens if you cut & paste. The response is there if you sort through it.
Jack

Keith I agree. The one time I needed a tow that is exactly what I did.
Jack

I think that some sort of rig may need to be constructed. I will be driving my Cooper F3 with SVRA...

I have been trying to think outside the box to be able to tow...Some sort of yoke between the 2 upper A arms...after the body work is removed...I suppose that towing backwards is vorboten.

A tow dolly would be easiest, but wouldn't fit in the car!

Leo

Has anybody actually confirmed this with SVRA? Seems a rather extra-ordinary tow-hook requirement.. For decades we've (RMVR) towed ALL formula cars with a tow strap wrapped ONCE around the roll bar with about 18" left over and then wrap that 18" end TWICE (I think it is) around the strap going to the truck. A driver can easily hold on to that wrapping and let loose should the need arise.

I have been having an email chat with Bob Williams, their safety guy. Bobs response is in blue:

Do the open wheel cars need a tow ring?Most of the major tracks we attend have had some difficulty (pull overs) by attaching tow ropes to the top of the roll bar. One driver received a snapped nylon face whack when the rope broke. Yes you need a tow hook, and or some logical solution we can generate in the tech line as you pass through your inspection. Often times it is something as simple as just having an axel strap with d-rings in each end held up in your hand as you are approached by the tow truck. Quick verbal directions because you planned ahead will suffice. Discussion during Tech. It will be no problem if you have worked out a solution that you like!

I see a potential for some serious Rube Goldbergness going on here.

Cheers,
Leo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snakedriver

I see a potential for some serious Rube Goldbergness going on here

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..and spare parts floating around in the cockpits...

[QUOTE=Snakedriver;433408]I have been having an email chat with Bob Williams, their safety guy. Bobs response is in blue:

major tracks we attend have had some difficulty (pull overs) by attaching tow ropes to the top of the roll bar. One driver received a snapped nylon face whack when the rope broke. Yes you need a tow hook,


Sound like bad tow truck drive issues to me. Not knowing how to properly tow and go around corners, bad straps.

I agree. One think I will not do is turn my historical/vintage Cooper in to a contemporary car.

I have been thinking of perhaps a tow ring that runs around the nose of the connecting at the upper A arm pivot points. I think I would only need about 3 feet of tubing and maybe some flat stock to make a clevis mount for the suspension bolt to go through. That way it can be removed easily.

Actually about 3 feet with out the nose cone...maybe 5 1/2 to 6 feet to make it around the nose. I assume that it should be below the longitudinal CG.

Leo

I would not seriously consider attaching a tow strap to suspension pick up points. Most are not designed for the loads in the direction that towing will put on them. The top of the roll bar is the most sturdy attachment point and the car driver needs to make sure not to cut corners too sharply and get the tow strap angles severely. Try to stay as directly behind the tow vehicle as possible. And as far as getting a face whack from a flying strap, what in the world would anyone be thinking to be on a flat tow without helmet and face protection in place.

Steve, I think my humorous attempt didn't make from brain to text very well.

The vision I had was something like a push bar mounted in front of the nose cone...

Leo

I get it sort of like the one on the back of a sprint car.

I was brainstalling...Thanks Steve. I was thinking of all sorts of vehicles...but you hit it on the head.

Kinda like the old school field goal kickers helmet.

Leo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve Demeter

I would not seriously consider attaching a tow strap to suspension pick up points. Most are not designed for the loads in the direction that towing will put on them. The top of the roll bar is the most sturdy attachment point and the car driver needs to make sure not to cut corners too sharply and get the tow strap angles severely. Try to stay as directly behind the tow vehicle as possible. And as far as getting a face whack from a flying strap, what in the world would anyone be thinking to be on a flat tow without helmet and face protection in place.

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and on top of that, the chances of crushing a brake line are high if they wrap the strap over the wrong arm…..

Pulled this from the VARAC\CASC regs

18.6.7 It is required that all cars without an exposed roll bar shall have a towing eye or strap
front and rear that do not dangerously protrude from the bodywork when the car is
racing. These towing eyes or straps shall be easily accessible without removal or
manipulation of bodywork or other panels. Towing eye minimum ID shall be 2 inches.
FOR CASC-OR SANCTIONED EVENTS SEE APPENDIX E

CASC-OR Appendix P 28.0 Towing Eyes/Straps
28.1 Installation
All cars without an exposed roll bar shall have a towing eye or strap, accessible from
front and rear, that does not dangerously protrude from the bodywork when a car is
racing, to be used for hauling the car. These towing devices shall be welded or bolted to
the frame, roll cage or other significant structure.
a) Welds for towing devices shall be of the same quality as required on the main roll
cage/hoop.
b) Tow eyes that are bolted shall be attached to the frame or other significant structure.
The minimum acceptable bolts shall be SAE Grade 5 of 3/8 in diameter.
c) Tow straps shall come from a recognized manufacturer and shall be designed for
motorsports application.
d) Wire cables are not acceptable.
28.2 Access
These towing eyes or straps shall be easily accessible and visible without removal or
manipulation of bodywork or other panels. Towing eye minimum inside diameter shall be
two (2) inches.
Cars with tow points not clearly visible shall:
a) have the tow point marked with high visibility paint VARAC RULES AND REGULATIONS
b) have a red arrow clearly indicating the location of the tow point
c) be within 12 inches of the rear or front of the car or be otherwise readily accessible,
e.g. centrally located on the roof or attached to the roll bar.

For formula and sports racing cars that have bodywork covering the main roll hoop, there shall
be an access hole allowing the car to be lifted by a hook or strap.

Dave coughlin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kea

I guess a lot of cars will not be running or they will reverse their stupid supplemental rule.

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Yeah, this is a truly dumb move. Hopefully someone will realize this is not a good idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kea

The best method is a rope tow, around the roll hoop with the driver holding it. If it looks like the tow vehicle has made a turn too tight, he/she can let go before they are rolled over.

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And this is how it has been done for decades.

Think of all the F1 cars, CART cars, F-5000 cars, F-Atlantics, F-Super Vees and a host of others. None of the sanctioning bodies those cars run under required installing a tow ring, or carrying some sort of temporary strap in the cockpit. They towed the cars just as you described via the roll bar. But now, someone at SVRA has decided they know better than all those other groups and decades of experience?

Talk about a knee-jerk reaction.

Surely this is all a joke right?!

Personally I want the option of being able to let go of the tow rope! Once with my atlantic I had an over enthusiastic attendant turn in the dirction of a very rough return road at VIR. An in field short cut. The DB4 does not equal a 4 wheeler so I let go of the tow rope rather than destroy the under belly of the car.

Its to easy and has worked for decades... sound tow rope and wear gloves plus helmet. Another example of someone trying to protect idiots from themselves and potentially making life difficult for the rest of us. :confused:

Reminds me of the 'fail safe' quick release tow hooks in the nose of gliders-sailplanes. Took a friend's wife up for a little sightseeing one afternoon on aero-tow. Got up to 2500' agl & pulled release. No go. Told gal in rear seat to pull hard on the big red t-handle. No go. I said, "let's do this together on 3." No go. Glider had no radio so gave the appropriate waggle to tell the tow pilot "no release". He was a crop duster by trade. Not really up to speed on glider to tow signals. So, he continued to climb to 5000' agl. Assumed I wanted ez glide back to airport. I kept waggeling the glider to no avail. He got po'd & decided to make a kamikaze nose dive to to tell me to 'release jackass' !

Fortunately, the dive brakes kept me tight on the rope. After diving a couple of thousand feet, the tow pilot remembered the 'can't release' signal I was giving him. He leveled off & released on his end.

My passenger & I continued on our sightseeing flight & landed 'high & long' so as not to snag the trees at the end of the runway.

Even as a newbie, I know enough to only use a flat tow strap around the roll bar. Ya gotta hold tight when they're pulling thru 100' of soft soil ;)

Seems a no-brainer....

Mandatory tow instructions to all tow operators & mandatory flat straps on board all tow rigs.

This tow-strap issue turned out to be no problem at tech. I put a couple of tie-downs and a d-ring in a heavy zip-lock bag and showed it to the inspector; that's all he needed to see. A buddy did the same thing for his car and the inspector made him write "TOW" on a couple of pieces of orange tape and stick them on the wishbones. Seemed kinda dumb to me, but not a problem. And what a great weekend!

It's a good thing the SCCA doesn't require this tow system because there's no way I'd ever be towed without the ability to release the strap myself. I know of several incidents where the tow truck has made turns too tight for a formula car to follow without realizing it. Those chain link gate post just don't move.;)